Robert Woods contract vs. Marvin Jones/Mohamed Sanu

[Acantha]

If an elephant walks out and takes a dump on the field, is Woods easily replaceable THEN?The question was if a guy replacing him had 1 catch for -2 yards was Woods easily replaceable? The Bills wouldn't be replacing their #2 WR with a guy that would have 1 catch for -2 yards. It will either be an accomplished vet on a short deal or a WR picked in the first few rounds. The dumb question got the dumb response.

I know. I was ridiculing the questions, not the response.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

I know. I was ridiculing the questions, not the response.

Oh, I never know on here. I say a lot of stupid things but try to keep my REALLY stupid answers to stupid questions. The stupid opinions are my own though.

Woods availability when we took him is a prime example. Seems we are same page with the day two rookie or 30 something rental. Now that we have a strong roster the latter is more possible too - they would consider us.

 

Heck - that we rolled out productivity with Donald jones, David Nelson (and Stevie) a few years ago. None great #1 options but as a 2-4 you are kind of 6 of 1 half dozen of the other to woods hogan. I'd rather them at league min than woods hogan at 9-10m

It's not even just WR. The Bills let Stefan Charles walk out the door when he got a FA offer and replaced him with Washington. You just can't overpay for decent players. Let someone else do that.

[Uncle Joe]

Woods is the most under appreciated player on this team IMO, not only by the fans in general but the coaching staff, which surprises me. Factor in the different QB's (# of and QB play itself), injury (playing through it, when many wouldnt), run heavy offense, not starting every game last year and lack of public support/belief from the organization... I dont get it. .

 

Hi, my moniker is Uncle Joe.

I am a Bills fan and I appreciate Robert Woods.

[FireChan]

The question was if a guy replacing him had 1 catch for -2 yards was Woods easily replaceable? The Bills wouldn't be replacing their #2 WR with a guy that would have 1 catch for -2 yards. It will either be an accomplished vet on a short deal or a WR picked in the first few rounds. The dumb question got the dumb response.

Another guarantee that the top 3 pick at WR will be productive. Bold. Hi Marquise. Hi TJ Graham. How many catches between the two of them last year? Did they get to 1 for -2 yards?

Edited May 11, 2016 by FireChan

[GunnerBill]

If the Anquan Boldins and Roddy Whites of the world are available for around half of a Hogan (so we are saying $2.5m a year?) then why do they remain unsigned? One can only presume they are not that interested in playing at that money. I am always wary of saying those kind of guys who have been paid big $$s in their career will suddenly sign for much smaller sums. If they do they generally only do it after taking most of camp off, which rarely turns out well.

 

EDIT: That isn't me arguing to pay Hogan or Woods $5m a year though. You only do that if you have the Patriots model of don't pay a #1 receiver and pay 3 or 4 mid range guys instead. I just think the idea that these older vets are suddenly going to drop their price is a little theoretical until in practice we see it happen.

 

EDIT2: It is why the model for me is you cycle through mid round draft picks and less high profile street FAs like the ones we have already brought in in the hope of finding the next Chris Hogan who will give you 2-3 season of reasonable production at a small price.

Edited May 11, 2016 by GunnerBill

[Kirby Jackson]

Another guarantee that the top 3 pick at WR will be productive. Bold. Hi Marquise. Hi TJ Graham. How many catches between the two of them last year? Did they get to 1 for -2 yards?

If you were drafting a guy to be your number 2 you wouldn't take a speed guy with upside. You take a Tyler Boyd, Sterling Shepard, Robert Woods type, a productive college player, that runs good routes.

 

It's odd to me that the guy that hates everyone loves one of the most average players on the roster. His production won't be hard to replace. There are guys on the market now, in the middle of May, that would be an upgrade. Why do you think with an entire FA period and another draft that the Bills can't find a guy to catch 47 ball for 550 yards and 3 TDs? He was 72nd in catches and 78th in yards as a number 2 that played all year. He is an average football player.

 

I like Woods but am really surprised at how people view him. Everyone has this weird theory that you keep guys that you drafted even if they are average. You do the opposite!! You don't pay $5M for the same production that you can get for $2.5M just because you drafted the guy!! That is what kills teams. You need to have the contract match the production and it doesn't matter if you drafted the guy or not.

[Kirby Jackson]

If the Anquan Boldins and Roddy Whites of the world are available for around half of a Hogan (so we are saying $2.5m a year?) then why do they remain unsigned? One can only presume they are not that interested in playing at that money. I am always wary of saying those kind of guys who have been paid big $$s in their career will suddenly sign for much smaller sums. If they do they generally only do it after taking most of camp off, which rarely turns out well.

 

EDIT: That isn't me arguing to pay Hogan or Woods $5m a year though. You only do that if you have the Patriots model of don't pay a #1 receiver and pay 3 or 4 mid range guys instead. I just think the idea that these older vets are suddenly going to drop their price is a little theoretical until in practice we see it happen.

 

EDIT2: It is why the model for me is you cycle through mid round draft picks and less high profile street FAs like the ones we have already brought in in the hope of finding the next Chris Hogan who will give you 2-3 season of reasonable production at a small price.

Small sample size but last year Lance Moore signed for $1.5M, Steve Johnson for about $3.5M, Ted Ginn $2.1M, Cecil Shorts and Brian Hartine for $3M each, and the aforementioned James Jones $870K. This year Kamar Aiken $2.5M and Jeremy Kerley $850K.

 

I'm not advocating for all of those guys but would you rather have Stevie for $3.5M or Woods at $6M+? Sanu got $8M and Marvin Jones $6.5ish. The WR money on this team should go to Sammy and then fill in around him with a possession guy and a speed guy.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

Small sample size but last year Lance Moore signed for $1.5M, Steve Johnson for about $3.5M, acted Ginn $2.1M, Cecil Shorts and Brian Hartine for $3M each, and the aforementioned James Jones $870K. This year Kamar Aiken $2.5M and Jeremy Kerley $850K.

 

I'm not advocating for all of those guys but would you rather have Stevie for $3.5M or Woods at $6M+? Sanu got $8M and Marvin Jones $6.5ish. The WR money on this team should go to Sammy and then fill in around him with a possession guy and a speed guy.

 

I don't put those guys in the same bracket as Boldin or a White I think that is my point. There is a difference between career role players and depth guys (only Stevie on that list has ever been a true #1 and that was here) and guys like Boldin and White who have been #1s or #1a types throughout their career.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I don't put those guys in the same bracket as Boldin or a White I think that is my point. There is a difference between career role players and depth guys (only Stevie on that list has ever been a true #1 and that was here) and guys like Boldin and White who have been #1s or #1a types throughout their career.

White can expect a lot less this year, as can Andre Johnson. Their production last year was still on par with Woods. Lance Moore, at one point, was a far superior player to Woods. Kamar Aiken played as a #1 for a good part of last year and had 75 catches for 944 yards and 5 TDs. Ginn had 739 yards and 10 TDs last year. Hatline's numbers last year were virtually identical to Woods and he played in an awful situation.

 

The point was that you can find average production pretty easily. I sound like a broken record so I will bow out on this conversation. I've said my piece (and I do like Woods). I'm just a firm believer that you don't pay more for average just because you drafted the guy. You pay for elite talents and skill sets that are hard to find. If they can get Woods for $4M a year, I am all for it but I wouldn't go higher.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

The point was that you can find average production pretty easily. I sound like a broken record so I will bow out on this conversation. I've said my piece (and I do like Woods). I'm just a firm believer that you don't pay more for average just because you drafted the guy. You pay for elite talents and skill sets that are hard to find. If they can get Woods for $4M a year, I am all for it but I wouldn't go higher.

 

And I totally agree with that. Just don't think the Boldins and Whites of the world are going to play for $2.5m a year. Think they'd rather retire.

[P51]

 

I agree with your assessment of Woods, but...

 

At the end of the day, it's a numbers game. You simply cant re-sign everyone. Id much rather see them dedicate resources to Glenn/Gilmore/Taylor/Watkins than the depth players. We had to let Searcy walk, this will probably be similar.

 

I agree with your assessment of the numbers game, but it seems off to me that they are already ready to move on from him and started to last year with the Harvin signing.

 

IF a contract with Woods can be agreed upon that is not over market or FA crazy, I dont see why they would not bring him back, the feeling I get is that they want to let him go. I cant figure out why, unless his agent is talking crazy #'s already...

 

He was 50th in receptions for WR's last year and I believe T70th in yards for WR's, which is not bad considering he did not start the 1st 5 games and played in 14 games (9 starts) total, on a bad hammy. I dont think he's as easily replaceable as people think. Other WR's have comparable stats, but they mostly started and played the whole season, proportionally the stats are not as comparable as many think.

 

Anyway, I could see it ending up like a Searcy situation, I think Woods is a much better WR than Searcy was a S, and worth it on the right contract.

 

Edit: It'll be interesting to see what Woods looks for contractually.

Edited May 11, 2016 by P51

[NoSaint]

 

I agree with your assessment of the numbers game, but it seems off to me that they are already ready to move on from him and started to last year with the Harvin signing.

 

IF a contract with Woods can be agreed upon that is not over market or FA crazy, I dont see why they would not bring him back, the feeling I get is that they want to let him go. I cant figure out why, unless his agent is talking crazy #'s already...

 

He was 50th in receptions for WR's last year and I believe T70th in yards for WR's, which is not bad considering he did not start the 1st 5 games and played in 14 games (9 starts) total, on a bad hammy. I dont think he's as easily replaceable as people think. Other WR's have comparable stats, but they mostly started and played the whole season, proportionally the stats are not as comparable as many think.

 

Anyway, I could see it ending up like a Searcy situation, I think Woods is a much better WR than Searcy was a S, and worth it on the right contract.

 

Edit: It'll be interesting to see what Woods looks for contractually.

looking at whether guys had 40 catches isnt a terribly productive way to gauge the 2-4 slots on a WR depth chart. its a passing league, and you throw 1 of about 200 guys out there full time and they will get some catches.

 

the problem is if you are pay 5, 6, or 7m a year for a guy in that secondary role he better change the game somehow (pulling a safety, crushing it on 50-50 balls etc...) if its simply being a reliable chain mover that is an effective blocker, there isnt a huge differential in skill, and a lot of (mostly cheaper) options.

 

if your roster is lacking stars, especially at WR, it is easier to justify, or if you arent paying a QB..... but i think our reality is changing and this is the type of player we have to cycle through effectively to be competitive.

[3rdand12]

I have trouble evaluating Robert. First because of the QB situation last year ( which affected all the Recs ) imo. Then the injuries that occurred to Woods and Hogan.

Lastly what does Roman want at that position?

 

I would bet Robert wants a prominent role or FA. If i were he i would be sick of Buffalo. He is not loved by the fans at all. And even Whaley publicly called him out ( while he was injured btw)

On the other hand I hope he has a break out season finally and gets paid !