Russ Brandon and others...

[K-9]

So if you knew nothing about mechanical engineering and suddenly found yourself the owner of one of the biggest companies in the world you wouldn't want a veteran successful proven owner of this type of company at your hip to help you determine what's best for the company? Or would just just listen to the CEO and listen to the head of the engineers and maybe someone in the "marketing" department and make your best guess? You're plan about the GM being the guy might work but our current GM doesn't seem to have that pull with the owners to be THE GUY who makes football decisions. And it's is fact that Russ was involed in the Rex hiring, so to say he has no juice anymore football wise is kinda foolish when it's a documented fact that he still has the owners ear, and was promoted in their entire organization for god's sake.

 

You're right that many decisions are made by a convergence of many voices, but in sports that doesn't seem to work to well. Sure as **** hasn't worked for the Buffalo Bills for decades. There needs to be someone with "The Buck Stops Here" plaque literally at his desk.

 

How anyone could look at the productivity of this organization for the past 20 years or so and say that it's working and the remnants of the old guard were doing fine, no reason to boot them out, truly is something I can't understand.

 

A - How's that been working out so far for the Bills. Couldn't care about the other teams cause I'm a fan of the Billls.

 

B - The teams PR also said Russ has no say in football decisions anymore yet was involved in hiring the first head coach of the new ownership. Generally speaking he n any business what the businesses PR team (and governments too haha) say is probably not the truth and maybe, at best, has a sliver of truth mixed in there somewhere. Rex THANKED Russ at his hiring press conference.

Then you should be blaming the Pegulas for asking for Brandon's input and secondly, for making the decision to hire Ryan. It was theirs and theirs alone. That's where the buck stops and there was NOTHING Brandon or anyone else was going to say to dissuade the Pegulas once they made up their minds no matter who it was they wanted to hire. And the idea that a new owner WOULDN'T consult with an experienced team CEO is ludicrous; makes absolutely ZERO sense. Again, that's on the Pegulas so maybe you need to direct your frustration in their direction.

Edited December 11, 2016 by K-9

[pepsicat17]

The best owners let the people they pay do the work for them and don't meddle in what they don't for the most part. The owners look at the big picture, the next decade of what the team is to become.

 

The hiring of Rex was actually one of those let's listen to all about this decisions. The Pegulas, again for the tenth time in this threat alone, have admitted they know little about football and need/needed help to get up to speed. My point is that Russ is not the guy to even. E in the room while the conversation is occurring. Everything he has ever done on this football team, operations wise, at best has been average. He dosen't know squat about football operations (successful ones I mean) but can't you imagine him drooling at the marketing $$$ of having Rex Ryan as the head coach? Do you think he even had a though about what would happen on the field if that hire is made.

 

Also the hiring of the head coach should never have been the Pegulas to make, it should have been the GM or president of FOOTBALL operations decision (that is where the plaque should be).

 

Let's agree to disagree, all this typing with caps is a pain in the ass lol and neither of us is gonna change each others mind. You're have some good points I just disagree in a fundamental way about how a team should be structured and run, especially with completely green owners. Good discussion though and no personal attacks, very refreshing!

[Nihilarian]

The belief that a football czar would remedy the problems hindering this franchise makes little sense to me. All organizations have their own football czar: it's called the GM. Adding another layer of authority to challenge the decisions of the GM only creates more conflict and tension within the franchise.

 

I don't understand your fixation on Russ Brandon being the bogeyman behind the curtain who is sidetracking this franchise. That isn't the case now even if it was in the past, and that is a debatable issue.

 

Terry and Kim Pegula are new to the football business. They are not shrinking violets. If they want they can call anyone in the business and solicit input from sources outside the organization. Without a doubt as new owners they made mistakes that they wouldn't make now. In my opinion the biggest mistake Kim made was in jumping the gun in the hiring of their first HC.

 

As I and many others have said what mostly ails this team has little to do with the structure of the organization and much more to do with elevating the talent level at the qb position. While you and so many others are focusing your attention in the men wearing the suits the real issue is finding the right person to take the snaps. That more than anything else will alter the negative tenor of the conversations dealing with this franchise and dramatically change the collective pessimistic attitude toward this franchise.

Okay, the first issue with the hiring of a czar. First off he would have more power than the GM as he would be equivalent to a team president of football operations. Bill Polian would have been that czar had he not turned down the job after Marrone walked away and Kyle Orton retired as he said the job went from a light task to heavy lifting at 72 years old. Bill Polian has stated he loves the Buffalo Bills as they gave him his first shot at GM would like to see them regain some glory.

 

Another possible problem was that Marrone on his way out the door slammed the status quo in Buffalo by telling Polian the old guard was trash talking him and probably in fear of losing their jobs. Polian had said one of the first things he would do was to hire ex-Charger GM AJ Smith and between those two they could have really straightened out the entire football side. Trainers, scouts, doctors etc.

 

While so many fans are enamored with current GM Doug Whaley the simple fact is he was a rookie GM as was Buddy Nix, Marv Levy and he made his share of mistakes in his time as GM. Plus, he keeps making them by not upgrading that RT, S, FS and WR positions in the last offseason, among other things. Tyrod Taylor and Richie Incognito were not his choice but rather Rex Ryan asking the team to bring them in....otherwise the team would still be looking for a solid LG and starting QB.

 

Russ Brandon. Some known Bills insiders have stated the man was the GM after Marv Levy retired and has since made many football decisions that a few fans here say he hasn't. Either way, the fact remains that he is still advising these new owners just like he did with the late owner. He was the one who gave these new owners the idea that they had the necessary football acumen to choose their own head coach as he told them "they would know who to hire after interviewing all the candidates". Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

 

The very last thing this fan base needed was the new owner getting started in meddling with the football decisions like the last owner. What's nex for Pegula that as he sits in the draft room he will make the choices on certain players like Ralph Wilson used to do? The Org chart reads Rex Ryan, Doug Whaley, Russ Brandon all report to terry Pegula. When it should be that on the football side of the team everyone reports to the GM and he reports to the owner.

 

Lastly, it's completely foolish to think that a franchise QB is what's going to fix everything that's wrong with this team. I give you the 2013 Atlanta Falcons who had a franchise in QB Matt Ryan who played 16 games and 4-12. Besides, Tyrod Taylor isn't as bad as so many make him out to be.

 

This team needs better offensive scouts to find that elusive franchise QB, WR, linemen! The team needs better trainers so the players stay healthy the entire season more often, better doctors who won't put their approval on injury prone or injured players, a better GM and an experienced man at the top to tie it all together. Nothing really changes until the owner comprehends he doesn't have the needed knowledge as to who to hire as his GM, HC no matter if there is a baseball / marketing guy assisting him.

[Just in Atlanta]

And the source behind our lack of an elite QB?

 

Yes, and that "constant source" would be our total lack of an elite QB, no matter the resources devoted to finding one. We've invested high pick, medium picks, and low picks over the years since Kelly and NOT ONE of them panned out.

 

And the search continues.

[JohnC]

Okay, the first issue with the hiring of a czar. First off he would have more power than the GM as he would be equivalent to a team president of football operations. Bill Polian would have been that czar had he not turned down the job after Marrone walked away and Kyle Orton retired as he said the job went from a light task to heavy lifting at 72 years old. Bill Polian has stated he loves the Buffalo Bills as they gave him his first shot at GM would like to see them regain some glory.

 

Another possible problem was that Marrone on his way out the door slammed the status quo in Buffalo by telling Polian the old guard was trash talking him and probably in fear of losing their jobs. Polian had said one of the first things he would do was to hire ex-Charger GM AJ Smith and between those two they could have really straightened out the entire football side. Trainers, scouts, doctors etc.

 

While so many fans are enamored with current GM Doug Whaley the simple fact is he was a rookie GM as was Buddy Nix, Marv Levy and he made his share of mistakes in his time as GM. Plus, he keeps making them by not upgrading that RT, S, FS and WR positions in the last offseason, among other things. Tyrod Taylor and Richie Incognito were not his choice but rather Rex Ryan asking the team to bring them in....otherwise the team would still be looking for a solid LG and starting QB.

 

Russ Brandon. Some known Bills insiders have stated the man was the GM after Marv Levy retired and has since made many football decisions that a few fans here say he hasn't. Either way, the fact remains that he is still advising these new owners just like he did with the late owner. He was the one who gave these new owners the idea that they had the necessary football acumen to choose their own head coach as he told them "they would know who to hire after interviewing all the candidates". Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

 

The very last thing this fan base needed was the new owner getting started in meddling with the football decisions like the last owner. What's nex for Pegula that as he sits in the draft room he will make the choices on certain players like Ralph Wilson used to do? The Org chart reads Rex Ryan, Doug Whaley, Russ Brandon all report to terry Pegula. When it should be that on the football side of the team everyone reports to the GM and he reports to the owner.

 

Lastly, it's completely foolish to think that a franchise QB is what's going to fix everything that's wrong with this team. I give you the 2013 Atlanta Falcons who had a franchise in QB Matt Ryan who played 16 games and 4-12. Besides, Tyrod Taylor isn't as bad as so many make him out to be.

 

This team needs better offensive scouts to find that elusive franchise QB, WR, linemen! The team needs better trainers so the players stay healthy the entire season more often, better doctors who won't put their approval on injury prone or injured players, a better GM and an experienced man at the top to tie it all together. Nothing really changes until the owner comprehends he doesn't have the needed knowledge as to who to hire as his GM, HC no matter if there is a baseball / marketing guy assisting him.

Ralph Wilson was the prior owner of the Bills. He hired Levy to take over the operation. That was a disastrous decision that set the this middling organization further back. If the owner wants to make a decision, smart or not, as the owner that is his prerogative. It was Ralph who hired Nix. Was that the best hire? Of course not. Mediocrity breeds mediocrity. Again, if the owner wants to make a decision, smart or not, as the owner that is his prerogative. Whatever football authority Brandon had at the end of the Wilson era was not due to him conniving for power at the expense of an unsuspecting employee. There was a vacuum in a dysfunctional organization and he was doing whatever he had to do to keep the organization functioning.

 

The Pegulas' spent $1.4 Billion to buy the team in an auction. Kim Pegula was smitten with the fast talking Rex. Whaley and Brandon were in the room. Kim wanted to hire Rex and she did. That was her decision. Again, if an owner wants to make a decision, smart or not, as the owner that is his/her prerogative.

 

If you want to list the weaknesses on the Bills' roster to point out its weaknesses then go ahead and make a point that has little meaning. In the cap system all teams have weaknesses, that includes the Pats, the Cowboys or whatever team that you want to examine.

 

If you want to persuade me that Rex is not an asset then you are wasting your verbiage for the simple reason I have publicly stated that position when he was hired.

 

You can put all your energy in designing whatever management system you want. Bring in all the consultants you want to bring in to advise you on management systems. As far as I am concerned you are chasing the wrong dog. What mostly ails this franchise is the same issue that ails most mediocre franchises i.e. a lack of a credible qb in a sport where having a credible qb is the primary basis for success.

[K-9]

And the source behind our lack of an elite QB?

 

Rarity, availability, opportunity, and lack of conviction on others that turned out to be better than their scouting reports indicated.

[Nihilarian]

Ralph Wilson was the prior owner of the Bills. He hired Levy to take over the operation. That was a disastrous decision that set the this middling organization further back. If the owner wants to make a decision, smart or not, as the owner that is his prerogative. It was Ralph who hired Nix. Was that the best hire? Of course not. Mediocrity breeds mediocrity. Again, if the owner wants to make a decision, smart or not, as the owner that is his prerogative. Whatever football authority Brandon had at the end of the Wilson era was not due to him conniving for power at the expense of an unsuspecting employee. There was a vacuum in a dysfunctional organization and he was doing whatever he had to do to keep the organization functioning.

 

The Pegulas' spent $1.4 Billion to buy the team in an auction. Kim Pegula was smitten with the fast talking Rex. Whaley and Brandon were in the room. Kim wanted to hire Rex and she did. That was her decision. Again, if an owner wants to make a decision, smart or not, as the owner that is his/her prerogative.

 

If you want to list the weaknesses on the Bills' roster to point out its weaknesses then go ahead and make a point that has little meaning. In the cap system all teams have weaknesses, that includes the Pats, the Cowboys or whatever team that you want to examine.

 

If you want to persuade me that Rex is not an asset then you are wasting your verbiage for the simple reason I have publicly stated that position when he was hired.

 

You can put all your energy in designing whatever management system you want. Bring in all the consultants you want to bring in to advise you on management systems. As far as I am concerned you are chasing the wrong dog. What mostly ails this franchise is the same issue that ails most mediocre franchises i.e. a lack of a credible qb in a sport where having a credible qb is the primary basis for success.

Read this! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/

 

Clearly, you missed the part of my last post that mentioned that it was Russ Brandon who induced these new owners into thinking that they have the needed NFL football acumen needed to hire the team's next coach. It should have been Doug Whaley's choice as he is the GM and instead these new owners and Russ Brandon were all involved in the hiring process.

 

You also missed the part where known elite franchise QB Atlanta Falcon Matt Ryan fell on his face during the 2013 season for many reasons and the team ended with a 4-12 record. Having an elite franchise QB playing a full 16 games doesn't ensure a winning season and that goes for Buffalo too. This franchise has more problems than just a not so great QB, as they have not so good trainers, scouts, doctors, coaches and most of all a not so good GM. The team entered the season with several known weak positions over the team and as injuries came about they showed glaringly.

 

Yes, all team have and deal with injuries. the difference is the dropoff in talent between the Buffalo Bills starters and backup players in many positions is far, far unacceptable. Receivers, Safeties, RT among others. This is on the GM, scouts. We agree that the coaching staff isn't very good and seem to disagree on the other parts of the team.

 

I'm with others who want to see the whole thing blown up with real NFL experienced football people making all the football decisions.

[JohnC]

Read this! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/

 

Clearly, you missed the part of my last post that mentioned that it was Russ Brandon who induced these new owners into thinking that they have the needed NFL football acumen needed to hire the team's next coach. It should have been Doug Whaley's choice as he is the GM and instead these new owners and Russ Brandon were all involved in the hiring process.

 

You also missed the part where known elite franchise QB Atlanta Falcon Matt Ryan fell on his face during the 2013 season for many reasons and the team ended with a 4-12 record. Having an elite franchise QB playing a full 16 games doesn't ensure a winning season and that goes for Buffalo too. This franchise has more problems than just a not so great QB, as they have not so good trainers, scouts, doctors, coaches and most of all a not so good GM. The team entered the season with several known weak positions over the team and as injuries came about they showed glaringly.

 

Yes, all team have and deal with injuries. the difference is the dropoff in talent between the Buffalo Bills starters and backup players in many positions is far, far unacceptable. Receivers, Safeties, RT among others. This is on the GM, scouts. We agree that the coaching staff isn't very good and seem to disagree on the other parts of the team.

 

I'm with others who want to see the whole thing blown up with real NFL experienced football people making all the football decisions.

We simply are going to respectfully disagree on the best course of action to take in moving forward. Blowing up the operation to satisfy the frustrations accumulated over two decades of failure may on the short term give you a brief sugar rush. However,as far as I am concerned it's like running a marathon and at three quarter point you have a pebble in your running shoe preventing you from competing in the race. You would want to stop racing and go back to the starting line where you would remove the immobilizing pebble. Isn't it better to fix whatever problems you have at the point that you are at rather than going backwards in order to move forward?

 

The Bills have issues from a roster standpoint that go beyond the qb position. But as I stated in a prior posting so do all teams! Fixing the main problem at the qb position isn't going to fix all problems but without a doubt it would be the most meaningful and constructive change.

 

For me the Rex hire was a very damaging hire. Not only has his hiring had a major negative repercussion on the defense but most damaging is that he brought his archaic approach to the game, especially on offense, that makes it difficult to compete in the NFL of today. Dinosaurs are outdated and should not be allowed near a sideline, even if they are very quotable and wear cool sunglasses.

Edited December 11, 2016 by JohnC

[fridge]

We simply are going to respectfully disagree on the best course of action to take in moving forward. Blowing up the operation to satisfy the frustrations accumulated over two decades of failure may on the short term give you a brief sugar rush. However,as far as I am concerned it's like running a marathon and at three quarter point you have a pebble in your running shoe preventing you from competing in the race. You would want to stop racing and go back to the starting line where you would remove the immobilizing pebble. Isn't it better to fix whatever problems you have at the point that you are at rather than going backwards in order to move forward?

 

The Bills have issues from a roster standpoint that go beyond the qb position. But as I stated in a prior posting so do all teams! Fixing the main problem at the qb position isn't going to fix all problems but without a doubt it would be the most meaningful and constructive change.

 

For me the Rex hire was a very damaging hire. Not only has his hiring had a major negative repercussion on the defense but most damaging is that he brought his archaic approach to the game, especially on offense, that makes it difficult to compete in the NFL of today. Dinosaurs are outdated and should not be allowed near a sideline, even if they are very quotable and wear cool sunglasses.

 

I don't get it, man. You're basically saying, "we'll see what happens" as if it hasn't been 17 years of the exact same. You're expecting different results for some reason. You're also giving them a pass on the lack of QB like it's some mythical creature. Rare as it may be, it's not once every 30 seasons rare.

[May Day 10]

We simply are going to respectfully disagree on the best course of action to take in moving forward. Blowing up the operation to satisfy the frustrations accumulated over two decades of failure may on the short term give you a brief sugar rush.

This doesnt represent my viewpoint at all. I have been having this identical circular discussion for nearly a decade now. It isnt a mindless "17 years someone's gotta go". The organization has resisted (what i believe are) the necessary changes. It is at the top... and it is bringing in someone from the outside. They have not done this, and continue to never play a meaningful late season game, let alone a playoff game.

Edited December 11, 2016 by May Day 10

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9-7, 8-8, ?-? is not futility - they are at the level of a wild card team right now. Yes I know your a wildcard team when your actually IN I get it, but so much in the NFL is schedule dependent. We act like Whaley's teams have gone 2-14, 3-13, 2-14

 

they are going to finish 10-6 this year

Shocker. WRONG AGAIN

[JohnC]

 

I don't get it, man. You're basically saying, "we'll see what happens" as if it hasn't been 17 years of the exact same. You're expecting different results for some reason. You're also giving them a pass on the lack of QB like it's some mythical creature. Rare as it may be, it's not once every 30 seasons rare.

You are grossly misstating my position. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be changes. Hiring a new HC is not an insignificant action. However, I strongly believe that dismissing the GM and rebuilding the front office and coaching staff will set this franchise further back. Not having a qb who can function at a reasonable level is first and foremost the issue that needs to be addressed. There are no quick and perfect solutions to that issue. But there should be qbs that are on the market capable enough to manage an offense at a level that allows this team a reasonable chance to compete. Maybe a qb like McCarron who is reasonably accurate and can read defenses might be a passable option for the short term.

[fridge]

You are grossly misstating my position. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be changes. Hiring a new HC is not an insignificant action. However, I strongly believe that dismissing the GM and rebuilding the front office and coaching staff will set this franchise further back. Not having a qb who can function at a reasonable level is first and foremost the issue that needs to be addressed. There are no quick and perfect solutions to that issue. But there should be qbs that are on the market capable enough to manage an offense at a level that allows this team a reasonable chance to compete. Maybe a qb like McCarron who is reasonably accurate and can read defenses might be a passable option for the short term.

 

How so? You think we should hire a new HC but have no problem letting Brandon (a guy who's been running or heavily involved in the last 4 HC searches) stick around to hire him.

 

Also, you want AJ McCarron? What? He would be our QB3 if he were on our team right now. Get out of here with this crap.

[K-9]

 

How so? You think we should hire a new HC but have no problem letting Brandon (a guy who's been running or heavily involved in the last 4 HC searches) stick around to hire him.

 

Also, you want AJ McCarron? What? He would be our QB3 if he were on our team right now. Get out of here with this crap.

The hiring decision rests entirely on the Pegulas. Brandon being involved in the process is not the same as Brandon doing the hiring.

[JohnC]

 

How so? You think we should hire a new HC but have no problem letting Brandon (a guy who's been running or heavily involved in the last 4 HC searches) stick around to hire him.

 

Also, you want AJ McCarron? What? He would be our QB3 if he were on our team right now. Get out of here with this crap.

I challenge you to find a comment from me where I promoted the idea that Brandon should be instrumental in the hiring of the next HC?

[fridge]

The hiring decision rests entirely on the Pegulas. Brandon being involved in the process is not the same as Brandon doing the hiring.

 

Prove it.

 

Edit: Also...I said Brandon would be involved. Don't put words into my mouth.

I challenge you to find a comment from me where I promoted the idea that Brandon should be instrumental in the hiring of the next HC?

 

Sorry if I misinterpreted your posts. It seemed to read that you were in favor of Brandon moving forward with his current role, which has also included making sure Rex Ryan doesn't leave the building during the previous HC search.

Edited December 11, 2016 by fridge

[JohnC]

 

Prove it.

 

Edit: Also...I said Brandon would be involved. Don't put words into my mouth.

 

Sorry if I misinterpreted your posts. It seemed to read that you were in favor of Brandon moving forward with his current role, which has also included making sure Rex Ryan doesn't leave the building during the previous HC search.

You have very much misinterpreted my many posts on Brandon. His niche is the business side of the operation. That's where he does a good job and that is where he belongs. I have never said otherwise.

[fridge]

You have very much misinterpreted my many posts on Brandon. His niche is the business side of the operation. That's where he does a good job and that is where he belongs. I have never said otherwise.

 

Yeah but you're living in fantasy land. He's not going to relinquish any power and will continue to be involved with football decisions. I don't think this thread would exist at all if it was clear Brandon is simply a business side-of-things guy.

[Rico]

 

Yeah but you're living in fantasy land. He's not going to relinquish any power and will continue to be involved with football decisions. I don't think this thread would exist at all if it was clear Brandon is simply a business side-of-things guy.

Agreed. If Pegs (without any input from Russ) hired a real GM to run the team (without any input from Russ) and the new GM got rid of everyone else who touched any part of the last 17 years on the football side, not too many would care about Russ still being there.

[K-9]

 

Prove it.

 

Edit: Also...I said Brandon would be involved. Don't put words into my mouth.

 

Not putting words in your mouth asyou said, and I quote, from post #220:

 

How so? You think we should hire a new HC but have no problem letting Brandon (a guy who's been running or heavily involved in the last 4 HC searches) stick around to hire him.

 

Sure sound like you said Brandon was going to be allowed to "stick around" and "hire him." Or did you misquote yourself?

 

And you really need proof that team owners are the ones who hire coaches? Really?