DC Tom Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Have I not ONLY blamed the people who voted for ACA? Where is the intellectual honesty missing from that statement? And for what it's worth, saying that that my criticism of people who voted for ACA makes me part of a rigid, group-think mentality is pretty ironic, no? By calling those who believe ACA to be a SCFOAMF part of a rigid group-think mentality, aren't you, now part of a rigid group-think mentality al a DailyKos, Huffington Post and MSNBC? Oh, wait. You're the exception. My bad. And THAT, folks, is how you say "I'm rubber, you're glue" without looking like a complete idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Have I not ONLY blamed the people who voted for ACA? Where is the intellectual honesty missing from that statement? And for what it's worth, saying that that my criticism of people who voted for ACA makes me part of a rigid, group-think mentality is pretty ironic, no? By calling those who believe ACA to be a SCFOAMF part of a rigid group-think mentality, aren't you, now part of a rigid group-think mentality al a DailyKos, Huffington Post and MSNBC? Oh, wait. You're the exception. My bad. My comments had nothing to do with your specific point in your post and everything to do with the way you approach issues that challenge your politics. This response is perfect proof of what I said, and your pattern of "us against them" mentality. You've chosen a side, dug your trenches, and you're going to defend it till the death if needs be. Anything outside of your trench is the enemy and thus wrong. That's why you lose in the end -- intellectually / politically speaking. And THAT, folks, is how you say "I'm rubber, you're glue" without looking like a complete idiot. You're half right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's why you lose in the end -- intellectually / politically speaking. Please. Like you're a bellweather for either intellect or politics. The simple fact is that for the longest time the only people yelling politically were the freakball union leftists who demanded that the government provide the answers for everything or be held hostage. Barry screwed that pooch because he absolutely started off on the wrong foot...he was too full of himself, and reminded anyone who would listen that HE won, so get on the back of the bus and STFU. It's the law. You didn't build that. America is sorry for thinking it's exceptional. Unfortunately, Barry is all talk and literally no action, and has proven to have the leadership skills of a mop mixed with an affirmative action egocentric, thin-skinned kitty-whipped golfing persona that is one Vlad phone call away from pissing his pants and curling up in the fetal position. My only regret is how long it took the rest of the country to realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Which again begs the question, why the hysteria about Cheney now? Why not just put him on ignore? your answers are here: http://www.thenation.com/article/178320/how-dick-cheney-became-most-powerful-vice-president-history# . his actions have very long lasting effects and the ripples continue to spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) your answers are here: http://www.thenation...sident-history# . his actions have very long lasting effects and the ripples continue to spread. I have this vision of progs like you, sitting in a coffee house, praying together that W would stop taking the high road for just a split second. You have to figure publications like The Nation have W articles written and waiting in the wings like a Dick Van Dyke obituary at TMZ. You know what's really funny? I'll take the under on how long Barry will be out of office before he starts criticizing his successor while trying to explain how everyone was out to get him, and how everything would have been different if only the America that twice elected a black man president would stop judging him based on the color of his skin. Edited July 23, 2014 by LABillzFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Please. Like you're a bellweather for either intellect or politics. The simple fact is that for the longest time the only people yelling politically were the freakball union leftists who demanded that the government provide the answers for everything or be held hostage. Barry screwed that pooch because he absolutely started off on the wrong foot...he was too full of himself, and reminded anyone who would listen that HE won, so get on the back of the bus and STFU. It's the law. You didn't build that. America is sorry for thinking it's exceptional. Unfortunately, Barry is all talk and literally no action, and has proven to have the leadership skills of a mop mixed with an affirmative action egocentric, thin-skinned kitty-whipped golfing persona that is one Vlad phone call away from pissing his pants and curling up in the fetal position. My only regret is how long it took the rest of the country to realize this. See? You can't help yourself. Even when trying to defend against charges of being a partisan hack you respond with... partisan tripe. I didn't say anything about Obama or the ACA or lefties or righties. What I said was specifically aimed at you, your use of pronouns, and the fact you are firmly set in your "us against them" mentality. It's funny because that's what you slam so many for on the other side of the spectrum yet you cannot see your own reflection in the mirror. It's not that you're a bad guy or even that you're wrong about things (we agree more than you realize on certain topics), it's just that your unwillingness to truly listen to opposing viewpoints limits your ability to have an honest discussion. At least when it comes to things political. Which with you, is nearly everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 See? You can't help yourself. Even when trying to defend against charges of being a partisan hack you respond with... partisan tripe. I didn't say anything about Obama or the ACA or lefties or righties. What I said was specifically aimed at you, your use of pronouns, and the fact you are firmly set in your "us against them" mentality. It's funny because that's what you slam so many for on the other side of the spectrum yet you cannot see your own reflection in the mirror. It's not that you're a bad guy or even that you're wrong about things (we agree more than you realize on certain topics), it's just that your unwillingness to truly listen to opposing viewpoints limits your ability to have an honest discussion. At least when it comes to things political. Which with you, is nearly everything. So what you're saying is that if LA (and I for that matter seeing he and I have pretty much the same viewpoints) disagree with certain viewpoints it's because we haven't listened to them?? Pretty damn presumptuous of you don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 No, I made a conclusion based on LA's long posting history in this forum and his own choice of words. You changed his words to fit your point. This isn't Fox News, it's PPP -- facts matter. Get it together, 3rd. Horseshit. You assumed that his words were what you wanted them to convey. He hates the ACA, so do I. Is that part of some "group think"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) So what you're saying is that if LA (and I for that matter seeing he and I have pretty much the same viewpoints) disagree with certain viewpoints it's because we haven't listened to them?? Pretty damn presumptuous of you don't you think? Not what I'm saying at all. All of my comments were specific to LA and come from long experience with his posts. That's not presumption, it's a conclusion. I've had plenty of honest conversations with you, so you don't apply. Horseshit. You assumed that his words were what you wanted them to convey. He hates the ACA, so do I. Is that part of some "group think"? I assumed? I highlighted the pronouns LA actually used. You changed those pronouns. So which of us are assuming things? Go back and read the OP. Edited July 23, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I assumed? I highlighted the pronouns LA actually used. You changed those pronouns. So which of us are assuming things? Go back and read the OP. How many people in we constitutes group think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Not what I'm saying at all. All of my comments were specific to LA and come from long experience with his posts. That's not presumption, it's a conclusion. I've had plenty of honest conversations with you, so you don't apply. I assumed? I highlighted the pronouns LA actually used. You changed those pronouns. So which of us are assuming things? Go back and read the OP. Now you are trying to be too cute. You decided what those pronouns meant. Who is "we"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 See? You can't help yourself. Even when trying to defend against charges of being a partisan hack you respond with... partisan tripe. So are you suggesting that Obama began his presidency like a true leader? Which part of his leadership did you enjoy the most? The stimulus kickback to his donors? The ACA on party line? The cops acting stupidly? The son who'd be like Travon? The get on the back of the bus? The part where Vlad would see he had more flexibility in his second term? Maybe it was the part where he lied and lied and lied again and again and again about keeping your doctor or coverage? Surely you must have a personal favorite! At some point you just need to understand that I don't think Obama sucks as a president because I'm partisan. I think Obama sucks as president because he truly, completely and utterly sucks at being a president. He'd have never won if he weren't black and he'd be hauled away in handcuffs if he were a Republican. Get over yourself. Sometimes a schitty president is just a schitty president, and no matter how many times you try to explain I'm partisan, you are going to wake up the next day and Obama is still going to be a schitty president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) How many people in we constitutes group think? I don't even understand this question -- but I'll try to answer: in a general sense I apply the term to those who box themselves in intellectually or politically rather than thinking for themselves. Considering LA's clear biases, I believe his "we" referred to conservatives / republicans and their talking points which he leans on. Now you are trying to be too cute. You decided what those pronouns meant. Who is "we"? Again, I'm not being cute. I'm downright handsome. And I didn't decide what his words meant, LA used them. I merely pointed them out. Ask LA who he meant by "we" if you're unsure. I'm pretty sure I know the answer. See? You can't help yourself. Even when trying to defend against charges of being a partisan hack you respond with... partisan tripe. So are you suggesting that Obama began his presidency like a true leader? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Are you serious??? Tell me you're joking. If so, well done. Well, f'ing done. Edited July 23, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I have this vision of progs like you, sitting in a coffee house, praying together that W would stop taking the high road for just a split second. You have to figure publications like The Nation have W articles written and waiting in the wings like a Dick Van Dyke obituary at TMZ. You know what's really funny? I'll take the under on how long Barry will be out of office before he starts criticizing his successor while trying to explain how everyone was out to get him, and how everything would have been different if only the America that twice elected a black man president would stop judging him based on the color of his skin. you know what's funny? your stereotype of progressives as do- nothing coffee house, sitcom characters. i don't frequent coffeehouses. i work a lot. it's almost as if you are resentful of the privileged. like they don't deserve it. vaguely reminiscent of the class warfare you so frequently accuse me of. and whether "the nation" had this story teed up for just this moment (sure they did!) because...well, because krauthammer wrote such an inspiring, beautiful anti palestinian literary piece that they felt compelled to rebut in some way, is inconsequential. the story is true. cheney helped change the world for the worse and for generations to come. and what you said about the obama presidency is the truth as well. amazing that it occasionally springs from your keyboard. too bad it's universally buried in sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 you know what's funny? your stereotype of progressives as do- nothing coffee house, sitcom characters. i don't frequent coffeehouses. i work a lot. it's almost as if you are resentful of the privileged. like they don't deserve it. vaguely reminiscent of the class warfare you so frequently accuse me of. and whether "the nation" had this story teed up for just this moment (sure they did!) because...well, because krauthammer wrote such an inspiring, beautiful anti palestinian literary piece that they felt compelled to rebut in some way, is inconsequential. the story is true. cheney helped change the world for the worse and for generations to come. and what you said about the obama presidency is the truth as well. amazing that it occasionally springs from your keyboard. too bad it's universally buried in sarcasm. His vision is close to spot on, as that's where the nerve center of progressive thought is. You may believe that you're an independent thinker, yet you're not. As for the throwaway cheney line, you should recognize that the "world" pays a lot more attention to how USA exits than to how it enters. It was true in Vietnam, and it's more so in Iraq & Afghanistan, if you are so concerned about decisions that will haunt future generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) His vision is close to spot on, as that's where the nerve center of progressive thought is. You may believe that you're an independent thinker, yet you're not. As for the throwaway cheney line, you should recognize that the "world" pays a lot more attention to how USA exits than to how it enters. It was true in Vietnam, and it's more so in Iraq & Afghanistan, if you are so concerned about decisions that will haunt future generations. how would you know? have you infiltrated a local starbucks? i'd propose that where progressives hang out is largely dependent on demographics. most of those that i know in my age group don't hang out at coffee shops. boardrooms, professional offices, governmental offices, classrooms, courtrooms, labs and their associated breakrooms, yes. coffeeshops, not so much., perhaps you're more familiar with the juvenile form of the progressive. not much to be gleaned from them. i was right of atilla the hun in my earlier years. Edited July 23, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I don't even understand this question -- but I'll try to answer: in a general sense I apply the term to those who box themselves in intellectually or politically rather than thinking for themselves. Considering LA's clear biases, I believe his "we" referred to conservatives / republicans and their talking points which he leans on. So when those if us (see what I did there) disagree with pretty much everything this administrations does we're biased and we don't think for ourselves? We watch Fox (I don't even have cable) we read Drudge (been there maybe 5 times total and only because it's been linked here) and follow the rights talking points (I can't stand politicians left or right). And we follow what the church tells us (I haven't been to church in decades and when people ask for prayers for some tragedy I tell them I'm sending positive thoughts). Conservative ideals are oftentimes more personal than any others. These are things we believe because we've truly thought about how those ideals will make for a stronger society. So get off you high !@#$ing Hollywood horse of "I've considered both sides and have formed my own ideal" crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 So when those if us (see what I did there) disagree with pretty much everything this administrations does we're biased and we don't think for ourselves? We watch Fox (I don't even have cable) we read Drudge (been there maybe 5 times total and only because it's been linked here) and follow the rights talking points (I can't stand politicians left or right). And we follow what the church tells us (I haven't been to church in decades and when people ask for prayers for some tragedy I tell them I'm sending positive thoughts). Conservative ideals are oftentimes more personal than any others. These are things we believe because we've truly thought about how those ideals will make for a stronger society. So get off you high !@#$ing Hollywood horse of "I've considered both sides and have formed my own ideal" crap. You've somehow turned a conversation about someone else into a conversation about you. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You've somehow turned a conversation about someone else into a conversation about you. Bravo. The democrats call that "leadership." He's presidential material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The democrats call that "leadership." He's presidential material. OC for president? Hes ahead in all the latest polls according to Nate Silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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