TH3 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yikes...I honesty don't see EJ being starter anywhere - ever again - was there anything he did well? Anything? If KO starts the Houston game it is a win - I EJ starts yesterday - it is a loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 To me it was less about the 300 yards.....and more about the complete lack of running game AND how Orton spread the ball around to different receivers that was more impressive....... This was not the jags defense out there yesterday...this was the number 1 defense IN THE LEAGUE to date.....ON THE ROAD I like EJ and I still think he shows promise. But we would not have won that game with him yesterday no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Orton was good enough to lead the team to a victory on the road against the #1 defense in the NFL Sure, as long as the opposing kicker missed 3 field goals Edited October 6, 2014 by Captain Caveman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 300 yards passing is such an outdated stat. Tom Brady had 292 yards. So his performance wasn't as good as Orton's? EJ needed 4 more yards against Carolina. That means he was that much better? Aaron Rodgers had 156 on Thursday but had 3 tds. I'll take 156 yards and 3 tds over 300 and 1 anyday of the week. Points, not yards, win games. Any other game, with an average kicker, we lose with 300 yards. As Bills fans, we deserve to win games like that, but shut up about 300 yards. It's meaningless except in fantasy football. In a vacuum you may be right. However it can be partially indicative of the ability of a QB to be able to play from behind. I don't mean just in the last drive, but playing catch-up throughout a game. Sometimes you need your QB to be able to throw for many yards to get you back into the game. One criticism and a valid one at that is that E.J hasn't been to shoulder the team to a victory through his arm when we have been playing from behind. The run was stopped cold and there was no other means to move the football yesterday. I honestly don't believe that E.J would have led us to a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Sure, as long as the opposing kicker missed 3 field goals And Carpenter missed one This was a game that was chalked up by most as a loss given the way the Lions are playing and it being on the road........ They found a way to win...that is all that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Sure, as long as the opposing kicker missed 3 field goals Yeah, and if we hadn't of missed that field goal or had Kyle Williams, Bradham or Kiko out for the game, who knows how this could have turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Orton missed many opportunities yesterday. I'm glad we won but I give far more credit to our defense and kicker (and their kicker for that matter) than Orton. Make no mistake about it, we need more production out of QB. Many missed opportunities yesterday. Especially on third and long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 +1 for many its easier to rant against someone than admit the truth, Show me where I ranted against anyone. And what truth did I not admit? Care to elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yeah, and if we hadn't of missed that field goal or had Kyle Williams, Bradham or Kiko out for the game, who knows how this could have turned out. Right, and if the Lions had a healthy Calvin Johnson maybe they score touchdowns instead of field goals. My point is, we were lucky to get the win. I'm glad we got the win, and I hope we continue to do well, but I didn't see a big difference between Orton's inaccurate passes and EJ's inaccurate passes, except that SW and FJ seemed to find a way to hang on to them yesterday and make something happen. I'm glad we won. I'm ok with the decision to put Orton in and I think he probably gives us the best shot to make the playoffs for the rest of the year. In order for that to happen, the entire offense will still need to play a lot better than we managed yesterday, even if our defense continues to dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Right, and if the Lions had a healthy Calvin Johnson maybe they score touchdowns instead of field goals. My point is, we were lucky to get the win. I'm glad we got the win, and I hope we continue to do well, but I didn't see a big difference between Orton's inaccurate passes and EJ's inaccurate passes, except that SW and FJ seemed to find a way to hang on to them yesterday and make something happen. I'm glad we won. I'm ok with the decision to put Orton in and I think he probably gives us the best shot to make the playoffs for the rest of the year. In order for that to happen, the entire offense will still need to play a lot better than we managed yesterday, even if our defense continues to dominate. Something to consider here..... While Kyle Orton has probably reached his ceiling as a QB....lets keep in mind that he has been with the team for all of a month, No training camp ONE week with the starters His play picked up as the game went on.....and this was against a very good defense. We can probably expect to see even better play as he continues to get 1st team work in camp with the starters, gets timing down with them, etc etc There IS potential upside to Orton's play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 We should be happy that the team won and that Orton had a good game, particularly given that it was his first game, in a hostile environment, against a top defense. However, I don't understand the need to take a shot at EJ. Most of us agreed that he wasn't progressing as he should have been and that the change to Orton needed to be made. Whatever you might think of EJ's skills on the football field, he tried hard for this team and handled his benching with class. I truly hope that he benefits from it and one day emerges as a good NFL QB. I don't get this need by some posters to continue kicking this kid around. I acknowledge that Manuel seems to have a good work ethic and a good attitude. He seems like a nice person--at least from what I can tell. If people are taking shots at him, I don't think it's because of any animosity toward him personally. I believe that this thread was an effort to counter the illusion that Manuel would have played just as well as Orton played. For the most part, the Bills' OL was completely dominated by Detroit. Utterly crushed. On the rare occasions when Orton had pass protection, he typically used that pass protection to attempt "big league" throws. Throws which were generally accurate. While Manuel has sometimes had good games, those games have always been when he had good pass protection. He has never shown Orton's ability for knowing when to dump it off, and when to hold onto the ball a little to let the WRs get open. Some of Manuel's supporters have claimed that Orton threw for a "hollow" 300 yards, even though that performance came against the league's #1 defense. To me, it was obvious that Orton had to scratch and claw for the vast majority of those 300 yards. It's not like his receivers handed him an easy 300 yard game due to excessive YAC. (Although I give Sammy Watkins a world of credit for that catch at the end. That was one of the best football plays at any position I've ever seen. I could also say the same thing about Carpenter's kick.) It isn't Manuel's fault that he was drafted in the first round. His college coach said the following: "I spoke to Buddy Nix. . . . I did not speak to any other teams, general managers or head coaches about EJ." Assuming his statement is accurate, it would likely indicate that 31 out of 32 teams were not very interested in Manuel. Manuel is obviously doing the best he can, given his limitations. It's not his fault that he cannot now (and probably will never) be able to throw a football with consistently good timing or accuracy; or that he can't process on-field information quickly, or make more than one read per play. The Bills' front office is supposed to figure that stuff out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 In a vacuum you may be right. However it can be partially indicative of the ability of a QB to be able to play from behind. I don't mean just in the last drive, but playing catch-up throughout a game. Sometimes you need your QB to be able to throw for many yards to get you back into the game. One criticism and a valid one at that is that E.J hasn't been to shoulder the team to a victory through his arm when we have been playing from behind. The run was stopped cold and there was no other means to move the football yesterday. I honestly don't believe that E.J would have led us to a victory. Fair points and we have no way of knowing. I do know we only scored one offensive td, something EJ has managed in every game. And we gave one back, something EJ has done once. Our defense and Carperter are the main reasons for that W and our offense needs to improve. But I'm an a hole because I feel like the guy who replaced EJ should be able to led more than one td drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yikes...I honesty don't see EJ being starter anywhere - ever again - was there anything he did well? Anything? If KO starts the Houston game it is a win - I EJ starts yesterday - it is a loss... Sure there was stuff EJ did well. His more than adequate play was a central part of his QBing the team to a 2-0 start including a tough win on the road in Chicago. He was actually able to rack up QB ratings over 90 in these two games which were indictors of him having good enough accuracy to complete both short and medium passes, him doing a good job running through his progressions, him showing go0od escapability and mobility where even if he got flushed from the pocket he kept looking downfield. His ability to find and complete passes to Watkins was quite impressive against Miami. These good aspects of his game did not nullify or minimize the facthe was not perfect in these two Ws. He sucked in terms of scoring TDs in the red zone against Miami, but actually the fact the Bills won in a laugher despite their failings in the red zone is actually a tribute to his good play in other aspects of the game. This being said, it also is the simple fact that EJ simply sucked in games 3 and 4. In fact bencing him as Merrone did was avery good move given that the good things Orton did as he threw for 300 were important for the W. However, it would be a mistake not to realize that Ortan's play though far better than EJs in games 3 and 4. was also far from perfect yesterday. EJs problem is NOT that he sucks in ALL aspects of the game, his problem is that just like in his college career he is inconsistent. For two games he can be an adequate QB such as in the first two games. At he same time he can suck as he did in games 3 and 4. EJ is a talented player, but he may not be consistent enough to be a franchise QB like we want. My question for you is that if he cannot do anything, what explains his QBing the team to its first two wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 There is only one good QB in the league who almost never throws for 300 yards, and that is Russel Wilson. He is a statistical outlier because of the non traditional Seahawks brand of football. Throwing for 300 yards one time on it's own means nothing. Never throwing for 300 yards in your career? That does mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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