Chef Jim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I always wondered why people use "big" for Pharm, Tobacco, Oil... Is there a "small" oil? They use big because Evil makes them sound stupid but that's what they mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 They use big because Evil makes them sound stupid but that's what they mean. We need to start including other stuff. Big Environmentalists. Big Guns, Big Religion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I always wondered why people use "big" for Pharm, Tobacco, Oil... Because Big Advertising says it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I always wondered why people use "big" for Pharm, Tobacco, Oil... Is there a "small" oil? in fact there is: http://www.npr.org/2015/02/05/384061583/planning-through-oil-booms-helps-independent-drillers-weather-the-busts. yall really need to listen to npr on your morning commute. they have answers to many of your questions The element that throws the system off is envy and/or guilt masquerading as compassion. If you have a public health care system there necessarily have to be spending limits put in place because (as I've said here at least a dozen times) you can't provide everyone unlimited access to the most advanced medical technology known to man, because we literally don't have the resources for it. The problem the "compassionate" crowd has is you having the ability to willingly spend your own money on treatment that isn't covered. See, to them it's a problem, not because it hurts anyone else, but because it's not "fair" that you got to live where someone else didn't. So they'd prefer that you for too. And they call it compassion. you've got it wrong. even in countries with well established socialized medicine, there is tiered care. wealthier people have more options. and for me, 9and most other liberals i know) that's ok. as long as a minimum, basic, reasonable level of care is provided for everyone that isn't. what's different in the US has been that middle class people have often been afforded cadillac level care through their employers. that's changing rapidly especially through higher copays and things like 200k treatment regimens. it will soon approach the same tiered levels of the social;ized nations if the current trajectory in insurance and drug and treatment costs continues. the thing is, most people don't realize that this has largely already occurred until they get really sick. Edited June 2, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 in fact there is: http://www.npr.org/2015/02/05/384061583/planning-through-oil-booms-helps-independent-drillers-weather-the-busts. yall really need to listen to npr on your morning commute. they have answers to many of your questions you've got it wrong. even in countries with well established socialized medicine, there is tiered care. wealthier people have more options. and for me, 9and most other liberals i know) that's ok. as long as a minimum, basic, reasonable level of care is provided for everyone that isn't. what's different in the US has been that middle class people have often been afforded cadillac level care through their employers. that's changing rapidly especially through higher copays and things like 200k treatment regimens. it will soon approach the same tiered levels of the social;ized nations if the current trajectory in insurance and drug and treatment costs continues. the thing is, most people don't realize that this has largely already occurred until they get really sick. So, the "problem" is that the middle class were getting a lot better care under the private system than under the socialized model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) So, the "problem" is that the middle class were getting a lot better care under the private system than under the socialized model? they were. that's changing very quickly even under a for profit, private insurance system. Edited June 2, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 they were. that's changing very quickly. I wish Dems on the national level were as honest as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 I wish Dems on the national level were as honest as you are. i think you sense that i'm attributing this change to the aca. I'm not. it's about ridiculous costs for goods and services in medicine as clearly demonstrated for cancer treatments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 i've discussed advance directives with 4 people so far today. that's typical. will everyone i talked to refuse heroic measures? of course not. but discussing it openly is the way to proceed towards better end of life choices. sorry to hear that. hospice can be a godsend if done right. i would never agree to being involved in active euthanasia, however. some doctors will: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/05/21/408455816/coded-talk-about-assisted-suicide-can-leave-families-confused Hospice was a godsend. It would have been unbearable to spend those 3 weeks across the parking lot in the hospital. But the Hospice folks don't get to make the rules, so all they could do is advise we stop feeding her and give her enough drugs so she's wasn't in discomfort. Then we waited. No one should be forced to participate in active euthanasia, just as no one should be restricted from it by the government or medical establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hospice was a godsend. It would have been unbearable to spend those 3 weeks across the parking lot in the hospital. But the Hospice folks don't get to make the rules, so all they could do is advise we stop feeding her and give her enough drugs so she's wasn't in discomfort. Then we waited. No one should be forced to participate in active euthanasia, just as no one should be restricted from it by the government or medical establishment. So because euthanasia is not available in most states you were forced to........sorry I'm not going to say it. Damn we give more end of life dignity to our !@#$ing cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 i think you sense that i'm attributing this change to the aca. I'm not. it's about ridiculous costs for goods and services in medicine as clearly demonstrated for cancer treatments. I see. I'm more inclined to attribute the difference more to the changing nature of insurance and how it is regulated, but we could discuss that for days. I don't see a big problem with having some minimal level of medical service for indigents, but I'm guessing where we differ is the level of service provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 in fact there is: http://www.npr.org/2015/02/05/384061583/planning-through-oil-booms-helps-independent-drillers-weather-the-busts. yall really need to listen to npr on your morning commute. they have answers to many of your questions you've got it wrong. even in countries with well established socialized medicine, there is tiered care. wealthier people have more options. and for me, 9and most other liberals i know) that's ok. as long as a minimum, basic, reasonable level of care is provided for everyone that isn't. what's different in the US has been that middle class people have often been afforded cadillac level care through their employers. that's changing rapidly especially through higher copays and things like 200k treatment regimens. it will soon approach the same tiered levels of the social;ized nations if the current trajectory in insurance and drug and treatment costs continues. the thing is, most people don't realize that this has largely already occurred until they get really sick. If you think that the insurance and drug companies are the bigger reason for movement to tiered services as opposed to ACA, you're still clueless. The point all along has been to open up the true cost of healthcare to the consumers, so they know exactly how much procedures cost and what it's really costing them. How many NY union members know that their family healthcare premium is >$2K/month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hospice was a godsend. It would have been unbearable to spend those 3 weeks across the parking lot in the hospital. But the Hospice folks don't get to make the rules, so all they could do is advise we stop feeding her and give her enough drugs so she's wasn't in discomfort. Then we waited. No one should be forced to participate in active euthanasia, just as no one should be restricted from it by the government or medical establishment. I just watched an aunt go through that, and an uncle before her. It was...startling. "You mean...you can't feed her?" "No." "You can't even give her anything to drink?" "No." "But you can give her all the morphine she can handle?" "Yep." "But not too much, because that'll kill her?" "Yep." "So basically you're required to torture her to death?" "Uh...yeah, pretty much." Please...don't ever put me in hospice. Just shoot me in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 they were. that's changing very quickly even under a for profit, private insurance system. What country has that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 I just watched an aunt go through that, and an uncle before her. It was...startling. "You mean...you can't feed her?" "No." "You can't even give her anything to drink?" "No." "But you can give her all the morphine she can handle?" "Yep." "But not too much, because that'll kill her?" "Yep." "So basically you're required to torture her to death?" "Uh...yeah, pretty much." Please...don't ever put me in hospice. Just shoot me in the head. nope. from the npr piece: this is how it usually works. it's how i do it.: If Hope had asked Stanford medical ethicist David Magnus, he would have explained what assisted suicide is – and what it isn't. It is legal for people to take or give large doses of narcotics to relieve pain, even if a known side-effect is that it may hasten death. "The difference really has to do with intent," Magnus says. "And that's a tricky thing because it has to do with what's going on in the mind." If you think that the insurance and drug companies are the bigger reason for movement to tiered services as opposed to ACA, you're still clueless. The point all along has been to open up the true cost of healthcare to the consumers, so they know exactly how much procedures cost and what it's really costing them. How many NY union members know that their family healthcare premium is >$2K/month? the point is the first step to single payer. shhhh…it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 nope. from the npr piece: this is how it usually works. it's how i do it.: If Hope had asked Stanford medical ethicist David Magnus, he would have explained what assisted suicide is – and what it isn't. It is legal for people to take or give large doses of narcotics to relieve pain, even if a known side-effect is that it may hasten death. "The difference really has to do with intent," Magnus says. "And that's a tricky thing because it has to do with what's going on in the mind." the point is the first step to single payer. shhhh…it's working. Well, I'm glad to know that NPR has fact-checked the conversation I actually had with a hospice worker and found I was lying. You !@#$ing tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Well, I'm glad to know that NPR has fact-checked the conversation I actually had with a hospice worker and found I was lying. You !@#$ing tool. hmmm. hospice nurse/stanford ethicist/someone who gives actual orders to hospice nurses. i'm betting you can guess who are most likely well versed on the issue. no implication that you are lying. it's likely that the hospice nurse didn't understand the law or even more likely, didn't like the orders he/she was given by the doctor writing them. Edited June 3, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 hmmm. hospice nurse/stanford ethicist/someone who gives actual orders to hospice nurses. i'm betting you can guess who are most likely well versed on the issue. no implication that you are lying. it's likely that the hospice nurse didn't understand the law or even more likely, didn't like the orders he/she was given by the doctor writing them. Because we all know everyone follows orders and laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Please...don't ever put me in hospice. Just shoot me in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts