3rdnlng Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This is one aspect of the new normal that we haven't really touched on much. That is, with all the internet spying etc., will people start to finally wake up and realize it too late. Then we'll be like the dude in 1984 who was always in search of someplace where he couldn't be seen by Big Brother. People will have less freedom to do and say what they want on the internet knowing that it can and will be used against them. So, they will try to share as little personal opinion as possible and only trumpet the company (government) line for fear of retribution, resulting in less freedom. be like gator. A little science fictionish I admit, but I could see it happening. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 This is one aspect of the new normal that we haven't really touched on much. That is, with all the internet spying etc., will people start to finally wake up and realize it too late. Then we'll be like the dude in 1984 who was always in search of someplace where he couldn't be seen by Big Brother. People will have less freedom to do and say what they want on the internet knowing that it can and will be used against them. So, they will try to share as little personal opinion as possible and only trumpet the company (government) line for fear of retribution, resulting in less freedom. A little science fictionish I admit, but I could see it happening. Read Gator's posts throughout these 29 pages and you'll see that it's not science fictionish at all. Fixed. Damn, beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Read Gator's posts throughout these 29 pages and you'll see that it's not science fictionish at all. Damn, beat me to it. No, don't do that. For God's sake, don't do that. You don't deserve that suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No, don't do that. For God's sake, don't do that. You don't deserve that suffering. Hey, Reddog is still a rookie here. A little hazing is perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hey, Reddog is still a rookie here. A little hazing is perfectly fine. Yeah, that's what I'm doing when I call him an idiot. I don't send him to !@#$ing Gitmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Yeah, that's what I'm doing when I call him an idiot. I don't send him to !@#$ing Gitmo. Damn, you've changed. You used to be like a hockey enforcer. Now you just write children's books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Read Gator's posts throughout these 29 pages and you'll see that it's not science fictionish at all. Damn, beat me to it. Oh no, we are back to being worse than Nazi Germany again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Oh no, we are back to being worse than Nazi Germany again! Nazi Germany had stronger privacy laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Nazi Germany had stronger privacy laws. And national health care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 And national health care! And a booming economy with low unemployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 And a booming economy with low unemployment. And a nice air force that Charles Lindberg was really impressed with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/13/nsa-surveillance-congress-usa-freedom-act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) The Section 215 Wrecking Ball This was not the only response. The dismay about the bulk collection of phone records was broad; many Americans had assumed that this was the sort of thing for which the government needed an individualized warrant, rather than a dragnet. President Barack Obama and other defenders of the program said, though, that the practice was legal under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which was first passed after September 11, 2001, and which allows the government to collect “tangible things” that are “relevant” to a particular investigation. That rationale seemed dubious. The N.S.A. had relied on the secretly operating Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court. Without access to its classified legal interpretations, a citizen, or a congressman, even one reading the bill carefully, would still not have known that the assembly of the phone records of just about every American into a searchable database was an activity the law envisioned. (Indeed, James Clapper, the director of National Intelligence, haddenied that such a thing was taking place in testimony before Congress. He is a defendant in the A.C.L.U. case.) But the N.S.A.’s story was that it was acting in perfect accord with Section 215, and it has largely been allowed to stick to it. Bulk collection, with some tweaks, has continued. Section 215, however, expires on June 1st, two weeks from now. Congress has, basically, three options. One is to let Section 215 die, and, presumably, the bulk-collection program with it. (But that might allow the N.S.A. simply to tear up the previous order and look for another route to the same end.) A second option is to bring the program above board: pass a new law that would allow the N.S.A. more controlled access to what it said was valuable information. This is the U.S.A. Freedom Act, and it has both Republican and Democratic supporters, including Patrick Leahy, of Vermont, who has a strong record on civil liberties. The White House has said that the President will sign it. The House passed a version on Wednesday, by a vote of 338-88, and sent it to the Senate. But it may run into trouble there, because of a third option: to extend Section 215 and, implicitly, accept the N.S.A.’s interpretation and let it keep collecting everyone’s records with what amounts to impunity. This is the option favored by many Senate Republicans, foremost among them the Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, who refers to it as a “clean” renewal of Section 215. https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/the-section-215-wrecking-ball Edited May 15, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 The Section 215 Wrecking Ball https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/the-section-215-wrecking-ball There is no way Congress can get the NSA to stop collecting data. What they legislate is completely irrelevant, since it can be vetoed, changed by regulation, or "interpreted" by the White House. Thank Bush's signing statements and Obama's "legislating from the podium" for that. Everyone has what they wished for: an executive that can overrule the opposition party at a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 House Rules Committee blocks attempts to add privacy protections to NSA Reform bill: Among the amendments that now can’t be considered was a measure that would have prevented the NSA from performing warrantless searches on databases that include the communications of U.S. persons — a practice that Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., described as the “backdoor search loophole.” The amendment, which had bipartisan support from prominent civil liberties advocates including Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., and Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., would have also prevented the NSA from weakening encryption standards. Another measure, sponsored by Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Wisc., would have put a check on Executive Order 12333 — a crucial, secretive rule through which the executive branch granted itself spying authorities. The amendment would ban the use of the order to collect data in bulk on American citizens without a warrant. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/13/house-reform-committee-thwarts-effort-add-privacy-protections-nsa-reform/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 House Rules Committee blocks attempts to add privacy protections to NSA Reform bill: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/13/house-reform-committee-thwarts-effort-add-privacy-protections-nsa-reform/ That link has a link to the Times story: The push for reform is the strongest demonstration yet of a decade-long shift from a singular focus on national security at the expense of civil liberties to a new balance in the post-Snowden era. Under the bipartisan bills in the House and Senate, the Patriot Act would be changed to prohibit bulk collection, and sweeps that had operated under the guise of so-called National Security Letters issued by the F.B.I. would end. The data would instead be stored by the phone companies themselves, and could be accessed by intelligence agencies only after approval of the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court. The legislation would also create a panel of experts to advise the FISA court on privacy, civil liberties, and technology matters, while requiring the declassification of all significant FISA court opinions. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/politics/patriot-act-faces-revisions-backed-by-both-parties.html?_r=1 Seems fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Former NSA Inspector General says keeping bulk collection secret was a mistake: But in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney’s office was so determined to assert untrammeled executive power that any internal debate about going public or telling Congress was “academic” at the time, said Brenner, who served as the agency’s in-house watchdog from 2002 to 2006. Brenner published his prepared remarks Friday morning, just before delivering them at the National Security Agency headquarters at an event marking the 40th Anniversary of the Church Committee, the special congressional committee that exposed surveillance abuse and led to the passage of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Brenner concluded that the program blatantly violated FISA, and he recalled asking his NSA colleagues why the White House didn’t just go to Congress and get the law changed. But, he noted: “This was actually an academic question, because policy was being driven, and driven hard, by [Cheney legal counsel David] Addington, who detested the FISA statute.” Brenner said bulk collection was a part of the now “mostly declassified” program called STELLAR WIND, which “was run directly by the Office of the Vice President and put under the direct personal control of the Vice President’s counsel, David Addington.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Oh no! The new bill is even WORSE than the old Patriot Act??? “It completely fails to meaningfully curtail mass surveillance and actually codifies some of the worst modern spying practices into law,” said Evan Greer, campaign director of Fight for the Future, an Internet-freedom advocacy group. Activists also find little comfort in the fact that the bill has drawn support from the intelligence community and tech firms. An earlier version of the proposal passed the House last year but fell two votes of overcoming a filibuster in the Senate. The current bill is worse, Greer said, because it weakens transparency requirements and makes it easier for the government to cite “state secrets” and withhold information from a new “special advocate”created to serve as a watchdog for the FISA court. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/a-long-awaited-reform-to-the-usa-patriot-act/393197/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Oh no! The new bill is even WORSE than the old Patriot Act??? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/a-long-awaited-reform-to-the-usa-patriot-act/393197/ Of course. As DC Tom noted earlier, it ain't gonna stop no matter what Congress does. Tech lobbyists love it because it takes a lot of IBM Super Computers to run this and software and armies of consultants. The proper palms will be greased. Money talks. Business as usual ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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