DrDawkinstein Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Promo asked me a question that I answered. Worked up? How so? Because I've made two posts on the subject? Spiller's fair value is a pack of gum, not $5M per. And mismanaging the QB position in today's NFL is not the definition of a minor miscue, IMO. Maybe it was just your use of exaggeration that makes you seem more upset than you are. You'll never convince me there is reason to be concerned using "the Spiller offer" as an example. Whaley low-balled him in attempt to re-sign the team's own draft picks, as good teams do. Spiller went elsewhere to a team willing to make that mistake. End of story. There is definitely room for discussion on the QB position, you are correct. But I dont think it's due to lack of effort on Whaley's part. More so that finding an NFL-capable QB is difficult. There arent even 32 in the world. I'm hoping that this is following the exact same track that Newsome followed when he was a fresh GM. Made a mistake drafting Boller (Manuel), stuck with him a few years and then signed veteran McNair (Taylor), before drafting the franchise QB a few years after that (Flacco). It's possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Maybe it was just your use of exaggeration that makes you seem more upset than you are. You'll never convince me there is reason to be concerned using "the Spiller offer" as an example. Whaley low-balled him in attempt to re-sign the team's own draft picks, as good teams do. Spiller went elsewhere to a team willing to make that mistake. End of story. There is definitely room for discussion on the QB position, you are correct. But I dont think it's due to lack of effort on Whaley's part. More so that finding an NFL-capable QB is difficult. There arent even 32 in the world. I'm hoping that this is following the exact same track that Newsome followed when he was a fresh GM. Made a mistake drafting Boller (Manuel), stuck with him a few years and then signed veteran McNair (Taylor), before drafting the franchise QB a few years after that (Flacco). It's possible! Good teams don't re-sign bust draft picks. Whaley's mismanagement of the QB position has nothing to do with not having a great option. More so, it has to deal with his short-term thinking and failure to plan, which, he seems to have rectified since 2015, but still. 2 years down the drain. Hear hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Good teams don't re-sign bust draft picks. Whaley's mismanagement of the QB position has nothing to do with not having a great option. More so, it has to deal with his short-term thinking and failure to plan, which, he seems to have rectified since 2015, but still. 2 years down the drain. Hear hear. Brought in Kevin Kolb as a veteran bridge while their draft pick developed. Traded down to get an additional 2nd, and still had their pick of the QB class. Picked what looks like the "best" QB in that class (although that's like saying "she's my hottest cousin"). Brought in other veterans (like VYoung and Leinhert who should have been legit contenders) to tryout when Kolb lost his fight to a rubber mat. Seems like there was a plan that other teams try to follow as well. He just failed to predict Kolb's injury, and then there wasnt much available after that. It could be argued that they should have simply stuck with Fitz and developed EJ or whoever behind him. I've pondered as much in some posts as well. But I was (and still really am) all for moving on from Fitz. Who knows how Fitz would have fared against that rubber mat anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Brought in Kevin Kolb as a veteran bridge while their draft pick developed. Traded down to get an additional 2nd, and still had their pick of the QB class. Picked what looks like the "best" QB in that class (although that's like saying "she's my hottest cousin"). Brought in other veterans (like VYoung and Leinhert who should have been legit contenders) to tryout when Kolb lost his fight to a rubber mat. Seems like there was a plan that other teams try to follow as well. He just failed to predict Kolb's injury, and then there wasnt much available after that. It could be argued that they should have simply stuck with Fitz and developed EJ or whoever behind him. I've pondered as much in some posts as well. But I was (and still really am) all for moving on from Fitz. Who knows how Fitz would have fared against that rubber mat anyway! VYoung and Leinhart were 2014, not 2013 IIRC. Failing to predict Kevin Kolb's injury is precisely what I was saying with the "easily foreseeable" blunders. If your plan is reliant on Kolb staying healthy, it's a bad plan. Even though fans were "ready" to move on with Fitz, cutting him set the stage for the mess of 2013 and 2014. Furthermore, if Kyle Orton was signed earlier, who knows if we beat Houston or SD and make the playoffs that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) VYoung and Leinhart were 2014, not 2013 IIRC. Failing to predict Kevin Kolb's injury is precisely what I was saying with the "easily foreseeable" blunders. If your plan is reliant on Kolb staying healthy, it's a bad plan. Even though fans were "ready" to move on with Fitz, cutting him set the stage for the mess of 2013 and 2014. Furthermore, if Kyle Orton was signed earlier, who knows if we beat Houston or SD and make the playoffs that season. Leinart was 2013. Young was before Whaley. He was Nix. 2013 their plan was Kolb, EJ, Tuel. The reality was EJ got hurt, Kolb got hurt they signed Leinart and traded for Thad Lewis and let them fight it out for a spot in the final pre-season game. Leinart stunk. 2014 was Jordan Palmer. Then obviously Orton late on. EDIT: Also worth saying the Fitzpatrick mess was Nix. Once he had bad mouthed him in that secret recording the relationship was at rock bottom and the team had no choice but to move on. It was done before Whaley took control. If they made a mistake in 2013 then in my view it was cutting TJax too quickly. I saw no reason that they couldn't have gone into camp with Kolb, TJax and EJ. Instead they cut TJax after OTAs and then Kolb got hurt almost immediately. Edited October 4, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) VYoung and Leinhart were 2014, not 2013 IIRC. Failing to predict Kevin Kolb's injury is precisely what I was saying with the "easily foreseeable" blunders. If your plan is reliant on Kolb staying healthy, it's a bad plan. Even though fans were "ready" to move on with Fitz, cutting him set the stage for the mess of 2013 and 2014. Furthermore, if Kyle Orton was signed earlier, who knows if we beat Houston or SD and make the playoffs that season. Haha, I dont disagree on Kolb. Wasnt he still recovering from getting knocked out for the season by one of our own Bills in the previous Cardinals game? 2013, 2014, point is, this team didnt sit on its hands, looking at EJ. They tried to bring in as many QBs as possible to find one. Orton wasnt coming back before the season already started. Those were his own terms. He wasnt going to bother with camp or preseason. Tough to say what the timing was there. Im not trying to argue every point you make, but it just isnt as easy as pointing at a guy and going "You're signed". And QBs are hard to come by. Good news is, simply drafting C Jones in the 4th this year, while having TT as the known starter and EJ as backup, shows this team is starting to comprehend that the QB position needs to be addressed often to keep up. Here's to Taylor's success, and our next pick being the Franchise! :beer: Edited October 4, 2016 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Keep the one we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Haha, I dont disagree on Kolb. Wasnt he still recovering from getting knocked out for the season by one of our own Bills in the previous Cardinals game? 2013, 2014, point is, this team didnt sit on its hands, looking at EJ. They tried to bring in as many QBs as possible to find one. Orton wasnt coming back before the season already started. Those were his own terms. He wasnt going to bother with camp or preseason. Tough to say what the timing was there. Im not trying to argue every point you make, but it's just isnt as easy as pointing at a guy and going "You're signed". And QBs are hard to come by. Good news is, simply drafting C Jones in the 4th this year, while having TT as the known starter and EJ as backup, shows this team is starting to comprehend that the QB position needs to be addressed often to keep up. Here's to Taylor's success, and our next pick being the Franchise! :beer: I definitely agree with your last point about it being easy to sign. Whaley was blamed for not bringing in vet WR's to shore up the position this year, but it's my opinion that guys like Boldin etc aren't trying to play for the Bills in their twilight years blocking 80% of the time. Which makes them hard to go after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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