"How a rookie HC derailed a rookie QB"/All-22 of EJ Manuel

[Fixxxer]

Dude come on man. Our running game wasn't that good, our defense played well and Fitzpatrick wasn't that good. Our o-line did suck, I'll give you that. And there were a few passes that should've been caught. But I don't only remember the Watt play. I also remember that Woods was targeted 12 times and had 3 catches for 17 yards. I'm trying to let this die but EJ Manuel was freaking miserable throughout that entire game. The Williams TD was a hell of a play by EJ but you take that out of the equation and you're looking at 43 attempts and 145 yards. Here's to hoping he improves, wins the job outright and becomes our guy. I'm officially pulling for him to win the job. But let's not try and sugarcoat the Houston game.

 

Maybe John from Hemet can add something about that stat, I didn't feel or notice that stat as factual.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

What sticks in my head for the Houston game is how awesome Fitzpatrick looked and how our offense was dominating with the run game before Nate inexplicably abandoned it.

 

Too many people only remember the Watt (unblocked Watt) Pick-6.

for 80 yards!!!

 

Fitz was 25 of 37 for 268 yds 1 TD 2 INT's (longest pass) 35 yds

EJ was 21 44 225 2 TD 2 INT's (longest pass) 80 yds

Funny the Bills has a 10-7 lead at the half and the Houston O only scored 9 points in the 2nd half to the Bills 7.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201409280htx.htm

Dude come on man. Our running game wasn't that good, our defense played well and Fitzpatrick wasn't that good. Our o-line did suck, I'll give you that. And there were a few passes that should've been caught. But I don't only remember the Watt play. I also remember that Woods was targeted 12 times and had 3 catches for 17 yards. I'm trying to let this die but EJ Manuel was freaking miserable throughout that entire game. The Williams TD was a hell of a play by EJ but you take that out of the equation and you're looking at 43 attempts and 145 yards. Here's to hoping he improves, wins the job outright and becomes our guy. I'm officially pulling for him to win the job. But let's not try and sugarcoat the Houston game.

We get it - you blame EJ for scoring more points on O than the Texans we get it.

so take your own advice and let it go!!!!

[FireChan]

for 80 yards!!!

 

Fitz was 25 of 37 for 268 yds 1 TD 2 INT's (longest pass) 35 yds

EJ was 21 44 225 2 TD 2 INT's (longest pass) 80 yds

Funny the Bills has a 10-7 lead at the half and the Houston O only scored 9 points in the 2nd half to the Bills 7.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201409280htx.htm

We get it - you blame EJ for scoring more points on O than the Texans we get it.

so take your own advice and let it go!!!!

So, EJ lost us the game? Is that the point you just made?

[John from Riverside]

 

Maybe John from Hemet can add something about that stat, I didn't feel or notice that stat as factual.

In all honesty the eye test doesnt see the ball thrown at Robert Woods 12 times.......I dont even see how that is possible.

[FireChan]

In all honesty the eye test doesnt see the ball thrown at Robert Woods 12 times.......I dont even see how that is possible.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201409280htx.htm

[thewildrabbit]

 

What sticks in my head for the Houston game is how awesome Fitzpatrick looked and how our offense was dominating with the run game before Nate inexplicably abandoned it.

 

Too many people only remember the Watt (unblocked Watt) Pick-6.

Hrmm, not how I remember it.

 

Asking EJ to pass the ball 44 times against a decent Texans pass rush was more then moronic, it was sub moronic. Calling Hackett a moron is insulting to the real morons of the world.

 

The Bills passing EJ 21 of 44 for 225 2 TD's, 2 INT's vs 23 rushes for 96 yards. Spiller 15 for 60 yards, longest went for 22 yards. Jackson 7 for 33, longest went for 14 yards

 

EDIT: OK after posting that was a mess. Just read it here. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201409280htx.htm

 

Bills series in that game went like this.

 

1st series-Pass, Pass, Pass, Punt

2nd series-Run 2 yds, sack, pass, run 5 yds, pass, run -3 yds, Punt

3rd series-Run 4 yds, sack, pass, Punt

4th series-Run 1 yd, pass, pass, pass, TO, run- no gain, TO, penalty, pass, FG

5th series-Run 7 yds, pass, pass, run 1 yd, run 14 yards, TO, run 9 yards, pass, pass, TD

6th series-Pass, pass, TO, pass, run 1 yrd, pass, Punt

7th series-Pass, pass, pass, spike, pass

End of half

**Edit** Now looking back at that first half the Bills had EJ attempt 21 passes, and he was sacked 2x on second down attempting to pass. vs 10 runs for a total of 41 yards.

 

On the 5th series the Bills ran 4 times for, 7, 1, 14, 9, and passed 4 times, incomplete, 6 yards, 7 yards, 5 yards for a TD. It looks to me that when the Bills ran more they were more successful, and it took the heat off EJ which allowed him to complete more passes. It also looks to me by running the ball more would have effectively

 

second half,

INT- What gets me on that first series in the 2nd half the Bills opened up with two runs, one for 3 yards, and the next for 4 yards so all they needed was 3 yards on 3rd down. brainiac Hacket pulls a Chan Gailey, and calls for a pass on 3rd down.

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

TD

Punt

INT

 

I can't emphasize enough how much utilizing the run game more often helps a young QB, and even if the run game isn't working all that well like in 2013, it still helps take heat off the QB, and keeps the defense honest.

 

To sum it up:The first two games the Bills ran more and threw less, and won both games. Then for some unknown reason wanted to pass 40+ times a game. Last year the Bills coaches were the epitome of how not to develop a young QB by forcing him to shoulder the entire offense in the Charger / Texan games. Then they started Orton and rode him the exact same way, and fans wonder why that one dimensional offense stunk.

Loved this entire post, especially the bolded - SO true!

 

Thanks man. Glad somebody took the time to read it

Edited July 24, 2015 by FeartheLosing

[The Wiz]

So, EJ lost us the game? Is that the point you just made?

Yes. EJ lost us the game by being expected to pass 44 times against one of the best pass rushers in the league(if not the best) and having **** for a running game(which I will blame on the Oline).

 

How is it his fault?

How is it completely on him?

Did he play bad? yes. But so did the rest of the offense.

 

Somehow it's EJ's fault for needing to pass 44 times because he was calling the plays.

 

You don't like EJ, we get that.; you don't have to. But putting blame on one person when the whole team(offense) was bad shows an agenda.

[FireChan]

Yes. EJ lost us the game by being expected to pass 44 times against one of the best pass rushers in the league(if not the best) and having **** for a running game(which I will blame on the Oline).

 

How is it his fault?

How is it completely on him?

Did he play bad? yes. But so did the rest of the offense.

 

Somehow it's EJ's fault for needing to pass 44 times because he was calling the plays.

 

You don't like EJ, we get that.; you don't have to. But putting blame on one person when the whole team(offense) was bad shows an agenda.

I was clarifying BF4E's point. He said

 

for 80 yards!!!

 

Fitz was 25 of 37 for 268 yds 1 TD 2 INT's (longest pass) 35 yds

EJ was 21 44 225 2 TD 2 INT's (longest pass) 80 yds

Funny the Bills has a 10-7 lead at the half and the Houston O only scored 9 points in the 2nd half to the Bills 7.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201409280htx.htm

We get it - you blame EJ for scoring more points on O than the Texans we get it.

so take your own advice and let it go!!!!

It sounds like he's presenting arguments for an anti-EJ agenda. The Bills D allowed less points than the Texans. And the Bills had a lead. And the offense outproduced the Texans O. Sounds like every unit did their job, but we still lost. How?

[The Wiz]

I was clarifying BF4E's point. He said

 

It sounds like he's presenting arguments for an anti-EJ agenda. The Bills D allowed less points than the Texans. And the Bills had a lead. And the offense outproduced the Texans O. Sounds like every unit did their job, but we still lost. How?

Mediocre QB play, OLine and coaching.

 

Defense was decent/good but FG's are still points.

 

He's not presenting it that way. You're reading it that way.

 

Who was to blame for the loss against the Raiders? Just curious.

Edited July 24, 2015 by The Wiz

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Maybe John from Hemet can add something about that stat, I didn't feel or notice that stat as factual.

Really dude. You're questioning me on a stat that you could easily look up in five seconds. I'm not even going to take the time to link the box score from that game because I've already done it in this very thread.

 

Look, I harp on the Houston game and people say "oh well he played bad against Houston? Well so did Joe Flacco one time." And then I say, well no, he played just as bad against San Diego and his entire 2014 offseason and preseason were more concerning to me than those two games combined. And then I get, "we get it, you hate EJ Manuel..." Why can't I just f***ing say, "look, I'm rooting for the guy but if you put a gun to my head and said, 'do you think EJ Manuel will develop into a reliable starting QB for the Bills and they will roll him out as their starter in two years no problem?' my guess would be that that is less than likely to happen." But then OC in Buffalo chimes in and says that you are not allowed to even opine at this stage as to whether or not he could become good. And then Bills fan 4 life will accuse me of saying something I didn't say and then I will lay out a perfectly articulate rebuttal to his post that makes him look ridiculous and then he won't respond and around and around we go...

 

Guys I do not have an outlandish opinion on this subject. We get it that EJ Manuel is your first and only son but my God, when more than one of you have sunken to denying the validity of the box score from the Houston game, that might be time to say, "hey guys can we all just agree to see what happens here?" You're not going to prove to me that EJ Manuel is going to be good because Doug Marrone or 14 games or Kyle Orton sucked too or (gasp) you don't believe the box score from the Houston game, nor am I going to convince you that most sane human beings have seen enough to believe that it is less than likely (not impossible!) that he develops into a franchise QB. I can't freaking wait for September.

 

Go Bills!

Edited July 24, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[metzelaars_lives]

Yes. EJ lost us the game by being expected to pass 44 times against one of the best pass rushers in the league(if not the best) and having **** for a running game(which I will blame on the Oline).

 

How is it his fault?

How is it completely on him?

Did he play bad? yes. But so did the rest of the offense.

 

Somehow it's EJ's fault for needing to pass 44 times because he was calling the plays.

 

You don't like EJ, we get that.; you don't have to. But putting blame on one person when the whole team(offense) was bad shows an agenda.

So you got one guy (Gugny) saying that the Bills run game was "dominant" in the Houston game and another one here saying it was "s**t." At one point can we all just agree that EJ Manuel played startlingly bad against the Houston Texans last fall. Forget about everything else for a second, take a deep breath and just admit it. But Marro- stop. Just come to terms with it. Does the Houston game alone prove that he is inept. NO! But let's stop trying to defend the poor guy's performance in the Houston game.

[Fixxxer]

Really dude. You're questioning me on a stat that you could easily look up in five seconds. I'm not even going to take the time to link the box score from that game because I've already done it in this very thread.

 

Look, I harp on the Houston game and people say "oh well he played bad against Houston? Well so did Joe Flacco one time." And then I say, well no, he played just as bad against San Diego and his entire 2014 offseason and preseason were more concerning to me than those two games combined. And then I get, "we get it, you hate EJ Manuel..." Why can't I just f***ing say, "look, I'm rooting for the guy but if you put a gun to my head and said, 'do you think EJ Manuel will develop into a reliable starting QB for the Bills and they will roll him out as their starter in two years no problem?' my guess would be that that is less than likely to happen." But then OC in Buffalo chimes in and says that you are not allowed to even opine at this stage as to whether or not he could become good. And then Bills fan 4 life will accuse me of saying something I didn't say and then I will lay out a perfectly articulate rebuttal to his post that makes him look ridiculous and then he won't respond and around and around we go...

 

Guys I do not have an outlandish opinion on this subject. We get it that EJ Manuel is your first and only son but my God, when more than one of you have sunken to denying the validity of the box score from the Houston game, that might be time to say, "hey guys can we all just agree to see what happens here?" You're not going to prove to me that EJ Manuel is going to be good because Doug Marrone or 14 games or Kyle Orton sucked too or (gasp) you don't believe the box score from the Houston game, nor am I going to convince you that most sane human beings have seen enough to believe that it is less than likely (not impossible!) that he develops into a franchise QB. I can't freaking wait for September.

 

Go Bills!

 

I'm quoting you but I'm asking John about it, given that he recently re-watched the game as I did. Relax dude, I don't need you to take time for something that I already thanked you for.

[John from Riverside]

So you got one guy (Gugny) saying that the Bills run game was "dominant" in the Houston game and another one here saying it was "s**t." At one point can we all just agree that EJ Manuel played startlingly bad against the Houston Texans last fall. Forget about everything else for a second, take a deep breath and just admit it. But Marro- stop. Just come to terms with it. Does the Houston game alone prove that he is inept. NO! But let's stop trying to defend the poor guy's performance in the Houston game.

Sorry Metz....I dont agree that he played "startingly" bad

 

What you have is a QB that was in the starting position of a 2-1 team going into that game.......the game where he really did not play well was against the chargers.....along with the rest of the team

 

THen he throw 2 picks (one of which should have been pass interference) but I digress....his head coach panicked.....and the rest is history.

[The Wiz]

So you got one guy (Gugny) saying that the Bills run game was "dominant" in the Houston game and another one here saying it was "s**t." At one point can we all just agree that EJ Manuel played startlingly bad against the Houston Texans last fall. Forget about everything else for a second, take a deep breath and just admit it. But Marro- stop. Just come to terms with it. Does the Houston game alone prove that he is inept. NO! But let's stop trying to defend the poor guy's performance in the Houston game.

Did you miss the part where I said EJ played bad in that game? Because I did and so did the rest of the offense.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Yes. EJ lost us the game by being expected to pass 44 times against one of the best pass rushers in the league(if not the best) and having **** for a running game(which I will blame on the Oline).

 

How is it his fault?

How is it completely on him?

Did he play bad? yes. But so did the rest of the offense.

 

Somehow it's EJ's fault for needing to pass 44 times because he was calling the plays.

 

You don't like EJ, we get that.; you don't have to. But putting blame on one person when the whole team(offense) was bad shows an agenda.

Let me guess Chan's reply

I don't understand what you are saying.

 

Mediocre QB play, OLine and coaching.

 

Defense was decent/good but FG's are still points.

 

He's not presenting it that way. You're reading it that way.

 

Who was to blame for the loss against the Raiders? Just curious.

close enough on his reply

 

Thanks for spelling it out for him.

Raiders game -- EJ of course. He was holding the clip board (ipad) upside down.

Edited July 24, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[Beerball]

So you got one guy (Gugny) saying that the Bills run game was "dominant" in the Houston game and another one here saying it was "s**t." At one point can we all just agree that EJ Manuel played startlingly bad against the Houston Texans last fall. Forget about everything else for a second, take a deep breath and just admit it. But Marro- stop. Just come to terms with it. Does the Houston game alone prove that he is inept. NO! But let's stop trying to defend the poor guy's performance in the Houston game.

 

for the record, Gugny is rarely, if ever, wrong.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Moron should have benched Orton for losing those 2 games in a row and being 3-3

[The Wiz]

Let me guess Chan's reply

I don't understand what you are saying.

 

close enough on his reply

 

Thanks for spelling it out for him.

Raiders game -- EJ of course. He was holding the clip board (ipad) upside down.

He must have not realized the ipad's gyroscope was connected to the field of play lean the field in favor of the Raiders.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

He must have not realized the ipad's gyroscope was connected to the field of play lean the field in favor of the Raiders.

[GunnerBill]

If you aren't good enough, you don't start 44 games with the same team. They move on or you get benched. Playing more games is a direct result of Tanny proving himself.

 

It is also, you must confess, a result of the coaches sticking with him. Go back to the week after his capitulation in Buffalo last September..... Philbin refusing to commit to Tannehill being the starter for the following week until the Wednesday I think it was. Clearly Philbin had to go home and sleep on that and make a call. He did that and Tannehill played well the next week and went on to have a pretty solid year. 2 weeks later Marrone made a different call.... now am I saying that EJ would definitely have made that same step? No. But don't pretend that the Dolphins didn't get close to pulling to cord on Tannehill he proved himself when in the last chance saloon EJ was never given that chance he was benched (and I am not even arguing wrongly I am just saying that it was as much Philbin as Tannehill that led to the latter "proving himself").