kasper13 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Sometimes you just have to move on. Signing Pat Williams for $5 million a year would be senseless. I thought he wanted to stay here no matter what. Guess not. Somebody should tell Pat that Buffalo Bills who leave to go play elsewhere for a few more dollars never do well. Just ask Marcellus Wiley, Peerless Price, Sam Cowart, Jeff Burris, Nate Odomes and all the rest. The money will be well spent elsewhere anyways. The loyalty to the almighty dollar rules sports these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 I'm all for being fair to Pat Williams, but 5 million bucks a year? Thats twice as much as Sam Adams is making, and I'd be willing to say that more teams fear Sam Adams then Pat Williams. I think Pat's demands are completely outrageous, and he's going to sacrifice winning games for more money. I'd love it if he stayed, but not for that price. I actually want to see the Bills pick up some more help for the O-Line and an upgrade at TE...something that could never happen if we re-sign Pat Williams at that contract demand he has. To me, I'd rather lose Pat Williams and hand it off to one of our backups then make no upgrades to the offense this offseason. 252300[/snapback] Whoah... I wouldn't sign him for 5 mil per year either BGIM. I see now that you are taking the little agent media plant literally. That is merely the upper end or ceiling of negotiations as I am seeing it. Very typical posturing that goes on amongst all agents worth their salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 and has stated he is willing to give the team the "hometown discount" when it comes time to talk turkey. 252293[/snapback] Easy to say, but when it comes time to actualy do it I'd need some PROOF before I blame TD for not getting this done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 One of the good things TD does, is drafting players early to replace veterans. That way when a Winfield or a Phat Pat are asking the big bucks, he has a backup guy to fall back on. Only way I can justify paying Pat that much money, is if he is some sort of locker room presences. The type of guy that everybody rallies around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 One of the good things TD does, is drafting players early to replace veterans. That way when a Winfield or a Phat Pat are asking the big bucks, he has a backup guy to fall back on. Only way I can justify paying Pat that much money, is if he is some sort of locker room presences. The type of guy that everybody rallies around. 252339[/snapback] Many of us are quite aware of what TD typically does. I am in full support of TD and have been during his time here. Nowhere am I saying sign him for 5 mil. As I said, this may be just the beginning of negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Right. I hope I am right in that TD follows the Warren Buffet mantra of value investing. Phat Pat is good but he never deserved 5 mil at any time and certainly not now. He is good but hardly irreplacable. Takeo, Lee evans, Willis and JP and Clement are worthy of high compensation. The rest have to keep an eye on the draft and free agent list. Is my list too short? 252314[/snapback] >>>>Is my list too short?<<<< Well, you could have added CV and Fletcher, but your list is too long because of the fact that JP is on it. He is already "worth high compensation," huh? Well, I guess he DID show good form in the hospital last season. Mind boggling I tell you. As for PW, I never truly believed this "hometown discount" thing in full. PW is good, but 5 mil per season is WAY too much. As far as others calling him the anchor of the defense, etc., sorry, not close. There is one superstar out there, and his last name is Spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soljc Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Many of us are quite aware of what TD typically does. I am in full support of TD and have been during his time here. Nowhere am I saying sign him for 5 mil. As I said, this may be just the beginning of negotiations. 252364[/snapback] I'm all for giving TD the time and resources to lead this team, but he hasn't shown me much in 4 years, and I don't see much happening in year 5. How long do we wait for success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 5M/yr for a guy 32 years old next season? We would miss him big, but another team may overpay him. I would pay him 3M/year but 5M??? 252306[/snapback] For an example of what to do with older free agents, see the Eagles. Seems to be working out just fine for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Whoah... I wouldn't sign him for 5 mil per year either BGIM. I see now that you are taking the little agent media plant literally. That is merely the upper end or ceiling of negotiations as I am seeing it. Very typical posturing that goes on amongst all agents worth their salt. 252322[/snapback] Yep, especially when Angelo Wright is involved, we've seen it before. Now, if some team gave PW that kind of $$$, sure, he's gone. But no one will & I expect to see him back with the Bills next year... though it looks like he'll re-sign much later than I first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 I am very dissappointed that Williams wants so much. I didn't think he'd take the "money is more important than winning" route, but he obviously has. I think lining up next to Sam Adams has evertything to do with his success the past two seasons. Unless he is signed by a team with another good DT, he'll be considered a bust by week 5. Didn't Williams talk Sam into coming to Buffalo? Didn't Williams say he really wanted to come back to Buffalo amd would be willing to take a little less than he could get on the open market? Maybe I'm remembering something that never was said. But asking for $5 million shows he has no intention of doing what is best for a team. I am holding out hope that this is just some stupid crap his agent is pulling, and Williams will come around and do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Folks are right that they can't overpay for Pat, but they would be foolish not to give him what he is worth. If he is willing to come fairly and the Bills still ignore this, it should be considered a mistake IMO. Pat is the rock that makes the whole defense work at it's peak. There is no player currently under contract that would come near his production value lined up next to big Sam. 252275[/snapback] Pat is Fat and old and good cap mgmt dictates that you don't tie up big money / long term contracts in players on the backside of their careers. Gotta like Pat's home team discount of $5 mil / yr. Should have drafted Vince Wilfork last year, then there wouldn't be a problem. Bills will be fine without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 For an example of what to do with older free agents, see the Eagles. Seems to be working out just fine for them. 252435[/snapback] for an example of what to do with younger free agents, see the eagles seems to be working out just fine for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 I am very dissappointed that Williams wants so much. I didn't think he'd take the "money is more important than winning" route, but he obviously has. I think lining up next to Sam Adams has evertything to do with his success the past two seasons. Unless he is signed by a team with another good DT, he'll be considered a bust by week 5. Didn't Williams talk Sam into coming to Buffalo? Didn't Williams say he really wanted to come back to Buffalo amd would be willing to take a little less than he could get on the open market? Maybe I'm remembering something that never was said. But asking for $5 million shows he has no intention of doing what is best for a team. I am holding out hope that this is just some stupid crap his agent is pulling, and Williams will come around and do the right thing. 252446[/snapback] i haven't seen a comment from his agent or from big pat that says they are looking for 5M.......just media speculation........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 for an example of what to do with younger free agents, see the eagles seems to be working out just fine for them 252462[/snapback] And that is? They sign younger free eagents while letting their old-timers (Vincent, etc...) go. Your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 And that is? They sign younger free eagents while letting their old-timers (Vincent, etc...) go. Your point is? 252467[/snapback] we have not applied that strategy with peerless, winfield, or jennings......and i think we'll see the same thing happen with clements.......as a result, we need to retain more of our older players........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 we have not applied that strategy with peerless, winfield, or jennings......and i think we'll see the same thing happen with clements.......as a result, we need to retain more of our older players........ 252470[/snapback] I would be willing to bet that TD has every intention of getting Clements done sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 we have not applied that strategy with peerless, winfield, or jennings......and i think we'll see the same thing happen with clements.......as a result, we need to retain more of our older players........ 252470[/snapback] Right. We didn't resign Moulds. We didn't bring in Takeo, London or Posey, either. And NO, they'll not let Nate go. They'd be nuts to. But take this to heart: you can NOT screw the cap for the sake of one player, no matter how important that one player is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Right. We didn't resign Moulds. We didn't bring in Takeo, London or Posey, either. And NO, they'll not let Nate go. They'd be nuts to. But take this to heart: you can NOT screw the cap for the sake of one player, no matter how important that one player is. 252476[/snapback] bringing in takeo, london, and posey has nothing to do with the discussion because we're talking about retaining younger players......... you just pointed to the eagles' strategy, but you only pointed to half of it.........the other half is ripping up contracts of younger players BEFORE they have become established stars in the league and giving them healthy signing bonuses to do so.........this means you don't overpay for your younger players, but you still keep them around...........TD has not shown the balls to do that as of yet, letting guys get to free agency and allowing there value to explode........if you want to let vets go because "they're greedy", you need to sign your younger players to longer deals and have them ready to step in.........that is the point......... i never said anything about screwing up the cap over one player.......i'm all for showing faith in players and giving them new deals BEFORE the carrot of free agency gets to close.........that is what the eagles do, and i think it works just fine........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 bringing in takeo, london, and posey has nothing to do with the discussion because we're talking about retaining younger players......... you just pointed to the eagles' strategy, but you only pointed to half of it.........the other half is ripping up contracts of younger players BEFORE they have become established stars in the league and giving them healthy signing bonuses to do so.........this means you don't overpay for your younger players, but you still keep them around...........TD has not shown the balls to do that as of yet, letting guys get to free agency and allowing there value to explode........if you want to let vets go because "they're greedy", you need to sign your younger players to longer deals and have them ready to step in.........that is the point......... i never said anything about screwing up the cap over one player.......i'm all for showing faith in players and giving them new deals BEFORE the carrot of free agency gets to close.........that is what the eagles do, and i think it works just fine........ 252486[/snapback] The Eagles drafted an ENTIRE SECONDARY one year (two years ago?) with the express and intent purpose of dropping Vincent, Taylor and one other guy whose name escapes me. TD has done this as well (McGee/Winfield being one example). Also, TD has shown the nutz to hold the line on the likes of Wiley, Cowart and Winfield and the net result is that our D is for the better. Clements WILL get done, and I'm willing to bet it is on TD's terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Pat is Fat and old and good cap mgmt dictates that you don't tie up big money / long term contracts in players on the backside of their careers. Gotta like Pat's home team discount of $5 mil / yr. Should have drafted Vince Wilfork last year, then there wouldn't be a problem. Bills will be fine without him 252449[/snapback] Yeah right. Draft Wilfork last year and we have a QB or WR problem right now. If you're going to respond to my post atleast read what I had to say. It's obvious that many in this thread (besides Rico) did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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