BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why do you think EJ might have the clutch play factor? we all know nothing said to you will make you post anything different that EJ sucks in short my reply 4-6 as a rookie in a F'dU fast paced hurry up offense 6-8 as a starter with under 1 full season of play. Why not agree to drop this for 6 months. OK? If EJ isn't the starter you can say I told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 was I talking to you? No, you butted in adding to the argument. thanks for proving my point and irritating every poster sick of the BS. good day, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 the difference is I wasn't responding with insults. Can we put this aside for a while? Are you man enough to do so? I know I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 the difference is I wasn't responding with insults. Can we put this aside for a while? Are you man enough to do so? I know I am You can stop posting in my topic whenever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 PLEASE stop calling people trolls. Your posts are so weird sometimes that lots of people think you may be trolling. But yes, let's be friends. Here is the end of the argument until training camp, OK: You think the jury is out on EJ. You're not saying he is going to be the franchise QB but you think there is no way of knowing for sure; it's still way too early. If pressed though, yes, you believe (you have stated) that EJ Manuel will be the Bills starting QB on opening day in 2017. I agree with you that the jury is still out. However, I respectfully opine, based on what I have seen thus far, that the odds are rather slim that EJ develops into a franchise QB. I would give the odds of him being our starting QB on opening day in 2017 at about 5:1. It would surprise me if he won the job from Matt Cassel in fact. I sincerely hope he does. But I do not agree with some of you that two years is still way too early to make any judgments whatsoever on a QB's future success. Have some QB's looked one way after two years and their careers ended up drastically different? Yes of course. That's all. I am clearly one of those that believes we have not seen enough from Manuel to know if he will be a quality starter in the NFL. I would also agree with you that two years is often enough time to get a pretty clear picture of the trajectory of any given QB's career path. For me, those are not contradictory statements. Had Manuel been able to go through two full training camps, played two full pre-seasons, and played two full regular seasons, and looked the way he did the last two games he played, I would probably feel much the way you do. However, I think there is a huge difference in the developmental curve for players who get consistent game day experience and those that do not. For me, I really do not know how much the lack of continuity (missing time to injuries) affected his development the first year, and he only played the first four games of his second year. I also was not a big fan of the offensive coaching staff he played under. These are not EXCUSES for Manuel's play. I get so tired of hearing that response. I am simply saying I do not know what, if any, effect, those things had on his development. I really do not know. You will not find any post I have ever written that says anything more than that. I saw a lot of troubling things in Manuel's play; however, I saw some good things too. Enough, to want to give him a chance to be evaluated by Greg Roman, an offensive coach whom I have immense respect for. While I would like to see what Manuel would do in one full season under Roman, If Roman does not believe Manuel is the guy after training camp and pre-season this year, then that is good enough for me. I understand that the things I mentioned above do not weigh as heavily in your opinion of Manuel as they do for me. That is fine. It is like jurors looking at evidence in a trial: Each juror has the right to give any particular piece of evidence as little or as much weight as they feel is appropriate. I can respect your opinion and I am not trying to change it. You may be absolutely right. But, then again, you might not be. At least you acknowledge that. There are some on this board who tend to crusade and ridicule as opposed to engaging in legitimate debate. At this point, barring some sort of unforseen circumstances, Manuel is going to be competing for the starting position. IMHO, threads like this serve no useful purpose. We are not going to trade Manuel for Tannehill or any other legitimate starter. Most of us are not going to change our opinions either - at least at this point. Only time will tell. I hope Manuel improves dramatically under Roman. That would be the best possible scenario given the present situation at QB. If he does not, I will be more than happy to agree with you. Until the end of training camp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I am clearly one of those that believes we have not seen enough from Manuel to know if he will be a quality starter in the NFL. I would also agree with you that two years is often enough time to get a pretty clear picture of the trajectory of any given QB's career path. For me, those are not contradictory statements. Had Manuel been able to go through two full training camps, played two full pre-seasons, and played two full regular seasons, and looked the way he did the last two games he played, I would probably feel much the way you do. However, I think there is a huge difference in the developmental curve for players who get consistent game day experience and those that do not. For me, I really do not know how much the lack of continuity (missing time to injuries) affected his development the first year, and he only played the first four games of his second year. I also was not a big fan of the offensive coaching staff he played under. These are not EXCUSES for Manuel's play. I get so tired of hearing that response. I am simply saying I do not know what, if any, effect, those things had on his development. I really do not know. You will not find any post I have ever written that says anything more than that. I saw a lot of troubling things in Manuel's play; however, I saw some good things too. Enough, to want to give him a chance to be evaluated by Greg Roman, an offensive coach whom I have immense respect for. While I would like to see what Manuel would do in one full season under Roman, If Roman does not believe Manuel is the guy after training camp and pre-season this year, then that is good enough for me. I understand that the things I mentioned above do not weigh as heavily in your opinion of Manuel as they do for me. That is fine. It is like jurors looking at evidence in a trial: Each juror has the right to give any particular piece of evidence as little or as much weight as they feel is appropriate. I can respect your opinion and I am not trying to change it. You may be absolutely right. But, then again, you might not be. At least you acknowledge that. There are some on this board who tend to crusade and ridicule as opposed to engaging in legitimate debate. At this point, barring some sort of unforseen circumstances, Manuel is going to be competing for the starting position. IMHO, threads like this serve no useful purpose. We are not going to trade Manuel for Tannehill or any other legitimate starter. Most of us are not going to change our opinions either - at least at this point. Only time will tell. I hope Manuel improves dramatically under Roman. That would be the best possible scenario given the present situation at QB. If he does not, I will be more than happy to agree with you. Until the end of training camp... Good stuff. Post more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 He was mediocre against the Bears. I think ya'll scapegoat Marrone too much. Where's the rule to not tell young QB's to not turn to ball over? Are they supposed to tell him turnovers are great? Chuck Pagano isn't a great coach, Luck did fine. Norv Turner is brutal, I don't see anyone blaming him for Teddy's mistakes. Tony Sparano, a horrific coach, doesn't get blamed when Carr makes a mistake. Marty for Geno? Where's the defense that he has an idiot coach? I've never heard it. Also, all the WR's mutinied on EJ. That's who cares how he looks in practice. I mean, wasn't Marrone editing the tapes because EJ was getting picked off all the time in practice? Is that Marrone's fault or EJ's fault? Who sees that? His teammates that would rather have Orton playing QB? Are you blaming Marrone for keeping EJ healthy? You know why he only has 14 games right? It's because he got hurt 3 separate times. Now, Marrone says, "don't take chances with your body," and he's a bad coach because of that? EJ has never been a big runner. Not in college, not in the NFL. His injuries are a key reason why he has so few games to evaluate his play. And you want his coach to let him get hurt more. Genius. Funny how you ran to the side of Morron and The Hack and defend them all winter, yet drill a qb that was labelled as raw and a project because he's done exactly as he was supposed to do. It wasn't a big deal that Morron didn't give Ej a qb coach his rookie season, unles you call an OC that's in over his head a viable qb coach. Ej had no one to learn from for an entire year. He goes 2-2 and is pulled. Does nothing but root the team on a work hard to become a better qb. Am I an EJ believer? No. Do I think he has a chance to put in work and become a qb that can win games in the right system? I do. Kinda funny what happened to Morron and hack don't ya think? Thanks saint doug!! You turned this franchise around and gave us all hope.....the moment you opted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 You can stop posting in my topic whenever you want. sir, might I comment, If you don't want people arguing against you "in your thread". Lock it. that would solve a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Funny how you ran to the side of Morron and The Hack and defend them all winter, yet drill a qb that was labelled as raw and a project because he's done exactly as he was supposed to do. It wasn't a big deal that Morron didn't give Ej a qb coach his rookie season, unles you call an OC that's in over his head a viable qb coach. Ej had no one to learn from for an entire year. He goes 2-2 and is pulled. Does nothing but root the team on a work hard to become a better qb. Am I an EJ believer? No. Do I think he has a chance to put in work and become a qb that can win games in the right system? I do. Kinda funny what happened to Morron and hack don't ya think? Thanks saint doug!! You turned this franchise around and gave us all hope.....the moment you opted out. Whaley got Kevin Kolb for EJ's mentor. He's hardly blame free. You actually mentioned nothing I said earlier. Marrone may have given up on the team, but the team gave up on EJ. That's a problem. sir, might I comment, If you don't want people arguing against you "in your thread". Lock it. that would solve a lot. I don't mind arguing, I mind you complaining. Either say something new or stop posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I am clearly one of those that believes we have not seen enough from Manuel to know if he will be a quality starter in the NFL. I would also agree with you that two years is often enough time to get a pretty clear picture of the trajectory of any given QB's career path. For me, those are not contradictory statements. Had Manuel been able to go through two full training camps, played two full pre-seasons, and played two full regular seasons, and looked the way he did the last two games he played, I would probably feel much the way you do. However, I think there is a huge difference in the developmental curve for players who get consistent game day experience and those that do not. For me, I really do not know how much the lack of continuity (missing time to injuries) affected his development the first year, and he only played the first four games of his second year. I also was not a big fan of the offensive coaching staff he played under. These are not EXCUSES for Manuel's play. I get so tired of hearing that response. I am simply saying I do not know what, if any, effect, those things had on his development. I really do not know. You will not find any post I have ever written that says anything more than that. I saw a lot of troubling things in Manuel's play; however, I saw some good things too. Enough, to want to give him a chance to be evaluated by Greg Roman, an offensive coach whom I have immense respect for. While I would like to see what Manuel would do in one full season under Roman, If Roman does not believe Manuel is the guy after training camp and pre-season this year, then that is good enough for me. I understand that the things I mentioned above do not weigh as heavily in your opinion of Manuel as they do for me. That is fine. It is like jurors looking at evidence in a trial: Each juror has the right to give any particular piece of evidence as little or as much weight as they feel is appropriate. I can respect your opinion and I am not trying to change it. You may be absolutely right. But, then again, you might not be. At least you acknowledge that. There are some on this board who tend to crusade and ridicule as opposed to engaging in legitimate debate. At this point, barring some sort of unforseen circumstances, Manuel is going to be competing for the starting position. IMHO, threads like this serve no useful purpose. We are not going to trade Manuel for Tannehill or any other legitimate starter. Most of us are not going to change our opinions either - at least at this point. Only time will tell. I hope Manuel improves dramatically under Roman. That would be the best possible scenario given the present situation at QB. If he does not, I will be more than happy to agree with you. Until the end of training camp... Good stuff. Post more. I agree, good stuff and post more! billsfan1959 - that's very much how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Whaley got Kevin Kolb for EJ's mentor. He's hardly blame free. I don't mind arguing, I mind you complaining. Either say something new or stop posting. FTR I ofter say "something" people agree with. With your bias, you choose to twist many people's meanings to your "advantage" and you also refuse to let an issue rest. BTW - thanks you for being a man and wanting to stop arguing. Kolb was there to mentor him? Bills QB Kevin Kolb injured in freak accident Kevin Kolb leaves game with ' concussion-like symptoms... Kolb was out of commission after he tripped on a floor mat and then weeks later placed on injured reserve on August 30 Kolb retired due to Post-concussion syndrome, claiming to still have lingering effects from 3 career concussions Edited March 17, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) FTR I ofter say "something" people agree with. With your bias, you choose to twist many people's meanings to your "advantage" and you also refuse to let an issue rest. BTW - thanks you for being a man and wanting to stop arguing. Kolb was there to mentor him? Bills QB Kevin Kolb injured in freak accident Kevin Kolb leaves game with ' concussion-like symptoms... Kolb was out of commission after he tripped on a floor mat and then weeks later placed on injured reserve on August 30 Kolb retired due to Post-concussion syndrome, claiming to still have lingering effects from 3 career concussions Edited March 17, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think I'm going to think of that as the concussion emoticon from now on. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Whaley got Kevin Kolb for EJ's mentor. He's hardly blame free. You actually mentioned nothing I said earlier. Marrone may have given up on the team, but the team gave up on EJ. That's a problem. I don't mind arguing, I mind you complaining. Either say something new or stop posting. I don't have to mention anything you said earlier. You know what you said. I'm not looking to argue at all. Nothing to argue about. You jumped on anyone and everyone who complained about Marrone and Hackett and you do the same about EJ. My only opinion on Ej is that he has a lot of talent physically but has much work to do as a qb. Unless he's improved a good deal since we last saw him, I don't want him as our starter. Just think it's funny how you blasted everyone for hating on our coaches while you do the same about our QB. Doesn't matter who quit on who Whaley brought in Kolb to help mentor.....and he got hurt......and Marrone still didn't think adding a qb coach might be a good idea. I don't think doug Whaley is in charge of hiring coaches. Pretty sure that's the head coaches job. Way to put your raw unpolished rookie qb in a position to succeed. Good job coaching him up too Hackett.....eh P.s- I could care less about what you mind and don't mind. Edited March 17, 2015 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 I don't have to mention anything you said earlier. You know what you said. I'm not looking to argue at all. Nothing to argue about. You jumped on anyone and everyone who complained about Marrone and Hackett and you do the same about EJ. My only opinion on Ej is that he has a lot of talent physically but has much work to do as a qb. Unless he's improved a good deal since we last saw him, I don't want him as our starter. Just think it's funny how you blasted everyone for hating on our coaches while you do the same about our QB. Doesn't matter who quit on who P.s- I could care less about what you mind and don't mind. PS I was talking to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 PS I was talking to someone else. Cool. Then pm him as opposed to making a thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Cool. Then pm him as opposed to making a thread Dear lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Dear lord. Are you sad that Marrone quit and Hackett let go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Cool. Then pm him as opposed to making a thread Is it no longer acceptable to address posters directly and have conversations within conversations? I just want to make sure I'm up to date on proper MB etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Are you sad that Marrone quit and Hackett let go?There just aren't enough "exasperated" emoticons in the world.Is it no longer acceptable to address posters directly and have conversations within conversations? I just want to make sure I'm up to date on proper MB etiquette.I think he's unaware of another quoted poster in that post. I don't see how he could be, but here we are. Edited March 18, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts