DC Tom Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Not as many. What rights do I have as a citizen that non-citizens lack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 What rights do I have as a citizen that non-citizens lack?Go ask the dudes down in Gitmo that were tortured voting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Go ask the dudes down in Gitmo that were tortured voting Individuals at Guantanamo may have had their natural rights violated, but they still possessed them; which is the entire basis for which an argument that their detention was morally wrong could be made. If they had no rights intrinsic to their humanity, then nothing wrong was done to them. Voting is not a natural right, it is a civic privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Individuals at Guantanamo may have had their natural rights violated, but they still possessed them; which is the entire basis for which an argument that their detention was morally wrong could be made. If they had no rights intrinsic to their humanity, then nothing wrong was done to them. Voting is not a natural right, it is a civic privilege. I disagree. I think voting is a natural right, as its the government that protects our rights you need to be able to have a say in the government that writes the laws. The "Battle of Liberty Place" which was fought to deny blacks their say in the government was an attack on basic rights and freedoms and in no way should be celebrated with a statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 A natural right is something that is intrinsic to someone's basic humanity: IE. The right to speak, the right to travel, the right to think and to exercise thoughts, the right to assemble and associate, etc. Voting is not intrinsic. Voting is the ability to participate in an invented civic structure. It is a privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 A natural right is something that is intrinsic to someone's basic humanity: IE. The right to speak, the right to travel, the right to think and to exercise thoughts, the right to assemble and associate, etc. Voting is not intrinsic. Voting is the ability to participate in an invented civic structure. It is a privilege. You don't consider the right to property a natural right? Look how different the laws are now that women have the right to vote. Prior to voting women's rights, natural or otherwise, were severely restricted. Voting is a fundamental right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 You don't consider the right to property a natural right? Look how different the laws are now that women have the right to vote. Prior to voting women's rights, natural or otherwise, were severely restricted. Voting is a fundamental right Republican democracy is an invented civil construct. Participation in that construct cannot, therefore, be natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Go ask the dudes down in Gitmo that were tortured voting Let me restate: what rights has the government granted me that they have not granted to non-citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Let me restate: what rights has the government granted me that they have not granted to non-citizens? The right to a free phone. The right to free health care. The right to free housing. The right to free food. Oh. Wait. I read your question backwards. My bad. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 After you are granted citizenship the government protects your rights That's a battlefield, very different. Did you guys even read the original article I posted. Please go look at it and throw it in my face how those NO monuments DO celebrated a battle. They do. Tear them down! it was an excellent article. interestingly, it was mostly about slavery. should be required reading for every willfully ignorant racist here. unfortunately, wouldn't change a thing. they'll all likely waste their votes on candidates supported by a dwindling demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 it was an excellent article. interestingly, it was mostly about slavery. should be required reading for every willfully ignorant racist here. unfortunately, wouldn't change a thing. they'll all likely waste their votes on candidates supported by a dwindling demographic. Simplistic pablum for simplistic minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Simplistic pablum for simplistic minds. then perhaps you'd understand it if you chose to read it. but maybe not... oh yeah, and it's pabulum. if you're going to try a $20 word don't use a penny spelling. Edited December 23, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 should be required reading for every willfully ignorant racist here. I'd be interested to hear exactly who here you consider to be racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'd be interested to hear exactly who here you consider to be racist. not sure. i'm still waiting for citations on published works re civil war figures. that would give some insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'd be interested to hear exactly who here you consider to be racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Do you feel the same way about Israeli settlements? Still waiting on a response to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'd be interested to hear exactly who here you consider to be racist. birdog, and those like him, are precisely the reason that the national conversation in this country has become shrill, and the sides so polarized. You can't have a productive conversation with anyone who says "If you disagree with me, you're a racist." On your best day, you ignore everything that individual has to say, and on your worst, you punch him in the mouth. What you never do, however, is continue the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 not sure. i'm still waiting for citations on published works re civil war figures. that would give some insight. You may wish to consider basing accusations of racism on how people treat fellow human beings of different ethnicity, rather than their opinion of civil war monuments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Let me restate: what rights has the government granted me that they have not granted to non-citizens? Well since we don't have a draft anymore how about the right to not to be sent to another country against our will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) On your best day, you ignore everything that individual has to say, and on your worst, you punch him in the mouth. when in rome (or some other much less desirable place), do as the romans (or the inhabitants). Edited December 23, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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