Tyler Sash (Giants safety) - dead; CTE at age 27

[Punching Bag]

 

A lot of it probably comes down to individual variation. Sash probably had some sort of genetic or biochemical makeup that we don't know about that made him susceptible to CTE. Maybe the subarachnoid space in his skull was just slightly smaller than normal, leading to greater susceptibility to sub-concussive trauma. Hell, for all we know, he just read one too many Bucky Gleason editorials.

I think they need to compare the brains of those who read his and Sully's articles and determine if they cause CTE; throw in Bucky's and Sully's brains too, they can take them now since they do not need them to write what they write.

[billsfan_34]

I hope we can develop a way to see the damage while the person is alive instead of having the posthumous diagnosis. Until that happens, football will be in danger of losing a lot of premium athletes to other sports.

Its already happening- less and less athletes are playing football and some communities are shutting it down all together.

[boyst]

and now to award todays adding nothing to the conversation but still saying something award....

And of course there are a few people questioning the validity of studies and arguing that we can't know for sure that there is a direct causal correlation between bashing heads together for 25 years of one's life and CTE. Why would I expect anything different? I guess we don't know for sure that smoking causes lung cancer; we only know there is a correlation between smoking and lung cancer.

 

When it comes to suicide and depression though, I would contend that being out of the spotlight, not being able to play football anymore and standing there at age 30 not knowing what to do with yourself is probably a huge contributing factor as well.

[3rdand12]

 

 

Why can't we assume every player will have evidence of CTE on autopsy. Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce will all have it. So will Brdy and all the Mannings (even Cooper). Every TV commentator who played has it--Boomer, Fouts, Simms, Aikman...you name him, he's got it. Yet so few demonstrate the supposed end effects of the autopsy finding.

 

This guy was as low milage as an NFL player gets. He washed out of the league, has a chronic inujury and chronic pain and a narcotic addiction and likely overdosed. Not sure why every such case becomes "what will happen to football?".

I have to laugh Weo.

They all demonstrate it to a degree. The announcers more so even.

 

Punch drunk is more common than you realize perhaps?

 

But you are surely right, it is an isolated incident that should be discounted.

 

lets move on

and now to award todays adding nothing to the conversation but still saying something award....

Dammit, i was really striving for that award.

 

Can i get a participatory ribbon at least?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Well, he was a hard hitting safety throughout his career, and that position seems to be over-represented in the stats (Duerson and others). He also appears to have been absolutely clobbered in one of those concussions. 16 years of doing that sort of thing adds up.

 

But that's the point - so was Eason (hard hitting free safety, noted as a "dirty player" who lead with his helmet), played about the same amount, little more maybe.

 

So for one guy it's a problem, and for another with a similar career it's not, and there has to be a reason. A secondary factor.

[bbb]

 

 

Why can't we assume every player will have evidence of CTE on autopsy. Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce will all have it. So will Brdy and all the Mannings (even Cooper). Every TV commentator who played has it--Boomer, Fouts, Simms, Aikman...you name him, he's got it. Yet so few demonstrate the supposed end effects of the autopsy finding.

 

This guy was as low milage as an NFL player gets. He washed out of the league, has a chronic inujury and chronic pain and a narcotic addiction and likely overdosed. Not sure why every such case becomes "what will happen to football?".

 

I'd like this place to get some brains that don't have CTE. How the frigg did Rick Martin have it??

 

[Mr. WEO]

That could very well be, and as Tom makes several other suggestions there could be other issues at play. Perhaps the culture has had something to do with it, the lifestyle. If you're a celebrity 24/7 walking around town and everyone knows you and parades are held in your honor. By the time you reach the NFL you've been rewarded and awarded so much in life that by the time you no longer live that life you no longer want to live life.

 

Add in some head banging, drug use, and a wild lifestyle and eventually you end up with a potent cocktail of life. Depression isn't always a result of head trauma. You can have both, or just depression. There have been countless studies done studying the brain of depressed individuals. It has major effects over time. 5-10 years of depression can cause havoc on a brain.

 

 

Yet, if you do not think it is football related, if you do not think there is enough evidence - you'll be called out on it. I've been called out on it several times here saying I do not buy the subject being sold. The Concussion movie was great.

 

I have been looking for causes of death for the 70's for about 10 minutes to give me any type of indication on % of suicides to compare to today. No luck yet.

 

Partially based upon media coverage there is also a rise in violent and suicidal tendencies among the public.

 

Except, my brother and sister in law in Texas are not letting their son play football, and they're not alone. My nephew is on a few travel baseball teams and only two kids play football and overall a handful of kids he knows are playing football. Granted they are only 2nd graders, but in their area (Plano/Dallas) there is not the numbers there for kids playing football like you'd think. At least among the middle and upper class folks.

 

Even here in NC, there are fewer kids playing.

 

The bolded group always has other options than dreaming about the NFL...

 

And of course there are a few people questioning the validity of studies and arguing that we can't know for sure that there is a direct causal correlation between bashing heads together for 25 years of one's life and CTE. Why would I expect anything different? I guess we don't know for sure that smoking causes lung cancer; we only know there is a correlation between smoking and lung cancer.

 

When it comes to suicide and depression though, I would contend that being out of the spotlight, not being able to play football anymore and standing there at age 30 not knowing what to do with yourself is probably a huge contributing factor as well.

 

CTE is a pathologic diagnosis at this point. If every player who has ever played through college ends up having path evidence of this upon death, what is this finding's significance if few of them exhibit any clinical evidence of neuro or psyche disease?

 

All smokers will exhibit graying lungs on autopsy due to the soot from smoke trapped in the airspaces and even the lymph nodes, but relatively few smokers, despite the awful appearance of their lungs, will develop lung cancer. Your analogy is weak.

 

My guess is that any test "CTE" (autopsy so far) as a structural finding in the brain will be overly sensitive but have a very low specificity for actual neurological disease.

 

Its already happening- less and less athletes are playing football and some communities are shutting it down all together.

 

Poster are conflating youth football as a recreation with elite NCAA and future NFL prospects striving for a roster spot. It doesn't matter if some communities are cutting back on Pop Warner. There will still be far too many kids who want to play than there will be roster spots in college and the NFL.

[boyst]

The bolded group always has other options than dreaming about the NFL...

 

 

 

CTE is a pathologic diagnosis at this point. If every player who has ever played through college ends up having path evidence of this upon death, what is this finding's significance if few of them exhibit any clinical evidence of neuro or psyche disease?

 

All smokers will exhibit graying lungs on autopsy due to the soot from smoke trapped in the airspaces and even the lymph nodes, but relatively few smokers, despite the awful appearance of their lungs, will develop lung cancer. Your analogy is weak.

 

My guess is that any test "CTE" (autopsy so far) as a structural finding in the brain will be overly sensitive but have a very low specificity for actual neurological disease.

 

 

 

Poster are conflating youth football as a recreation with elite NCAA and future NFL prospects striving for a roster spot. It doesn't matter if some communities are cutting back on Pop Warner. There will still be far too many kids who want to play than there will be roster spots in college and the NFL.

your socio economic thoughts on prospective NFL players. ... Yeah. Sily. I know where you want to go. Just sad

[Mr. WEO]

your socio economic thoughts on prospective NFL players. ... Yeah. Sily. I know where you want to go. Just sad

 

 

Say what?

[Luxy312]

Its already happening- less and less athletes are playing football and some communities are shutting it down all together.

 

Some communities are shutting it down, but it is growing in others. At the end of the day football participation was up in 2015 over 2014. Not all the way back up to 2013 levels after dropping about 10%, but up. Participation in high school football nationally for boys is still greater than the next two high school sports combined (track & field, and basketball). I guess my view on participation is a lot less dramatic than some. LOL.

[dave mcbride]

 

The bolded group always has other options than dreaming about the NFL...

 

 

CTE is a pathologic diagnosis at this point. If every player who has ever played through college ends up having path evidence of this upon death, what is this finding's significance if few of them exhibit any clinical evidence of neuro or psyche disease?

 

All smokers will exhibit graying lungs on autopsy due to the soot from smoke trapped in the airspaces and even the lymph nodes, but relatively few smokers, despite the awful appearance of their lungs, will develop lung cancer. Your analogy is weak.

 

My guess is that any test "CTE" (autopsy so far) as a structural finding in the brain will be overly sensitive but have a very low specificity for actual neurological disease.

 

 

Poster are conflating youth football as a recreation with elite NCAA and future NFL prospects striving for a roster spot. It doesn't matter if some communities are cutting back on Pop Warner. There will still be far too many kids who want to play than there will be roster spots in college and the NFL.

One very smart thing the league did in the last decade is start sponsoring flag leagues. Flag is pretty huge where I live (Brooklyn), and it is creating a new generation of fans who understand the game but don't have to suffer the hits. I've been a coach in my son's league the past three seasons (he's been playing for 7), and I can tell you that it's an awesome sport - fast paced and enough like real football to simulate it. It's growing very fast nationally, and locally it has skyrocketed. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/23/flagfootball/h74zDophMOPbxQBfqKXZzO/story.html

[Mr. WEO]

One very smart thing the league did in the last decade is start sponsoring flag leagues. Flag is pretty huge where I live (Brooklyn), and it is creating a new generation of fans who understand the game but don't have to suffer the hits. I've been a coach in my son's league the past three seasons (he's been playing for 7), and I can tell you that it's an awesome sport - fast paced and enough like real football to simulate it. It's growing very fast nationally, and locally it has skyrocketed. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/23/flagfootball/h74zDophMOPbxQBfqKXZzO/story.html

 

My 10 year old just played in that flag league for the first time this fall. It is pretty cool (sweet jerseys...Redskins!).

 

But I don't see a future in my lifetime where the NFL runs out of elite athletes to pick and choose from over CTE or other health risks.

[GG]

One very smart thing the league did in the last decade is start sponsoring flag leagues. Flag is pretty huge where I live (Brooklyn), and it is creating a new generation of fans who understand the game but don't have to suffer the hits. I've been a coach in my son's league the past three seasons (he's been playing for 7), and I can tell you that it's an awesome sport - fast paced and enough like real football to simulate it. It's growing very fast nationally, and locally it has skyrocketed. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/23/flagfootball/h74zDophMOPbxQBfqKXZzO/story.html

 

Everyone in my town is bummed that they stop the town league at 4th grade. Lots of interest to carry it further down the line.

[dave mcbride]

 

Everyone in my town is bummed that they stop the town league at 4th grade. Lots of interest to carry it further down the line.

Our league, which is pretty big, now runs through age 16. They added the upper level a couple of years ago because of demand. Last year was the first 15-16 year, and there were 4 teams. This year, there were 6. Next year, there will be either 8 or 10. The 11-12 age group had 14 teams, a record (12 per age group had been the previous high). And there is more than one strong local league too.

 

Last year, my team (the Bills!) lost in the finals (because of course) to a team we had dominated in game one of the season. It evoked the 1990 and 1993 Super Bowl years ...

 

The other two years I coached our team was the Jaguars. We made it to the second round of the playoffs, each year, but Jaguars are disqualified from winning championships as a rule.

Edited January 28, 2016 by dave mcbride

[beastman]

I've suffered at least 3 concussions in my life (in 33 now) including a car accident, a slip n fall on ice, and a brutal mugging in Windsor, just across the river from Detroit. The mugging I had to get surgery and my face and had bleeding from the ears. There was no glory, no reward, no chance at immortality. I'm probabky permanently damaged in my brain and didn't get a **** at playing the greatest sport in the world. So sorry, but Ive never felt sorry for junior Seau or any other pro athlete who gets concussed. They almost all have probabky lived better lives then me and I'd swap them in a heartbeat!

[boyst]

 

 

Say what?

that inner city kids play the game to get out of the city. todays inner city youth - which i have managed a lot of during the last 5 years only care about emulating the media the same as kids elsewhere in the country. the youth today is very disinterested in sports.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

that inner city kids play the game to get out of the city. todays inner city youth - which i have managed a lot of during the last 5 years only care about emulating the media the same as kids elsewhere in the country. the youth today is very disinterested in sports.

 

Inner city schools are cutting back on athletics as they struggle to stay academically accredited. Teachers don't want to volunteer coach as they're already over their head with class loads and required paperwork. A lot of neighborhood programs sponsoring sports leagues for inner city youth have been cut back. Violence is a factor - coaches and parents who would be happy to volunteer and spectate don't want to get shot (no joke) So there's a chicken/egg thing - inner city youth may be very disinterested in sports because opportunity to be involved with sports, especially expensive team sports, is low (sports like wrestling and track do better).

 

The rural schools I have seen, even poor rural schools, sports still seems to be a big thing. Differences: 1) games are a community draw, so business willing to sponsor uniforms/equipment, things like that, in exchange for adverts. 2) teachers and parents still willing to coach and pitch in 3) because it's a community draw, athletes get a bit of that "star touch" about them for better or worse. And yeah, there is that hope to ride a ticket out of town.

 

Just what I've seen.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Hopeful

[Rob's House]

Does anyone know what % of the general public has CTE?

[Greg F]

And of course there are a few people questioning the validity of studies and arguing that we can't know for sure that there is a direct causal correlation between bashing heads together for 25 years of one's life and CTE.

We can't know for sure because the studies don't say what you think they say. For one thing the study population sizes are very small. Second is the lack of randomized controlled studies. Can you say control group? It is irresponsible to think we "know for sure" when we don't know the incidence rate in the general population. Don't even know the incidence rate for the athletes and therefore cannot know the relative risk.

 

I guess we don't know for sure that smoking causes lung cancer; we only know there is a correlation between smoking and lung cancer.

We know in Western countries that smoking increases your risk of lung cancer (15 to 30 times more likely). OTOH, the 'Japanese smoking paradox' clearly shows there are confounding factors that contribute to differences in relative risk between the Japanese and Western countries. Hereditary factors appear to not be a significant factor as people of Japanese decent living in Western countries have the same relative risk as non Japanese. What history should teach us is science is never settled nor is it as simple as we would like it to be.

[bbb]

Does anyone know what % of the general public has CTE?

 

I'd like to know this, too.