John Cocktosten Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I'm usually firmly against bringing back the old guard but I like Reich. He's been around some of the greatest offensive minds of modern football. His time with Boomer, Kelly, Peyton and Rivers gives him a perspective that I want and that is needed to win in the NFL. He's been around some great winning organizations in their prime and it looks like he's on another. He's not overly dynamic but he's already a fan favorite and I believe the Bills fans need a coach that they love and relate too. Love his pedigree. Edited October 13, 2014 by John Cocktosten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I think that being green for an OC and being green for a HC are totally different issues. An OC needs to call plays and design the game plan. That's more technically-based than anything else. A HC needs to put the right coordinators in place and know how to piece a team together; it's more about principles than coordinating is IMO. Now, that doesn't mean that Reich is ready to be a HC; I'm just saying that he may be more ready in some ways to be a HC than he is to take over play-calling duties altogether. What this franchise doesn't need right now is more churning of staff. The problems that are on exhibitioin are mostly due to player deficiencies. Hackett is the convenient target a lot of people like to shoot at. In my opinion the critics are shooting at the wrong target. How does an OC call plays that work when the OL in constantly being overwhelmed? How many plays are in the playbook to cover up the limitations of the qbs directing the offense? A number of years ago the target of frustrated fans was Kevin Gilbride, the OC. They felt that he was too one dimensional favoring the passing game. After he left he went to the Giants where he directed an offense that twice won the SB. The primary differences between his success and failure is that one team had a respectable OL and a very good qb in Eli and the other team had a mediocre OL and mediocre qb play. It doesn't matter whether the fresh face Reich is the HC or the more grizzly Marrone is the HC. Innovative coaching approaches are not going to trump major talent deficiencies. Addressing the real need of talent levels is not an easy thing to do or a quick thing to do but it is the substative issue that needs to be addressed. Firing coaches is easy. But it doesn't solve the problem. It could just as likely create addition problems of instability in a franchise noted for its lack of stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tu-Toned Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 He is even green for an OC. He is very much in learning mode with McCoy. Sorry, but I would have to believe that as smart as Frank is, and having the experience, at least from the sidelines, he would make at least a way better coordinator than what we currently have with CAN'T Hackett! Prob. a better HC coach than Marrone too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 For what it's worth, not sure Reich is ready for the HC Role, but....I don't think Marrone was either. I worry that Marrone and Hackett are in over their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 What this franchise doesn't need right now is more churning of staff. The problems that are on exhibitioin are mostly due to player deficiencies. Hackett is the convenient target a lot of people like to shoot at. In my opinion the critics are shooting at the wrong target. How does an OC call plays that work when the OL in constantly being overwhelmed? How many plays are in the playbook to cover up the limitations of the qbs directing the offense? A number of years ago the target of frustrated fans was Kevin Gilbride, the OC. They felt that he was too one dimensional favoring the passing game. After he left he went to the Giants where he directed an offense that twice won the SB. The primary differences between his success and failure is that one team had a respectable OL and a very good qb in Eli and the other team had a mediocre OL and mediocre qb play. It doesn't matter whether the fresh face Reich is the HC or the more grizzly Marrone is the HC. Innovative coaching approaches are not going to trump major talent deficiencies. Addressing the real need of talent levels is not an easy thing to do or a quick thing to do but it is the substative issue that needs to be addressed. Firing coaches is easy. But it doesn't solve the problem. It could just as likely create addition problems of instability in a franchise noted for its lack of stability. While I agree about Gilbride. I also thinks its most important to have a good head coach that knows talent, and helps build the team, offense the way he wants. That 2007 power run game didn't totally come from Gilbride Player deficiencies, who's fault is that? Whaley has had two off seasons to build the O line with the help of the supposed O line guru in Marrone. The current Bills HC is an ex NFL player (O line) ex NFL line coach, ex NFL OC, and soon to be an ex NFL head coach because his forte is the O line, and its by far the worst area of the team. This team continues to lose games while Nate Hackett is learning how to do his job. What does solve the problem is hiring the right head coach. I'm so sick of these "maybe" good coaches. The Eagles hire a winner 10-3, 12-1, 12-2, 12-1 with a 46 -7 record. Marrone 4-8, 8-5, 5-7, 8-5 with a 25-25 record. See the problem? Chan gailey was fired as the Chiefs OC so it makes perfect sense for Buffalo to hire him, and then to promote him to HC. Bill Cowher- Marty S- Jim Harbough- This team deserves a winning NFL HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Sorry, but I would have to believe that as smart as Frank is, and having the experience, at least from the sidelines, he would make at least a way better coordinator than what we currently have with CAN'T Hackett! Prob. a better HC coach than Marrone too! Never said he wouldn't be a better OC than Hackett (I don't know if he would be; possibly). Not sure how much you watch the Chargers... but you see a lot of the same plays the Bills run. Same thing over and over. It just works better - execution-wise, due to Rivers and some pretty decent matchup issues they give defenses. Edited October 13, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Why do we even have this thread? and now three pages and growing. We're 3-3, and still in good shape. Let's let the season play-out before we waste bandwidth on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Why do we even have this thread? and now three pages and growing. We're 3-3, and still in good shape. Let's let the season play-out before we waste bandwidth on this topic. The Bills played a team in our division that kicked our arses. They have beaten us 22 times out of 23. Yesterday's game was a measuring stick game. We were simply outclassed. At this point the record doesn't reflect the status where the Bills are relative to good teams. You are kidding yourself if you believe that the Bills are in really good shape. They are what they are: mediocre and not moving much up the ranks. You don't learn how good you are playing against bad teams; you do learn how good you are when you play against higher echelon teams. When the Bills play against teams with good qbs (Rivers and Brady) you realize that you don't stand a chance to be relevant until the qb position is dramatically upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The Bills played a team in our division that kicked our arses. They have beaten us 22 times out of 23. Yesterday's game was a measuring stick game. We were simply outclassed. At this point the record doesn't reflect the status where the Bills are relative to good teams. You are kidding yourself if you believe that the Bills are in really good shape. They are what they are: mediocre and not moving much up the ranks. You don't learn how good you are playing against bad teams; you do learn how good you are when you play against higher echelon teams. When the Bills play against teams with good qbs (Rivers and Brady) you realize that you don't stand a chance to be relevant until the qb position is dramatically upgraded. Yep. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Cleveland aced their divisional test...and we failed ours. That's why we talk about changes at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The Bills played a team in our division that kicked our arses. They have beaten us 22 times out of 23. Yesterday's game was a measuring stick game. We were simply outclassed. At this point the record doesn't reflect the status where the Bills are relative to good teams. You are kidding yourself if you believe that the Bills are in really good shape. They are what they are: mediocre and not moving much up the ranks. You don't learn how good you are playing against bad teams; you do learn how good you are when you play against higher echelon teams. When the Bills play against teams with good qbs (Rivers and Brady) you realize that you don't stand a chance to be relevant until the qb position is dramatically upgraded. Don't kid yourself. The Pats are not an upper echelon team. The Bills simply played stupid and afraid like they always do against Brady and Belichick. It was embarrassing how easily they gave in to their fear of the Pats. If this was a true "measuring stick" Pats team the Bills would have been crushed by 40 points with that performance. At least this embarrassing loss will be a gain since the new owner now has a real reason to fire Marrone and find a real NFL head coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 GO BILLS!!! San Francisco under Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick when they already had Alex Smith who did a reasonably good job for them. Andy Reid at Philly regularly drafted a qb even when McNabb was anchored as theri starter. They got Foles in the third round. When Reid went to KC one of his first acts was to trade for Alex Smith. Smith is not an elite qb but he is a smart and effective manager type qb. The result is that the team made a major turnaround in one year with the stabilization of that position. Under Carrol the Seahawks have made numerous qb transactions searching for their franchise qb. In the year they drafted Russell Wilson in the third round they had already signed Flynn as a free agent with a very good contract. It became evident very quickly in training camp that Wilson was their best qb. Carrol had the fortitude to give the rookie the starting assignment. While all these transactions occurred Nix and this qb starved franchise were in position to snatch anyone of these qb prospects. Nix's rational for waiting before investing a high round pick on a qb was that he wanted to upgrade the team before addressing the critical position. He got it backwards. The fastest way to elevate a team is to get your qb of the future sooner rather than later. Even if you don't want to play him right away because the prospect and the team are not yet ready at least you have an opportunity to assess and develop what you have. If the prospect doesn't work out then you try again, and again. If you look at what our qb situation is with Orton and EJ you have to ask yourself what are our prospects in the not too distant future. My suggestion is that this offseason we get the best veteran qb you can find as a bridge qb and continue with your search for a long term solution. A Hoyer and Palmer type short term solution is a reasonable option while the search goes on. Maybe EJ will surprise us and come around? With his character and work ethic you know that if he doesn't succeed it won't be because he didn't try hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Don't kid yourself. The Pats are not an upper echelon team. The Bills simply played stupid and afraid like they always do against Brady and Belichick. It was embarrassing how easily they gave in to their fear of the Pats. If this was a true "measuring stick" Pats team the Bills would have been crushed by 40 points with that performance. At least this embarrassing loss will be a gain since the new owner now has a real reason to fire Marrone and find a real NFL head coaching staff. When you lose 22 times out of 23 there is a systemic reason for that: Differences in the caliber of the organizations. It has little to do with bad luck or misfortune. At the end of the year the Pats will again be Divisional winners. You and I have very different perspectives. The issue for me isn't how good the Pats are but how good the Bills are. What I took out of that game is that the Bills are not a contending team. They still have a long way to go before considering themselves a serious team. Don't bother telling what the Bills' record is so far. It is meaningless. The chasm is still very wide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) When you lose 22 times out of 23 there is a systemic reason for that: Differences in the caliber of the organizations. It has little to do with bad luck or misfortune. At the end of the year the Pats will again be Divisional winners. You and I have very different perspectives. The issue for me isn't how good the Pats are but how good the Bills are. What I took out of that game is that the Bills are not a contending team. They still have a long way to go before considering themselves a serious team. Don't bother telling what the Bills' record is so far. It is meaningless. The chasm is still very wide! My concern is that the players have a sense of this, too. Let's see how they get off the mat. But I can't believe that after their three major tests this season (SD, Houston, NE*), all of which they failed miserably, they don't have a sense of futility. It'll be interesting to see how they respond from here on in. That's gonna fall on coaching and veteran leadership. We'll see if we have either. GO BILLS!!! Edited October 13, 2014 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 When you lose 22 times out of 23 there is a systemic reason for that: Differences in the caliber of the organizations. It has little to do with bad luck or misfortune. At the end of the year the Pats will again be Divisional winners. You and I have very different perspectives. The issue for me isn't how good the Pats are but how good the Bills are. What I took out of that game is that the Bills are not a contending team. They still have a long way to go before considering themselves a serious team. Don't bother telling what the Bills' record is so far. It is meaningless. The chasm is still very wide! Other than QB, the Bills have much better talent on their roster than the Pats. The Bills had no business treating the Pats as if they were the train coming down the tracks of past meetings during their glory days. If the Bills had Chip Kelly as their HC they would own the Pats this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LaCanfora, which means its likely BS Dude is an awful reporter. I agree. It would mean more if it came from someone with true football reporting credibility. Like Tim Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Stick with Marrone. Bill Cowher had losing seasons starting out. Yeah the great Cowher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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