Mike Williams to move to LT?

[JP-era]

I think thi smay be in the works. Consider this:

 

Williams is set to make a huge contract next year 9 mill or something. Jennings is set to walk. Jennings was considered by many to be the best LT set to be available in FA. However, there are a few decent RT available.

 

So, logic follows that we could move big Mike to LT and sign one of the RT out there.

 

We then would be playing Mike at LT and he certainly is being paid like an LT. He probably was our best T last year and has upside including nimble feet to play the spot. And the Bills may feel that with Jennings leaving their best LT option may be Mike.

 

As far as RT goes I think we can grab a guy from FA and save money over a LT. I like Stockar McDougle or Kareem McKenzie.

 

The other interesting point here is that the Bills havent forced a restructure of Mikes contract. Is it because they have already planned to move him to LT? Do they feel that your best o-lineman out to be at LT? Do they also feel that their highest paid o-lineman should be an LT? I still think its obscene to pay Mike 9 mill next year even at LT.

 

I guess I am just wondering what the Bills are doing as far as LT goes. They are gonna let Jennings bolt, are starting Losman who will need protection, and havent shown us anything so far to say that they are going to upgrade the position. I just hope that TD doesnt try to go the cheap route and get some guy who turns out to be worse than Jennings. I hope he has a trick up his sleeve. Maybe its a trade for a stud (not Shelton). Maybe its moving Mike.

 

Lets keep our fingers crossed on this one, it could have a huge impact on our season!

[Corp000085]

That's a big big big gamble considering he was a headcase till about october. Any word on if big mike is in buffalo training with JP? I'd be for that move, as he was drafted to be the LT, paid to be the LT and now would save the team money by being the LT. I see two visions of big mike next year.. one is pancaking DEs, the other is him panting on the sideline. It's a big big gamble, with huge reward/loss consequences.

[Bill from NYC]

>>>>He probably was our best T last year and has upside including nimble feet to play the spot.<<<<

 

I think that the "nimble feet" thing is a bit of a reach, or at the very least wishful thinking in terms of Big Mike moving to LT, although I do not dismiss your suggestion.

 

I guess one of the questions that the coaches face is whether or not MW will become a truly dominant RT if left at that position and then weigh thier decision on whether or not he could be dominant at a new position (LT).

 

IF MW is slated to go to LT (which I doubt, but strange things happen) Runyon was listed as a possible cap cut. He is neither young, nor a hall of famer, but teams seem to win wherever he goes. Maybe it is coincidence, I dont know, but filling the RT spot IS easier.

 

Also, count me in the minority that thinks McNally might be able to make a good LT out of Teague. If Coach Mac thinks he can do it, I believe him.

[BillnutinHouston]

I'd feel better about this if I saw a link at the top of your post. It's only imaginings at this point.

[dogbyte]

it will be a good thing that JP can run if they move MW to LT. he is not quick enough to play against the other teams best rusher. It was better towards the end of the season at RT. Unfortunely he is being paid LT money but he will not survive there.. remember he was drafted in the 4th position of the draft to play left tackle but he was a RT at the time. The coaches thought he could make the switch but they were wrong. he is way overpaided for the position he plays. You do not draft a RT in the 4th spot in the draft, the coaches made a mistake there.

[Corp000085]

the coaches made a mistake there.

 

That's a reoccuring theme with the tastefully named gregg williams' era.

[JP-era]

I'd feel better about this if I saw a link at the top of your post.  It's only imaginings at this point.

246402[/snapback]

 

 

Not a link but Ijust watched Mularkey on NFL Total Access and he mentioned, "there will be more position changes" when refering to what other things they may do on offense.

 

I think, obviously dont know, that he is refering to this move and maybe the TE spot.

 

Maybe Shelton was to be brought in as a RT not LT with Williams to move to LT.

 

I think I like this move the best, Williams can definetly move on his feet sometimes to a flaw. He certainly has the size, knows the DE's he will be going against in our divsion, and as such may be the best guy to protect the QB's blindside. If you had to chose which T spot to add aguy who is unfamiliar with the DE's in the divsion, you would like it to be the RT spot with a right handed QB. JP should see guys coming on the right side and may be able to scramble away.

 

I like the move, if it happens. I just dont see anyone out there being better at LT than Williams may be. And like I said I think there is several RT's who would play pretty well for us. Shelton is one of them.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Moving MW to LT makes sense due to his cap hit and JJ being an unknown quantity (though cutting MW if he refuses to rersturcture also makes sense).

 

Acquiring Shelton and plugging him in at RT also makes sense (though giving him a shot at LT to replace Jennings also makes sense.

 

Finding a new LG from the several adequate ones likely available makes sense (though the concept of upgrading existing resources like Tucker or Smith by JMac guidance also makes sense since JMac got improvement out of each last year, it is illogical to simply assume that their improvement will simply stop).

 

Teague continuing to develop as a C also makes sense as his play has improved each of the past few years since he firs took up the position not to long ago (though going to a better C in FA also makes sense).

 

Villarial at RG seems like a lock.

 

A lot of this simply depends on what JMac sees and wants to do and we have no clue what the grand plan is, but we will see very very soon.

[DeeRay]

Now here is some real brilliant logic. just because a certain RT makes LT money, the bills automatically ought to move him to LT. It only makes sense, because he's being paid like a LT. To hell with the fact that MW has struggled at RT and there are questions as to whether or not he really wants to play football. And to hell with the fact that he's been labled as an underachiever and a bust. Let's just move him to LT to protect JP's blindside. How goddamn stupid!!! MWneeds to first become a competent RT before you consider any move to LT... he can't even be considered inside the top 20 as RT right now, let alone a LT.

[Estro]

I still think the reason you haven't heard any talks about the Bills asking MW to restructure is because that cap hit is not true. There is no way we are paying that guy over $9 million next season. He's worth half of that, $5 million at best.

[eSJayDee]

I don't think it's a good idea.

Based on my observations, I certainly wouldn't say that MW has 'nimble feet'. In pass protection, about the only way I can recall him being beat is by people going outside him, i.e. he's not quick enough to get in their way. Also, typically teams run 'right-handed', i.e. bull on the right, pull from the left. By all accounts, MW is indeed a bull & a force to be reckoned w/ straight up on run plays.

I think he should stay on the right where he seems best suited.

[d_wag]

I still think the reason you haven't heard any talks about the Bills asking MW to restructure is because that cap hit is not true.  There is no way we are paying that guy over $9 million next season.  He's worth half of that, $5 million at best.

246504[/snapback]

 

there was a report a few weeks back that indicated the bills have approached MW about restructuring/extending his contract........

[Mikeleelop]

there was a report a few weeks back that indicated the bills have approached MW about restructuring/extending his contract........

 

 

any link?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Now here is some real brilliant logic.  just because a certain RT makes LT money, the bills automatically ought to move him to LT.  It only makes sense, because he's being paid like a LT.  To hell with the fact that MW has struggled at RT and there are questions as to whether or not he really wants to play football.  And to hell with the fact that he's been labled as an underachiever and a bust.  Let's just move him to LT to protect JP's blindside. How goddamn stupid!!!  MWneeds to first become a competent RT before you consider any move to LT... he can't even be considered inside the top 20 as RT right now, let alone a LT.

246427[/snapback]

 

I'm sorry that things don't make sense but things in life often do not make sense, they are reality and we just have to deal with or drop out of reality until it kills us doing so.

 

The sad reality is that pro football used to be a sport that happened to be a business (sportsmen like Dan Rooney and George Halas earned their nickels running football teams). Now pro football is a business that happens to be a sport and folks like Dan Snyder or Paul Allen make billions in dot.com land and buy NFL teams as play things and unfortunately run them with that level of achievement.

 

The salary cap provides a level playing field so this sport is won or lost based on how good your moves are rather than by the one willing to spend the most money to pave over their mistakes winning. However, one effect of the salary cap is that the market determines which positions command the most investment to fill and on the OL this investment has to go to the LT or you have to fill the LT slot on the cheap.

 

The Bills have been fortunate and/or played things well the last few years as the relatively cheap JJ manned the LT slot adequately for us giving us the freedom to pay MW escalating amounts for his 4th pick slotted contract. However, the reality is that we are going to need to make positioning moves not simply driven by how well a player plays, but driven by JJ hitting four years and the free market so we are going to have to pay more like the market rate for an LT.

 

It can be JJ at LT if we are willing to pay him the $5 million plus that LTs have recently commanded (or perhaps the market is now saturated by these too buig contracts for talents like Clifton and Petitgout and we may be in a position to pay JJ less than the going rate. However, if we pay JJ even a $5 million cap hit, this would combine with the apparent $9.17 million cap hit MW is going to get to mean that these 2 players will take up over $14 million of the $85 million salary cap we have for the team. This would mean two players absorb 16% of our expenditure while the other 20 starters absorb 84% minus what the back-ups and ST players get. The math simply does not work to pay MW the cap hit we agreed to pay him to play the slot he plays.

 

Something has to give and it may well be common sense because in the end it may not be fair but life isn't fair.

[obie_wan]

Now here is some real brilliant logic.  just because a certain RT makes LT money, the bills automatically ought to move him to LT.  It only makes sense, because he's being paid like a LT.  To hell with the fact that MW has struggled at RT and there are questions as to whether or not he really wants to play football.  And to hell with the fact that he's been labled as an underachiever and a bust.  Let's just move him to LT to protect JP's blindside. How goddamn stupid!!!  MWneeds to first become a competent RT before you consider any move to LT... he can't even be considered inside the top 20 as RT right now, let alone a LT.

246427[/snapback]

 

hey - don't let the facts get in the way.

 

Now that Drew is gone, the team no longer needs even a good OL, let alone a Pro-Bowl one, so any Tom, Dick aor Harry can be plugged in to play LT.

 

 

Big, big mistake if TD lets JJ go without a better player committed to replace him.

[obie_wan]

I still think the reason you haven't heard any talks about the Bills asking MW to restructure is because that cap hit is not true.  There is no way we are paying that guy over $9 million next season.  He's worth half of that, $5 million at best.

246504[/snapback]

 

Asserting false statements as fact will do wonders for your credibility.

[obie_wan]

 

Something has to give and it may well be common sense because in the end it may not be fair but life isn't fair.

246565[/snapback]

 

 

so to meet your criteria, , give the money to JJ, who has shown he can actually play LT and bring in the much cheaper Shelton to play RT and cut MW if he refuses to take a big pay cut that matches his ability with his pay

[Mike in Syracuse]

Asserting false statements as fact will do wonders for your credibility.

246597[/snapback]

 

Since when do "facts" have anything to do with this place? Did I miss something?

 

TBD is a bastion for the overly vocal yet uninformed masses.

[Bill from NYC]

hey - don't let the facts get in the way.

 

Now that Drew is gone, the team no longer needs even a good OL, let alone a Pro-Bowl one, so any Tom, Dick aor Harry can be plugged in to play LT.

Big, big mistake if TD lets JJ go without a better player committed to replace him.

246592[/snapback]

 

I cannot understand this posting. Are you saying that the LT position for the Bills is or is not important?

[Bill from NYC]

Since when do "facts" have anything to do with this place? Did I miss something?

 

TBD is a bastion for the overly vocal yet uninformed masses. 

246604[/snapback]

 

Do you dispute the cap numbers provided by clumping platelets?

I do not hold them as gospel truth, but the guy is into it and works hard to provide us with these figures.

What totals do you have wrt the cap hit of Mike Williams in 05?

 

Additionally, your post indicates little respect for what I consider the greatest site on the internet. Why would you put in the time to moderate a website, from which by your own words, one could draw the conclusion that you hold in such little esteem?

[JP-era]

Do you dispute the cap numbers provided by clumping platelets?

I do not hold them as gospel truth, but the guy is into it and works hard to provide us with these figures.

What totals do you have wrt the cap hit of Mike Williams in 05?

 

Additionally, your post indicates little respect for what I consider the greatest site on the internet. Why would you put in the time to moderate a website, from which by your own words, one could draw the conclusion that you hold in such little esteem?

246610[/snapback]

 

 

I do, he seems to be about 5 million under what BillsDaily is reporting as our cap space. I theorize that this is propaganda meant to undermine the notion that we can purchase top talent in FA.

 

I dont believe his numbers.

[jester43]

I don't think it's a good idea.

Based on my observations, I certainly wouldn't say that MW has 'nimble feet'.  In pass protection, about the only way I can recall him being beat is by people going outside him, i.e. he's not quick enough to get in their way.  Also, typically teams run 'right-handed', i.e. bull on the right, pull from the left.  By all accounts, MW is indeed a bull & a force to be reckoned w/ straight up on run plays.

I think he should stay on the right where he seems best suited.

246509[/snapback]

 

i agree, but if he wasn't so damn fat, you could almost say he was nimble. i really believe the guy could be an outstanding LT if he would lose 20-30 lbs...at 340 he would be a perennial pro-bowler.

 

of course, whether he has the heart or self-discipline to pull it off remains to be seen. personally, i'll believe it when i see it. the only thing i know is that neither he, nor any other player we could have drafted in 2002 is worth $9million/year. if that number is accurate, SOMETHING has to be done.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

so to meet your criteria, , give the money to JJ, who has shown he can actually play LT and bring in the much cheaper Shelton to play RT and cut MW if he refuses to take a big pay cut that matches his ability with his pay

246600[/snapback]

 

Actuaslly, my msin criterion for right now is that JMac has shown me as a fan that he is an improvement over the two previous OL coaches and that within the context of a Clements system (which is an improvement over the Kevin Killdrive system) I'm quite willing to put my faith in them to make a judgment on how to acquire the individual players to produce an at least adequate if not a good OL.

 

That being said, I like the commentary and discussion about the individual talents because it provides good information to outsiders such as myself and interesting perspectives. However, I am quite certain that the things which rules the roost are judgments JMac makes to bring it all together. Unlike any other unit in football the OL strikes me as one where the whole can exceed the performance of merely adding together the sum of the individual parts.

 

I am more than willing to see JMac and the gang chose to go with a player I judge to be flawed or less talented because they believe the get better production out of the OL as a whole because this players' holes are complimented by what his partners do well or the strength of his game fits into an area where we are weak even though his failings may be glaringly obvious.

 

On the particular point you raise, I can easily see cuttin MW if in fact he has a #9.17 million cap hit and refuses to restructure. If this horrible situation confronts us, resigning JJ at as cheap a rate as we can (I think the market may well allow him to be resigned for way less than $5 mill a year) and trading Henry for Shektin who becomes our new RT is quite doable.

 

However, it I had to guess, the best we will be able to do is actually restructure MW to a lower cap hit and resign JJ and actually go with Smith (possibly Tucker) at LG because I suspect JMac and the Bills will attempt to upgrade through better teaching and implementation with exisiting players than sign a bunch of new talent. I may well be wrong but that is where I think we aree going.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

i agree, but if he wasn't so damn fat, you could almost say he was nimble.  i really believe the guy could be an outstanding LT if he would lose 20-30 lbs...at 340 he would be a perennial pro-bowler.

 

of course, whether he has the heart or self-discipline to pull it off remains to be seen.  personally, i'll believe it when i see it.  the only thing i know is that neither he, nor any other player we could have drafted in 2002 is worth $9million/year.  if that number is accurate, SOMETHING  has to be done.

246701[/snapback]

 

My sense is that MW was overweight last voluntary camp and going into last season because of the "episode" of his grandma who apparently raised him dying. Though a death of someone close to you is understandable that it might rock your world and produce some bad reactions, he lethis teaamates and the region down with this reaction. I underatnd it but I do not condone it.

 

I think we can see from his improved play as the season went on that his attitude and actions were successfully adjusted by the sticks (JMac threatened publicly to cost him big bucks by moving him to guard) and carrots (a gameball for his performance in one mid-season game) the Bills used on him.

 

I think labeling him a bust or a big butt fails to understand the reality of his improved play. There is not guarantee that his attitude adjustment will stick. but we will find out soon enough when "voluntary" camp begins and if he shows up overweight (or doesn't show up like last years camp) or unwilling to work ship him out we will have to do the best we can.

[clumping platelets]

I do, he seems to be about 5 million under what BillsDaily is reporting as our cap space. I theorize that this is propaganda meant to undermine the notion that we can purchase top talent in FA.

 

I dont believe his numbers.

246644[/snapback]

 

 

I do not do propaganda. I do my best to accurately portray the cap situation.

 

Why do people mischaracterize the cap position as bad when $7.4 million is not bad? Bills can create all the cap space they want and can pursue any player they want. It's a matter of re-working 1 or 2 deals (Mike Williams' being one of them) and releasing/trading a couple of players (Prioleau/Henry). Those moves alone can open up millions on the cap. A Henry for Shelton trade will likely be cap neutral. Why? Bills would probably do simple restructure on Shelton's 2005 salary of $3 million. Shelton's cap hit and Henry cap savings would then be nearly a complete wash.

[jester43]

my sense is that he was overweight since (at least)his senior year of college. when the bills were looking at him, and they were showing his highlights pre-draft, the first thing i thought about the guy was that he's going to have to lose weight. and i am sure he's been told many times that he wouldn't get beat around the end so much if he was light enough to move faster. i don't mean "reuben brown light," but not 380-400lbs either.

 

i give him credit for the progress he made last season, but i still think he's only slightly better than average, and he'll never be never worth his salary till he loses some weight.

 

My sense is that MW was overweight last voluntary camp and going into last season because of the "episode" of his grandma who apparently raised him dying.  Though a death of someone close to you is understandable that it might rock your world and produce some bad reactions, he lethis teaamates and the region down with this reaction. I underatnd it but I do not condone it.

 

I think we can see from his improved play as the season went on that his attitude and actions were successfully adjusted by the sticks (JMac threatened publicly to cost him big bucks by moving him to guard) and carrots (a gameball for his performance in one mid-season game) the Bills used on him.

 

I think labeling him a bust or a big butt fails to understand the reality of his improved play.  There is not guarantee that his attitude adjustment will stick. but we will find out soon enough when "voluntary" camp begins and if he shows up overweight (or doesn't show up like last years camp) or unwilling to work ship him out we will have to do the best we can.

246720[/snapback]

[Bill from NYC]

my sense is that he was overweight since (at least)his senior year of college.  when the bills were looking at him, and they were showing his highlights pre-draft, the first thing i thought about the guy was that he's going to have to lose weight.  and i am sure he's been told many times that he wouldn't get beat around the end so much if he was light enough to move faster.  i don't mean "reuben brown light," but not 380-400lbs either.

 

i give him credit for the progress he made last season, but i still think he's only slightly better than average, and he'll never be never worth his salary till he loses some weight.

246741[/snapback]

 

Imo, your take is not in any way unreasonable.

He makes a ton of money. He has had his share of "issues." It is time for Mike Williams to play dominant football for the 9.17 million dollar cap hit he is costing the Buffalo Bills Football Team.

[Rico]

One thing's for sure:

if MW didn't step up his play the last 2/3rds of the season,

he would've been joining Drew on Tuesday.

 

I'm confident that we will get our money's worth from him as long as JMac keeps kicking his butt in. As for a move to LT, it's all up to JMac.

 

 

GOD BLESS JIM MCNALLY!!!

[obie_wan]

Do you dispute the cap numbers provided by clumping platelets?

I do not hold them as gospel truth, but the guy is into it and works hard to provide us with these figures.

What totals do you have wrt the cap hit of Mike Williams in 05?

 

Additionally, your post indicates little respect for what I consider the greatest site on the internet. Why would you put in the time to moderate a website, from which by your own words, one could draw the conclusion that you hold in such little esteem?

246610[/snapback]

 

no problem withClumpy - he provides a fine service

 

It is poster who adamantly states that MW does NOT have a $9 mil cap hit

[CCLXXIX]

Pure speculation or inside scoop?

 

3. Offensive tackle. Following the departure of Jonas Jennings, Mike Williams might switch to the left side. Either way, Mike Gandy isn't the answer as a starter. The Bills need someone who can step in and play on the left or right side.

 

CBS Sportline: Strategy and personnel

[Ozymandius]

the answer is: pure speculation... not quoted sources