FireChan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Also, anyone gonna point out that Vic was wrong in the offseason about something and he's a talentless hack that knows nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 This is no place for reason. You know something Oh Grimalkin of Excessive Size, I've got no problem with picking bones with the team. None at all actually, as I feel I level my criticisms with a measure of reason. What rankles me is when folks have to make up abstract ideas to criticize when there's plenty of good ones available. I know I shouldn't take it seriously, but sometimes I am prone to wanting folks to think things through too much as opposed to simply going on emotion. Also, anyone gonna point out that Vic was wrong in the offseason about something and he's a talentless hack that knows nothing? He did post immediately following the Pittsburgh pre-season game that Cassel would be named the starter. That said, he's an excellent writer and a very good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 You know something Oh Grimalkin of Excessive Size, I've got no problem with picking bones with the team. None at all actually, as I feel I level my criticisms with a measure of reason. What rankles me is when folks have to make up abstract ideas to criticize when there's plenty of good ones available. I know I shouldn't take it seriously, but sometimes I am prone to wanting folks to think things through too much as opposed to simply going on emotion. He did post immediately following the Pittsburgh pre-season game that Cassel would be named the starter. That said, he's an excellent writer and a very good man. i find it fairly easy to spot when a beat reporter is simply giving their own opinion (usually baseless and as credible as a post on this board), vs. when they have been told something by the team and are putting it out there. I believe the latter is the case here. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You know something Oh Grimalkin of Excessive Size, I've got no problem with picking bones with the team. None at all actually, as I feel I level my criticisms with a measure of reason. What rankles me is when folks have to make up abstract ideas to criticize when there's plenty of good ones available. I know I shouldn't take it seriously, but sometimes I am prone to wanting folks to think things through too much as opposed to simply going on emotion. He did post immediately following the Pittsburgh pre-season game that Cassel would be named the starter. That said, he's an excellent writer and a very good man. I know. I was being facetious to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I know. I was being facetious to make a point. I thought you were making a joke-reference to yesterday's Shoutbox discussion, in which you asked me to prove you wrong about something, and I brought up the Cassel thing. In all seriousness though, Vic did say that Cassel would be named the starter. Doesn't damage his rep as an outstanding writer IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Rex Ryan continuity worked out great for the Jets. That is a woefully simplifed recount of what happened from 2009-14, a time span that included a GM change, three OC's and five different starting quarterbacks NOT named Tim Tebow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 This is no place for reason. I asked you politely to share "what do you like about Rex Ryan? What has he shown this season that makes you confident he will do better next season. Do you believe that the Bills under him will ever be consistently good over a season, let alone five or ten years, the way the Pats or Steelers or Broncos have been?" Is it unreasonable for me to ask this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You know something Oh Grimalkin of Excessive Size, I've got no problem with picking bones with the team. None at all actually, as I feel I level my criticisms with a measure of reason. What rankles me is when folks have to make up abstract ideas to criticize when there's plenty of good ones available. I know I shouldn't take it seriously, but sometimes I am prone to wanting folks to think things through too much as opposed to simply going on emotion. He did post immediately following the Pittsburgh pre-season game that Cassel would be named the starter. That said, he's an excellent writer and a very good man. You're not being unreasonable. We've had nothing but coaching turnover throughout this playoff drought, and that's the one thing fans want to keep the same. It's ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That is a woefully simplifed recount of what happened from 2009-14, a time span that included a GM change, three OC's and five different starting quarterbacks NOT named Tim Tebow. Who hired and fired the OC's? Oh no, a single GM change over 5 years? And he had to change QB's when his QB's sucked or got hurt. Unbelievable! Doesn't he know playing a garbage QB for the sake of continuity is the answer?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I asked you politely to share "what do you like about Rex Ryan? What has he shown this season that makes you confident he will do better next season. Do you believe that the Bills under him will ever be consistently good over a season, let alone five or ten years, the way the Pats or Steelers or Broncos have been?" Is it unreasonable for me to ask this? You've taken an opposition stance at the close of a season that has been a disappointment to all Bills fans and you want me to convince you that there's reason to be optimistic about the coach you've pinned all the blame on. You've given me a fools errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I thought you were making a joke-reference to yesterday's Shoutbox discussion, in which you asked me to prove you wrong about something, and I brought up the Cassel thing. In all seriousness though, Vic did say that Cassel would be named the starter. Doesn't damage his rep as an outstanding writer IMO. No, moreso the folks who too-often attack reporters when they disagree with their pieces, and then turn around and praise the ones they agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Who hired and fired the OC's? Oh no, a single GM change over 5 years? And he had to change QB's when his QB's sucked or got hurt. Unbelievable! Doesn't he know playing a garbage QB for the sake of continuity is the answer?!?! Thank you for illustrating why your point was over-simplified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) The "learning a new system" doesn't do it for me. Look at the Jets. They are going through the same thing. Better record and more consistency. He'll look at our defense last year. New system with Schwartz and they dominated. Geno Smith was Rex's starting QB last year, Stephen Hill was a starting WR; Quinton Coples (who got cut) was starting at LB, and Dee Milliner, Dimitri Patterson, Kyle Wilson, and Antonio Allen were all starters at DB. This is a completely different Jets team and in my opinion that comparison is not at all valid. I wholeheartedly believe the problem in New York was Mike Tannenbaum. I love that he went to Miami. Edited December 16, 2015 by BlueFire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You've taken an opposition stance at the close of a season that has been a disappointment to all Bills fans and you want me to convince you that there's reason to be optimistic about the coach you've pinned all the blame on. You've given me a fools errand. Yes, I pin (most) of the blame on Ryan. I have given reasons why I think it should fall on him. The best argument I have heard from you for keeping him is continuity. I agree that changing coaches and systems every other season is a bad practice and incompatible with winning teams. I also admit that, given what they have invested in him, the Pegulas are unlikely to switch at this point. But there are some things that trump continuity. I have not seen anything in this season and the lead-up to it, in Ryan's ways of dealing with the problems this team has shown and his habitual practices, that tells me we can expect better results from Ryan in the future. Are you simply unwilling to tell us what you have seen from him that causes you to feel otherwise? So again: What do you like about Rex Ryan? What has he shown this season that makes you confident he will do better next season. Do you believe that the Bills under him will ever be consistently good over a season, let alone five or ten years, the way the Pats or Steelers or Broncos have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Thank you for illustrating why your point was over-simplified. Having to play another QB because your QB is hurt does not count as not having "continuity." By your logic, the Steelers don't have continuity either, because Ben has gotten hurt. Your point is disingenuous and you know it. You're defending the Bills coaches just to defend them. Same song and dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yes, I pin (most) of the blame on Ryan. I have given reasons why I think it should fall on him. The best argument I have heard from you for keeping him is continuity. I agree that changing coaches and systems every other season is a bad practice and incompatible with winning teams. I also admit that, given what they have invested in him, the Pegulas are unlikely to switch at this point. But there are some things that trump continuity. I have not seen anything in this season and the lead-up to it, in Ryan's ways of dealing with the problems this team has shown and his habitual practices, that tells me we can expect better results from Ryan in the future. Are you simply unwilling to tell us what you have seen from him that causes you to feel otherwise? So again: What do you like about Rex Ryan? What has he shown this season that makes you confident he will do better next season. Do you believe that the Bills under him will ever be consistently good over a season, let alone five or ten years, the way the Pats or Steelers or Broncos have been? You're assuming that his press conferences tell you everything to know, which I happen to believe is the opposite of true. You're also glossing over the fact the learning pains from schemes DO happen, but also that they happen more acutely when you're running excessively complicated schemes on BOTH sides of the ball, and that has been a huge undiscussed factor when it comes to penalties this year. It's not just about being rudderless and undisciplined. If you want to be pissed at Rex Ryan and Greg Roman for foisting complicated schemes on our players, fine. If that wasn't your expectation, fine. Just know that it should have been. I like that Rex Ryan has been consistently successful in the NFL since most of our players were in high school. I like that he's had success as a head coach. I like that he's not a micro-managing hardass like Marrone. I like that he doesn't coach from the podium (seriously, Bills fans need to accept this very basic fact). I like that our players love him and want to play hard for him. I like that he identified Tyrod long ago and once he finally got his hands on him, knew enough to know what he didn't know and let his OC do his thing without interference. I like that--in spite of highly visible mistakes against KC--he's very good at challenging and making in-game decisions. I like that he knows what he's all about and wont--to the chagrin of Bills fans everywhere--change. The man knows what he's doing. Players will be added and set free to run the systems he wants to run, and I have full confidence that if Tyrod, Sammy and Shady can stay healthy for 12+ games in 2016 and that if it clicks with the defense between now and September, 11-5 is a very reasonable expectation next year. Bills fans tend to forget how he wanted to bring in David Harris. Has anyone paused to think what his loan contribution to this defense might have been this year? It could have helped tremendously. He brought over one player...I'll say that again...ONE player (Alex Carrington) who had previously played in his defenses. Bills fans can't just ignore the learning curve and call it an excuse. It's a reality. And one that we were all well aware of heading into the season. By god we should have been, we've seen coaching changes before. Why Bills fans always think the next one will right the ship will forever baffle me. Having to play another QB because your QB is hurt does not count as not having "continuity." By your logic, the Steelers don't have continuity either, because Ben has gotten hurt. Your point is disingenuous and you know it. You're defending the Bills coaches just to defend them. Same song and dance. If only you could communicate like a third of the intelligence you think you have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I am not big on Rex, but I do think there is something to be said for continuity...and who is to say a new hire would be much better? Honestly, I hated Doug Marrone, but I wouldn't have fired him after last season, and I would have been happy to have him back. With Marrone, he was a new head coach, and I liked some of what he brought to the team. I think there is a chance he could have grown into a better coach. Rex, I am not so sure about. Has he hit his ceiling? He seems to be making the same mistakes that he has been for years. I like the guy personally (see my avatar), but I have never been sold on him as our head coach...but, continuity counts for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I am not big on Rex, but I do think there is something to be said for continuity...and who is to say a new hire would be much better? Honestly, I hated Doug Marrone, but I wouldn't have fired him after last season, and I would have been happy to have him back. With Marrone, he was a new head coach, and I liked some of what he brought to the team. I think there is a chance he could have grown into a better coach. Rex, I am not so sure about. Has he hit his ceiling? He seems to be making the same mistakes that he has been for years. I like the guy personally (see my avatar), but I have never been sold on him as our head coach...but, continuity counts for something. Whoa whoa whoa. Complicated, ambiguous feelings? I'm sorry, sir. This is the internet. There's no place for you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If only you could communicate like a third of the intelligence you think you have... 5 years of Rex Ryan worked out poorly. Continuity for continuity's sake is not an answer, it's a buzz-word. Why not push for EJ to start for continuity? He's got Sammy and Woods chemistry to build on? Look at the Steelers, who has been their penciled-in starter for 10 years? Their QB! It's so obvious. #continuity Keep Spiller, he's been our RB for 5 years. #continuity Sometimes, someone just sucks, and doesn't deserve time. Rex is one of those. It's why he sucked in NY with "continuity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 5 years of Rex Ryan worked out poorly. Continuity for continuity's sake is not an answer, it's a buzz-word. Why not push for EJ to start for continuity? He's got Sammy and Woods chemistry to build on? Look at the Steelers, who has been their penciled-in starter for 10 years? Their QB! It's so obvious. #continuity Keep Spiller, he's been our RB for 5 years. #continuity Sometimes, someone just sucks, and doesn't deserve time. Rex is one of those. It's why he sucked in NY with "continuity." How does Rex's offense compare this year to any of the ones he had in New York? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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