3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 This is all about Marrone trying to get the best record he can so at the end of the day he can defend himself with his record bc that's all head coaches care about This is about getting a Bills team to play every game as hard as they can. Bills have been quitters for ...ever it seems. Players give up. They are eliminated early in the season. Bills do not know how to finish strong. Goes back to the culture shift Marrone is trying to get imbedded. This is the most important game of the year. i say it all the time. Can the Bills ever beat the Patriots in Gillettes house of razors ? I would sincerely hope every single person on this team wants to beat the Kings of the AFC east. Just for the sake of that. I dont care who they start. as long as they play to win and leave it All on the field. But it should be Orton and all the first line guys. And Nathaniel needs to hang it out there too. Just chuck it vert, max protect. and by protect i mean 5 O lineman not a TE who whiffs Lets see what kind of heart this team has? That's not what you argued. "instead of playing EJ to see what riding the bench and watching has done for him." That's evaluation. Even if you are now changing your argument to him getting experience, the negatives are still there. I'm more worried about getting him irreparably broken than I am getting him experience. I can see this more than any other argument. and i have been thinking about this since Ortons shine faded. Game experience is relative. High risk low or worse reward to put EJ in now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I suspect that if one reads between the lines of Marrone's recent presser, that he has, indeed, given up on EJ. But, that really isn't my argument. Frankly, I don't see much benefit in starting EJ in a game against a superior division rival, with a team that would likely be rather deflated by the decision from their coach that the game isn't worthy of trying to win, or worthy of starting the QB that he believes gives them the best chance to win. I think the possible downsides for EJ's development (or evaluation, for that matter), could outweigh the upsides. But that really isn't my argument, either. I am much less interested in developing EJ than I am in developing this team. I'm interested in developing a winning culture. This is a "meaningless" game for the Pats, also. Is there any doubt that Brady will be starting? Is there any doubt that all of their starters will be on the field? That's what winning teams do. And, I'd be much happier, as a fan, if we finish 9-7, rather than 8-8. In fact, I'll be much happier, as a fan, at 8-8, knowing that we tried to win every game. Throwing in the towel (against the Pats, no less!!!) should never be an option. Regardless of how we finish, this is not the preseason. There are no meaningless games. Go Bills! (IMHO) As you said, the Pats* are a "superior division rival". You really think having Kyle Orton in gives the Bills a chance to win that game? If (and it's a BIG if) the Bills win that game, it will not be because of Orton. Hell, maybe Marrone put a bet down and thinks that if BellyCheat pulls his starters in the 2nd half that Orton can get it under the 10.5 spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I think Marrone has every right to play whoever he wants and to care more about this game than working on what's best for next year. Unfortunately for him Whaley and the rest of the Bills management has every right to not be happy about that. Not that one game of Seeing EJ for one game would prove much but it could show something. But wouldn't they have to change all the scheming and play calls. How about timing ? With receivers and his cadence. Hackett said they changed everything for Kyle . I dont think its so simple to decide just to plug EJ in.I agree it certainly could show something. But are we sure we as fans want to know the answer ? As you said, the Pats* are a "superior division rival". You really think having Kyle Orton in gives the Bills a chance to win that game? If (and it's a BIG if) the Bills win that game, it will not be because of Orton. Hell, maybe Marrone put a bet down and thinks that if BellyCheat pulls his starters in the 2nd half that Orton can get it under the 10.5 spread. Ooh 10.5. That hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Think about it from a business decision. EJ is a question mark. No need to cast a shadow on the next season if he comes out and sucks. It might not be his fault, but it would look bad on him. It's smart to keep him off the field. Very true. Thats the line of thinking that keeps me sane This is a fair post. But 8-8 with Orton is so much worse than 8-8 with Manuel. Way worse than 6-10 with EJ. Thats just how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) As you said, the Pats* are a "superior division rival". You really think having Kyle Orton in gives the Bills a chance to win that game? If (and it's a BIG if) the Bills win that game, it will not be because of Orton. Hell, maybe Marrone put a bet down and thinks that if BellyCheat pulls his starters in the 2nd half that Orton can get it under the 10.5 spread. Marrone seems to think so. At least, he thinks Orton gives us a better chance than EJ. And, chances are, the rest of the team thinks so, as well. That counts. And, of course, if we win on Sunday, it will be a team win. That also means (as it has every week), that if we lose, it will be a team loss. Edited December 25, 2014 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 If the Bills win with Orton, will it change anyone's mind about Orton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 If the Bills win with Orton, will it change anyone's mind about Orton? Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) Me either. And another thing. A big part of EJM's problems, seem to do with having authority, and understanding what he can ask (and demand) from his teammates. Really, that is mostly what he is learning from Orton. To throw him in for a "run for the bus" would be ridiculous. So suddenly, after getting benched, fans want him to start making demands of the team? Really?? He has to go to training camp and EARN their respect, and confidence. That doesn't happen going into a game this way. It just doesn't. It's stupid. I believe the staff still has a smidge of hope that EJM will at least equal Orton during training camp. I think they will bring in someone else, but I pretty much expect EJM to be the starter next season. It won't take much to surpass Orton. But the transition has to take place AFTER this season. (the first thing he should do is patiently tell Watkins, Wood, and all the receivers "Do NOT show me up on the field with pissy behavior. I won't do it to you, so don't do it to me. Talk to me on the sidelines, or in the locker room") Thank you very much. Edited December 25, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Me either. And another thing. A big part of EJM's problems, seem to do with having authority, and understanding what he can ask (and demand) from his teammates. Really, that is mostly what he is learning from Orton. To throw him in for a "run for the bus" would be ridiculous. So suddenly, after getting benched, fans want him to start making demands of the team? Really?? He has to go to training camp and EARN their respect, and confidence. That doesn't happen going into a game this way. It just doesn't. It's stupid. I believe the staff still has a smidge of hope that EJM will at least equal Orton during training camp. I think they will bring in someone else, but I pretty much expect EJM to be the starter next season. It won't take much to surpass Orton. But the transition has to take place AFTER this season. (the first thing he should do is patiently tell Watkins, Wood, and all the receivers "Do NOT show me up on the field with pissy behavior. I won't do it to you, so don't do it to me. Talk to me on the sidelines, or in the locker room") Thank you very much. Good post . Even if it may go against the seeming majority here.Ej should be coached up as if he were The guy. Bring some one FA more talented than Orton (?) to compete and press for reps please. For now let Orton show us if he even cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Add in his rushing TDs, junior. Add in I irrelevant. As in a qb rushing stats over 2 times as many games when talking about true passing statistics is not a point to be made. And has no validity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 We would be 5-10 at this point if we had stayed with EJ and 2-6 at the bye which means season would've been over weeks ago . There is no indication EJ or the team would've recovered from the the tailspin they were starting after Houston. To assume the way EJ was playing that he would've made it past the bye simply because some of you hate Orton is ridiculous. Pulling out fantasy standings results is ridiculous. You don't KNOW about 2-6 and you don't KNOW about 5-10. You are cherry picking. Why don't we just speculate that Jordy Nelson catches a 94 yd bomb for td. Or Alex Henery makes a field goal. Why not factor in some of the Orton sacks EJ wouldn't have. Why not factor in Spiller getting hurt. Let's factor in McKelvin, and Searcy getting hurt. Let's factor in Sammy not being hurt. Did anyone see how stupid this arguement is. If you want to speculate. Say you think. Not that you know. Because you don't. Honestly for me its getting harder and harder to be in support of EJ, just because it seems like everyone from national media to the average peanut gallery poster here on tbd, just thinks he rots. And ive been as supportive as anyone of him. Im starting to feel like a papaya here. If Orton beats out EJ to start the season, im done with him. I'm circled out for 2015 anyone Orton suits up next year. Not even playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 The way I'm wired. What an asshat. Or assvisor I guess. Sounds almost exactly like Schottenheimer..... Playing Drew brees in a meaningless game, where he broke his arm/rotator cuff. whatever it was.... -Of course, Orton is no Brees, but it illustrates the arrogance of a guy who has absolutely NO PLAN.... Just pointless ego.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Pulling out fantasy standings results is ridiculous. You don't KNOW about 2-6 and you don't KNOW about 5-10. You are cherry picking. Why don't we just speculate that Jordy Nelson catches a 94 yd bomb for td. Or Alex Henery makes a field goal. Why not factor in some of the Orton sacks EJ wouldn't have. Why not factor in Spiller getting hurt. Let's factor in McKelvin, and Searcy getting hurt. Let's factor in Sammy not being hurt. Did anyone see how stupid this arguement is. If you want to speculate. Say you think. Not that you know. Because you don't. None of that **** matters because what you fail to want to acknowledge is that EJ had lost the team so it wouldnt have gotten better at all . Thats the dumb crap you try and convince yourself of . Its not Cherry picking if you are 2-2 with @ Lions ,Patriots and @Jets coming up . Thats put us at 4 losses in a row before heading to NY in the midst of a tailspin and one big battle of who is worse EJ or Geno looming in the media . Orton despite his crapped stopped the bleeding if only temporarily but if we dont make that move no saw us coming out of that slide at all because EJ had shown us nothing to convince anyone otherwise which is why the change was made in the first place. This rewriting of history that EJ somehow wouldve stopped the 2 game win streak is desperate ,laughable ,and based on absolutely nothing but a dislike of Orton . Disliking Orton is not enough to justify claims of EJ somehow turning the ship around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 After thinking about this for a while I just wonder if it's possible that the organization as a whole feels it would be best for EJ to enter the 2015 season with a relatively clean slate?...Is it at all possible that they realize behind this O-Line, with no running game whatsoever, and going into the place that has literally been like hell on earth for this team for well over a decade, it would be WAY too much to ask of EJ at this point?...And hoping that he could pull out a miracle is just not worth the gamble of further deflating his confidence... I'm not saying that's what is going on behind the scenes because I really have no idea...Just wondering...Because I'm not buying that Marrone is really that convinced that Orton clearly gives the Bills the best chance to win...Not because I think EJ is that much better, or anything like that...Simply because between the two of them I just can't see how one truly gives us a better chance at the almost impossible than the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Yep, you are right. You are smarter than NFL coaches and GMs. My bad for thinking other wise. Which team do you work for by the way? Do you mean GMs like Doug Whaley, who has continued to voice confidence in Manuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I say start Jeff Tuel.... See what kind of trade bait he could make. EJ isn't going anywhere... Give Tuel the start and end a crappy season with some hope for the future.... If the Patsoes's bench-warmers go out and embarass our 1's, I'll be devastated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Terry Murray > Darcy Reiger Ted Nolan > Lindy Ruff Mr. Pegula, please help. signed, Anonomyous Bills fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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