Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If you saw Johnny Unitas play on a regular basis, you'd know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If you saw Johnny Unitas play on a regular basis, you'd know. If you saw him in the second half of Superbowl 3, you'd know. A man among boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) People are over weighting comebacks. How about the better QB makes it a blowout by clicking early and often? People dismiss 9ers blowout wins on Montana's record as if he had nothing to do with the score. Every single pats SB .... win or lose .... had been close. How about holding it against Brady he never engineered a blowout ? Edited February 5, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Certainly, but it's not like Brady isn't a traditional dropback QB and he played, and thrived, in the same NFL that Peyton put up a pedestrian 11-13 post season record against. Manning is terrific, he's fantastic. But his post season struggles and inability to win more than one ring in his career really disqualifies him from any GOAT talk in my mind. How can someone make the argument that he's the greatest when his brother, whom people generally think far less of, has twice the rings and an 8-3 record in games that matter? Peyton has one of the best offensive minds in NFL history, that's why. You never hear about how Montana or Brady have that quality. Peyton is his own OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I do this professionally. They can claim anything they want to make a story. It doesn't make them right. Now you're done with this........You do what, exactly, professionally? Have opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The only answers that one could give in this poll and not expose the fact that they have no historical context and do not understand the game of football whatsoever, are Montana, Brady, unitas or I suppose the nobody option. I don't care about manning's beautiful mind or Marino's rocket arm. To get inside the big boy room you need the hardware. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The only answers that one could give in this poll and not expose the fact that they have no historical context and do not understand the game of football whatsoever, are Montana, Brady, unitas or I suppose the nobody option. I don't care about manning's beautiful mind or Marino's rocket arm. To get inside the big boy room you need the hardware. That's it. Elway has some hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Elway has some hardware.I've always been partial to Jeff Hostetler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The only answers that one could give in this poll and not expose the fact that they have no historical context and do not understand the game of football whatsoever, are Montana, Brady, unitas or I suppose the nobody option. I don't care about manning's beautiful mind or Marino's rocket arm. To get inside the big boy room you need the hardware. That's it. I really have to disagree on that- you could have a great quarterback stuck on a lousy team and he won't sniff a superbowl. I always believed that Ken O'Brien was a guy who could have done some really good things if he hadn't been stuck on the Jets. I also think if Boomer Esiason had played for the Bills in the early 90's, we'd have won a couple Superbowls- he should be in the Hall of Fame IMHO. Great quarterbacks are determined by a few things: 1. Accuracy- and I don't mean completion percentage (that means your receivers have talent and hold the ball) 2. Ability to read defenses (watch on film- how quickly do they progress through their reads) 3. Ability to manipulate the defense (look off safeties) 4. Ability to handle pressure (this is a limited skill, but needed) Much of this is subjective and some needs coach's film to see whatthe QB is doing You do what, exactly, professionally? Have opinions? Game statistics for one thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Elway has some hardware.So does manning. I would rank manning (1) ahead of elway (2) who I would rank ahead of Bradshaw (4). Not saying it's necessarily order of rings period. But anyone who is so blindly and stubbornly anti-pats that doesn't realize Brady is in the real conversation right now just doesn't know their history. And I think deflategate is a bigger deal than most. Edited February 5, 2015 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Game statistics for one thing You do what, exactly, with game stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I started watching in the late 70's so can't comment on the older QB's but, from this point on, it's Brady followed by Montana. Brady gets the nod for the following 2 reasons: Montana played with 12 offensive pro bowlers (including the GOAT WR) in his 4 SB wins; Brady played with just 2. Brady's 4 SB wins, 2 SB losses, 2 one and dones in the playoffs is superior to Montana's 4 SB wins, 3 one and dones in the playoffs. Unless you believe that getting eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs is somehow better than winning your way to the SB, then penalizing Brady for getting to the finish line more times than Montana is ludicrous ..... especially when the reason Montana didn't get to the finish line more often is because of his poor play in those playoff games ..... check out the 1 and done seasons between 85-87 when Montana did his best Peyton Manning imitation and stunk up the joint. Good thing for manning's legacy he lost to the colts and didn't suffer that nailbiter super loss which really tarnishes Russell Wilson's legacy. Wilson would've been better off not making the playoffs at all. This is a mathematical point proven by greggy t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
217014170 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 These guys are at the round table if we limit the discussion to the Super Bowl era. Bart Starr Bob Griese (standing at the table serving drinks - he is weakest of all) Terry Bradshaw Joe Montana John Elway Tom Brady Tom Brady and the Patriots have dominated the longest - ~13 years - in an era geared towards parody. In another sport, the Yankees were able to sustain a similar level of excellence. The big difference is that baseball has a soft cap/luxury tax model which makes it easier to keep core players together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Yup. Brady wouldn't have survived that era. He complains when he gets breathed on too hard now, imagine if he had LT teeing off on him 10x a game. He'd be a cripple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 You do what, exactly, with game stats? I keep stats during games, for one thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Marino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Marino? The "Greatest of All Glove Commercials" argument is next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Greatest coach-QB combo? I'm ready to concede that to Belichick - Brady, although Paul Brown - Otto Graham, Vince Lombardi - Bart Starr and Bill Walsh - Joe Montana have to come into the conversation, especially Brown and Graham. Greatest coach? Again, moral shortgivings aside, I'm ready to give that to Belichick over Brown, Lombardi, Shula, et al. What he has done as DC for the Giants, DC for the Jets and HC for the Patriots is really remarkable. One guy who doesn't get enough credit is Joe Gibbs. Winning three Super Bowls with three different (mostly pedestrian) QB's is an incredible feat. Brady as GOAT? I'm not convinced. He's at the table for sure. Great decision maker, very accurate, very clutch, great pocket presence - but, every time he is pressured like every other single QB in the league is presssured, he doesn't look all that special. You can talk about lack of HOF skill players during his career but the one thing he has had during his entire career is phenominal OL play. He is never, ever hit. Sometimes it seems like he has literally all day to make a throw. I think that there are QB's who could have duplicated what he has done at NE. Peyton Manning for sure wins same number of rings or more if he started with Belichick in 2000. I don't know if Brady wins the SB if he is on the GB team that Rogers won a SB with a few years back. That team had a lousy OL and Rogers still won a SB with it. Bottom line I think it's silly to just look at SB wins and say someone is GOAT. My test is flip QB's and ask yourself if outcome would have been different. Look at the Bills' four Super Bowls. If NFC teams had Kelly and we had Hoestedler, Rypien and AIkman would outcome have been any different? Nope, we would have been hammered four times in a row, probably by even bigger margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) For me, this conversation of GOAT starts and ends with Brady and Montana. Unitas deserves consideration, but having not seen him play its hard for me to weigh him over those two, but I fully acknowledge that based on what I know about him he deserves to be considered. However, it is a grave travesty that Steve Young is not on this list as he is better than at least half your list, and in my book arguably top 5 all time. He doesn't have the career totals as some of the others do, but thats because he sat behind the guy who is at the very least top 2 or 3 all time. In fact, the Niners moved on from one of the greatest ever in Montana a couple years early for Young, that's how good Young was. Make no mistake about it, Young was that good and the best duel threat QB of all time, hands down. People like Farve, Marino, Bradshaw, Kelly, and even Manning have no business being in this discussion. I love Kelly, and he's an all time great...but to have no titles with the talented team he had immediately eliminates him from the best ever conversation. Manning, is a front runner guy not a big game guy and has NINE "one and dones" in the playoffs while Brady has been to NINE conference championship games in 13 years...thats insane and I don't know if that will ever be done again. I would take Kurt Warner any day of the week over Manning. Favre might be the most over rated QB of all time...yes he's a legend and all time great, but he's not even in the top 10. He was a stats factory, but his reckless abandon was both a blessing and curse. Marino, another stats factory who just never got it done when it mattered most. Bradshaw was carried by the team around him and while he was good he wasnt on the level of a lot of the names on this list IMO. Top 5 for me are Brady, Montana, Unitas, Young, and the 5th I would actually bump in Aaron Rodgers already. You can say its too soon, but the guy is just flat out that good and may have a strong case for top 3 or the top of the mountain by the time his career is done. There are several QBs who can make a case to be #5, but I wouldnt take any of them over Aaron Rodgers if I was starting a team. Not Elway, Not Farve, Not Staubach, Not Peyton, Not any of them. Edited February 5, 2015 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I keep stats during games, for one thing And this uniquely qualifies you to render authoritative opinions on whether or not quarterbacks should, or should not, be credited with win/loss records how, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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