thebandit27 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Hand technique was his big weakness coming out of college. Quick DTs like Donald would own him there. His technique since then has improved greatly. Functional strength as well...plus his footwork--not technique-wise, but rather cutting down on the number of steps it takes to get him where he needs to be. He's following the exact career path I had him on before the 2015 draft. I suspect he'll make one more leap between this season and next, which will put him among the better guards in the NFL. I still don't think he'll ever be a pro bowl caliber guard, but that's totally fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I thought the rap against him was that he had short arms ... those stretching exercises in the off season certainly worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Functional strength as well...plus his footwork--not technique-wise, but rather cutting down on the number of steps it takes to get him where he needs to be. He's following the exact career path I had him on before the 2015 draft. I suspect he'll make one more leap between this season and next, which will put him among the better guards in the NFL. I still don't think he'll ever be a pro bowl caliber guard, but that's totally fine with me. Hasn't he been grading out at an unbelievable rate every week this season? Are you expecting regression? Otherwise one would assume a pro bowl this year (and in the future if he makes those leaps you speak about) is more than attainable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Hasn't he been grading out at an unbelievable rate every week this season? Are you expecting regression? Otherwise one would assume a pro bowl this year (and in the future if he makes those leaps you speak about) is more than attainable? He's been very good--Buffalo's best lineman IMO. It's not that I'm expecting regression per se, I simply don't think he'll be among the top 6-8 guards in the NFL. He's not on the level of guys like Osemele, Yanda, etc., which is okay with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 He's been very good--Buffalo's best lineman IMO. It's not that I'm expecting regression per se, I simply don't think he'll be among the top 6-8 guards in the NFL. He's not on the level of guys like Osemele, Yanda, etc., which is okay with me. Physical limitations will stop him being a top-tier player but his technique can be nurtured to the point where he's a very reliable 10-12 year player. The thing that I think gets lost on people is that, as a offensive lineman, neutral can be a win. John is getting to the point already where he's not doing harm to the game plan. If you get that from a 3rd round pick, that's return on investment you can live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crowing Rooster Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I think the whole line has played well this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 He's been very good--Buffalo's best lineman IMO. It's not that I'm expecting regression per se, I simply don't think he'll be among the top 6-8 guards in the NFL. He's not on the level of guys like Osemele, Yanda, etc., which is okay with me. I follow your logic - my comment is, hasn't he been grading out as THE best (if not it's gotta be top three) guard in the NFL? So shouldn't that warrant pro bowl consideration if that keeps up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I follow your logic - my comment is, hasn't he been grading out as THE best (if not it's gotta be top three) guard in the NFL? So shouldn't that warrant pro bowl consideration if that keeps up? PFF has him 24th in the NFL, Richie 39th. 24th as a pass blocker, 27th as a run blocker. I think that's probably fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 PFF has him 24th in the NFL, Richie 39th. 24th as a pass blocker, 27th as a run blocker. I think that's probably fair. Oh wow! I saw back to back weeks where he was an outrageous like +14 or something! Either I saw wrong or there's an insane amount of great guards this year puttin up huge numbers...or he had some stinkers to even out those awesome weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Physical limitations will stop him being a top-tier player but his technique can be nurtured to the point where he's a very reliable 10-12 year player. The thing that I think gets lost on people is that, as a offensive lineman, neutral can be a win. John is getting to the point already where he's not doing harm to the game plan. If you get that from a 3rd round pick, that's return on investment you can live with. Absolutely. It's the very thing that I said leading up to the 2015 draft when I looked at his video: mid-round pick, immediate starter, long-time contributor, never a pro bowler...and that's totally fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Hes been playing well. I'll admit to being someone that was hoping they would upgrade at this position last offseason. Miller is playing well though and is strong in run blocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Oh wow! I saw back to back weeks where he was an outrageous like +14 or something! Either I saw wrong or there's an insane amount of great guards this year puttin up huge numbers...or he had some stinkers to even out those awesome weeks That's still pretty good out of 64 players. I don't think you could honestly expect much more from a 3rd round player. I think the Bills line has been playing better than PFF is currently stating. I suppose they are also looking at the first two games in which the Bills run game was nonexistent. The current ranking should improve if they continue to play as well as they have in the last three games. "20. Buffalo Bills (10)Starters: LT Cordy Glenn, LG Richie Incognito, C Eric Wood, RG John Miller, RT Jordan Mills The Bills’ line has been impressively average across the board. RT Jordan Mills probably strays the furthest from average when it comes to his run blocking, but he has actually been relatively solid as a pass blocker to balance that, allowing only six total pressures and no sacks or hits yet this year. Strangely, only LG Richie Incognito has actually surrendered a sack amongst the starters, and he has coughed up three on his own." https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 That's still pretty good out of 64 players. I don't think you could honestly expect much more from a 3rd round player. I think the Bills line has been playing better than PFF is currently stating. I suppose they are also looking at the first two games in which the Bills run game was nonexistent. The current ranking should improve if they continue to play as well as they have in the last three games. "20. Buffalo Bills (10)Starters: LT Cordy Glenn, LG Richie Incognito, C Eric Wood, RG John Miller, RT Jordan Mills The Bills’ line has been impressively average across the board. RT Jordan Mills probably strays the furthest from average when it comes to his run blocking, but he has actually been relatively solid as a pass blocker to balance that, allowing only six total pressures and no sacks or hits yet this year. Strangely, only LG Richie Incognito has actually surrendered a sack amongst the starters, and he has coughed up three on his own." https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-5-2/ I don't understand how they grade O-linemen. The giants legit have pressure on every single pass play, and average about 50 yards rushing per game. But their Line is top 5? Whaaaat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I don't understand how they grade O-linemen. The giants legit have pressure on every single pass play, and average about 50 yards rushing per game. But their Line is top 5? Whaaaat? Yep. Their line is not good. I have long been dubious about PFF's line gradings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) Oh wow! I saw back to back weeks where he was an outrageous like +14 or something! Either I saw wrong or there's an insane amount of great guards this year puttin up huge numbers...or he had some stinkers to even out those awesome weeks I don't know if they've done a re-grade from the time I received the PDF files but Miller has a cumulative gameday grade of -1.3. The 77.4 grade for him is the high-end of average. 81.7 in pass pro is very good, 75.0 as a run blocker. I don't have a clue how he can be below average (0.0 being completely neutral) in one set but above average/good in others. Edited October 13, 2016 by Blokestradamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 @ChrisTrapasso I tracked John Miller vs. Aaron Donald in 1v1 battles in Wk5: Miller: 10 wins Donald: 4 wins 4 draws Super impressive from the #Bills RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 @ChrisTrapasso I tracked John Miller vs. Aaron Donald in 1v1 battles in Wk5: Miller: 10 wins Donald: 4 wins 4 draws Super impressive from the #Bills RG Aaron Donald can't even hold Sheldon Richardson's jock though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I don't understand how they grade O-linemen. The giants legit have pressure on every single pass play, and average about 50 yards rushing per game. But their Line is top 5? Whaaaat? From what I surmise is that they grade individuals rather than how the entire unit is playing and thus they grade each player and then add the totals. Richie Incognito graded so highly last season he really made up for the right side of that Bills line as they graded at #10 overall and we all saw how bad that right side was at times. It is rather dubious that the three worst graded lines this year are the Rams, Seahawks, and Vikings. Yet all three teams have a winning record. However, we do see the Seahawks is the worst just by watching the games and should Wilson miss a game we would really see just how bad that line really is playing. Minnesota is last in the NFL in rushing and the Rams are 28th. Plus the Rams are last in the league in three and out percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Does John Miller have anything to do with this? Yep! @PFF_Zoltan Highest average yards before contact (OL perf. indicator): 1. Buffalo 2.78 2. Atlanta 2.42 3. Carolina 2.42 4. Chicago 2.36 5. Dallas 2.31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Does John Miller have anything to do with this? Yep! @PFF_Zoltan Highest average yards before contact (OL perf. indicator): 1. Buffalo 2.78 2. Atlanta 2.42 3. Carolina 2.42 4. Chicago 2.36 5. Dallas 2.31 Man, someone really has a lot of time on their hands to calculate that ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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