Israel supporters=idiots

[birdog1960]

Funny though that even the lefties of Israeli aren't as morally bankrupt as he is.

what lefties? not over this war. over 80% of israeli's support the current war. those that don't and say so publicly are at risk of physical attack. one of the few outspoken (or at least publicized) "lefties" interviewed on npr this am (link to follow when available) suggested that all that need be invoked is the threat of extermination since it's a threat that the jews are very familiar with. then the ancient barbarism bandwagon is overflowing. it reminds me of the US right before the invasion of iraq.

[meazza]

what lefties? not over this war. over 80% of israeli's support the current war. those that don't and say so publicly are at risk of physical attack. one of the few outspoken (or at least publicized) "lefties" interviewed on npr this am (link to follow when available) suggested that all that need be invoked is the threat of extermination since it's a threat that the jews are very familiar with. then the ancient barbarism bandwagon is overflowing. it reminds me of the US right before the invasion of iraq.

 

So you can't be a lefty and for the war?

 

The lefties in Israel are for a two state solution and there is strong support for that. With regards to the war, yes they see the rockets targeting them, they hear the air raid sirens and run into bomb shelters and they see their own reality and support this war.

 

That's why you're an idiot. Because you'll never get it.

[birdog1960]

So you can't be a lefty and for the war?

 

The lefties in Israel are for a two state solution and there is strong support for that. With regards to the war, yes they see the rockets targeting them, they hear the air raid sirens and run into bomb shelters and they see their own reality and support this war.

 

That's why you're an idiot. Because you'll never get it.

and you and they are idiots to believe that this war will change things in the long run. how many "lefties" there don't recognize that is beyond me. unfortunately, use of force is very frequently the default response of israelis. Edited July 28, 2014 by birdog1960

[meazza]

 

 

and you and they are idiots to believe that this war will change things in the long run. how many "lefties" there don't recognize that is beyond me. unfortunately, use of force is very frequently the default response of israelis.

 

Yes i didn't realize diplomacy would destroy the tunnels into israel you !@#$ing dipshit.

[birdog1960]

Yes i didn't realize diplomacy would destroy the tunnels into israel you !@#$ing dipshit.

diplomacy might very well remove the inspiration for building tunnels into israel.

[meazza]

diplomacy might very well remove the inspiration for building tunnels into israel.

 

Or it might lead to a third intifada. Good luck in that bubble of yours.

[FireChan]

diplomacy might very well remove the inspiration for building tunnels into israel.

 

:lol:

 

You will honestly say anything behind your safety net. Israel is under constant threat. They should risk the lives of their own people to give the Palestinians yet another chance they don't deserve? Of course, it's so simple! You're almost as bad as Joe.

[GG]

diplomacy might very well remove the inspiration for building tunnels into israel.

 

Of course it will. Maybe you can explain how Hamas diverted $30mm worth of valuable concrete away from normal development to build its tunnels?

 

:lol:

 

You will honestly say anything behind your safety net. Israel is under constant threat. They should risk the lives of their own people to give the Palestinians yet another chance they don't deserve? Of course, it's so simple! You're almost as bad as Joe.

 

Not all Palestinians. Hamas. IDF needs to finish the fatal blow against them.

[OCinBuffalo]

"The Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza Strip are deprived of civil rights and human rights. They live under a different legal system from their Jewish neighbors. This is not exclusively the fault of soldiers who operate in these territories. Those troops are, therefore, not the only ones obligated to refuse. Many of us served in logistical and bureaucratic support roles; there, we found that the entire military helps implement the oppression of the Palestinians," the letter read.

http://www.haaretz.c...BD1AF001BE88E4B

Whelp?

 

Now you know what's happening here. Yeah, Chairborne Rangers talking about what's what? I'm sure the front line troops totally give a frog's fat ass what the rear echelon has to say. You know, because front line troops always like to hear what the 3-star corporal, who runs the night shift at the laundry, and is therefore a "leader", thinks. In fact, if only we'd be more attentive to the guy who failed to qualify...in everything, we'd all be better off!

 

This is moronic. The fact is that EVERYBODY serves in the reserves in Israel. Scraping together 51 people, out of the entire population, most of whom have never carried a rifle beyond basic, and have 0 first hand experience in dealing with the enemy, and their "tactics", or the realities of the war?

 

Christ, how hard would it be to find 51 Bills fans who are for firing Doug Whaley immediately? What exactly does that prove? Other than we have 51 idiots in our fan base? Not much.

 

This is flat out political propaganda, and it's not even very well done political propaganda.

 

Only an idiot would link crap like this. Oh, I forgot, it's Joe again.

and you didn't get the point of my response. there doesn't appear to be a strategy that will completely eradicate al qaeda but attempted annihilation through overwhelming force hasn't worked and isn't likely to. history has shown it to actually be counterproductive.

Actually, no. This isn't true, and what a surprise that it comes, once again, from the poster most likely to be ignorant of his history. I can remember 3 separate posts in 3 separate threads, that you were in, where DC_Tom has talked about the Mongols, and their deep, ongoing effect on the Islamic psyche, due to actual, not attempted, annihilation.

 

Oh...wait....see? This is what I get for not reading entirely through a thread first:

Actually, history has shown that overwhelming force has been extremely effective.

 

It's just that no one's tried it since the Mongols.

So, once again you've been educated, yet you refuse to learn. Also, apparently you don't know much about Charles Martel. You don't know schit about Napoleon either. Worst of all, you don't know anything about, man for man, perhaps the greatest win/loss column warriors in history, these guys: http://veneremurcernui.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/husaria.jpg

 

What did 200k Islamic Jihadis, after murdering 30k hostages, find out the hard way? It only took 20k Polish Hussars to turn their flank, and then spend the next year running them down like grass, nearly annihilating all 200k of them. Every time, the Poles were significantly outnumbered, yet annihilated their enemy.

 

The Polish Hussar didn't talk to them, he didn't negotiate, he didn't give grand speeches to other countries, he didn't talk about leadership, rather than actually leading.

 

He annihilated Muslims, 10ks at a time. They got the message, and never returned to Central Europe again. In fact, this was the beginning of their end, and eventually led to their colonization/domination by the British, French, and Russians.

 

But, please, tell me again how, historically, Muslims have ever responded to anything other than threat of certain annihilation.

did you even read the article? he's calling for an election so people can decide on their government in that region; why isn't the "only democracy" Israel doing that? he's calling netanyahu's regime "fake" ... from any moral authority standpoint it is. And if an election were held in all the territories Israel controls ... direct or indirect, hed likey lose that election too. And he's not intending to get rid of Jews

 

"Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Wednesday called for a referendum canvassing the Arabs and Jews that live in Israel in order to end the "Zionist state"

 

"There are logical and practical means to this end, which is for people who live and belong there to pick the government of their choice through a referendum. That would be the end of a usurping fake regime,"

 

Khamenei made clear for the first time that he was talking about the dismantling of the state of Israel, not the death of Jews."

The only think fake here is an religious wingnut pretending he isn't a religious wingnut.

 

These people are playing PR games, because it's finally dawned on them that the American People, regardless of who is president, aren't ever going to side with wingnuts, or wingnuttery.

 

So, they are trying to modulate their message, make it sound less wingnutted.

 

It remains to be seen of we are dumb enough to fall for modulated wingnuttery. Certainly Kerry and Obama are.

[4merper4mer]

and you and they are idiots to believe that this war will change things in the long run. how many "lefties" there don't recognize that is beyond me.

 

Maybe the rockets flying past their house scrambled their brains.

[DC Tom]

So, once again you've been educated, yet you refuse to learn. Also, apparently you don't know much about Charles Martel. You don't know schit about Napoleon either. Worst of all, you don't know anything about, man for man, perhaps the greatest win/loss column warriors in history, these guys: http://veneremurcern.../01/husaria.jpg

 

What did 200k Islamic Jihadis, after murdering 30k hostages, find out the hard way? It only took 20k Polish Hussars to turn their flank, and then spend the next year running them down like grass, nearly annihilating all 200k of them. Every time, the Poles were significantly outnumbered, yet annihilated their enemy.

 

The Polish Hussar didn't talk to them, he didn't negotiate, he didn't give grand speeches to other countries, he didn't talk about leadership, rather than actually leading.

 

He annihilated Muslims, 10ks at a time. They got the message, and never returned to Central Europe again. In fact, this was the beginning of their end, and eventually led to their colonization/domination by the British, French, and Russians.

 

But, please, tell me again how, historically, Muslims have ever responded to anything other than threat of certain annihilation.

 

So you're proving me wrong by providing examples that prove my point and agreeing with me?

[TakeYouToTasker]

what lefties? not over this war. over 80% of israeli's support the current war. those that don't and say so publicly are at risk of physical attack. one of the few outspoken (or at least publicized) "lefties" interviewed on npr this am (link to follow when available) suggested that all that need be invoked is the threat of extermination since it's a threat that the jews are very familiar with. then the ancient barbarism bandwagon is overflowing. it reminds me of the US right before the invasion of iraq.

That is, except for the ongoing daily rocket attacks, and the fact that the stated objective of those firing the rockets is the destruction of Israel.

 

So, like, an undisputable and very real present threat.

Edited July 28, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[birdog1960]

Whelp?

 

Now you know what's happening here. Yeah, Chairborne Rangers talking about what's what? I'm sure the front line troops totally give a frog's fat ass what the rear echelon has to say. You know, because front line troops always like to hear what the 3-star corporal, who runs the night shift at the laundry, and is therefore a "leader", thinks. In fact, if only we'd be more attentive to the guy who failed to qualify...in everything, we'd all be better off!

 

This is moronic. The fact is that EVERYBODY serves in the reserves in Israel. Scraping together 51 people, out of the entire population, most of whom have never carried a rifle beyond basic, and have 0 first hand experience in dealing with the enemy, and their "tactics", or the realities of the war?

 

Christ, how hard would it be to find 51 Bills fans who are for firing Doug Whaley immediately? What exactly does that prove? Other than we have 51 idiots in our fan base? Not much.

 

This is flat out political propaganda, and it's not even very well done political propaganda.

 

Only an idiot would link crap like this. Oh, I forgot, it's Joe again.

 

Actually, no. This isn't true, and what a surprise that it comes, once again, from the poster most likely to be ignorant of his history. I can remember 3 separate posts in 3 separate threads, that you were in, where DC_Tom has talked about the Mongols, and their deep, ongoing effect on the Islamic psyche, due to actual, not attempted, annihilation.

 

Oh...wait....see? This is what I get for not reading entirely through a thread first:

 

So, once again you've been educated, yet you refuse to learn. Also, apparently you don't know much about Charles Martel. You don't know schit about Napoleon either. Worst of all, you don't know anything about, man for man, perhaps the greatest win/loss column warriors in history, these guys: http://veneremurcern.../01/husaria.jpg

 

What did 200k Islamic Jihadis, after murdering 30k hostages, find out the hard way? It only took 20k Polish Hussars to turn their flank, and then spend the next year running them down like grass, nearly annihilating all 200k of them. Every time, the Poles were significantly outnumbered, yet annihilated their enemy.

 

The Polish Hussar didn't talk to them, he didn't negotiate, he didn't give grand speeches to other countries, he didn't talk about leadership, rather than actually leading.

 

He annihilated Muslims, 10ks at a time. They got the message, and never returned to Central Europe again. In fact, this was the beginning of their end, and eventually led to their colonization/domination by the British, French, and Russians.

 

But, please, tell me again how, historically, Muslims have ever responded to anything other than threat of certain annihilation.

 

The only think fake here is an religious wingnut pretending he isn't a religious wingnut.

 

These people are playing PR games, because it's finally dawned on them that the American People, regardless of who is president, aren't ever going to side with wingnuts, or wingnuttery.

 

So, they are trying to modulate their message, make it sound less wingnutted.

 

It remains to be seen of we are dumb enough to fall for modulated wingnuttery. Certainly Kerry and Obama are.

you might want to look up the definition of annhilation. if there weren't any muslims, we wouldn't have anything to discuss in this thread.

[FireChan]

Of course it will. Maybe you can explain how Hamas diverted $30mm worth of valuable concreteaway from normal development to build its tunnels?

 

 

 

Not all Palestinians. Hamas. IDF needs to finish the fatal blow against them.

 

Well of course not all Palestinians, I was speaking generally towards Hamas and their ilk.

[OCinBuffalo]

So you're proving me wrong by providing examples that prove my point and agreeing with me?

Um, not even close, there reading comprehension champ.

 

I'm proving birdog wrong, I just quoted you because, I was already telling him what you said above.

 

Moreover, I'm giving you credit for the Mongols thing, which I hadn't thought of the way you posted it....in the last, or was it the 2nd to last, thread about this.

 

you might want to look up the definition of annhilation. if there weren't any muslims, we wouldn't have anything to discuss in this thread.

I specifically used the term "threat of certain annihilation". I also used the term "near annihilation". And, where I didn't modify, I spoke in context of battles, where the portion of the Muslim army that stood and fought, rather than run for their lives, was annihilated, over and over, by Polish Hussars.

 

Once again, you've been educated. Will you learn?

 

The point is: Muslim Jihadis have no Alamo. They have a long tradition of running away, hiding, converting, rejecting their certain place in heaven....

 

....but only when faced with certain annihilation. In fact, historically, it's the only stimulus they respond to. EDIT: Think Saddam Hussein in the spider hole.

 

EDIT: Muslim Jihadis also have a long tradition of having vastly superior numbers, but getting completely smoked, beyond all rational expectation. Just like in all the wars against Israel today.

 

We can debate why, but I believe what is most likely to be true: those Muslim Jihadi armies always knew, deep down, that they weren't on the side of good. Meanwhile, the lesser forces fought brilliantly, and often times unbelievably. Why? Because they knew they were facing an evil that had to be eradicated.

 

It's no different than Chamberlian defending Little Round Top. Having right on your side, and communicating that to your troops effectively, can turn a battle you are supposed to lose, decisively in your favor.

Edited July 28, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[FireChan]

Um, not even close, there reading comprehension champ.

 

I'm proving birdog wrong, I just quoted you because, I was already telling him what you said above.

 

Moreover, I'm giving you credit for the Mongols thing, which I hadn't thought of the way you posted it....in the last, or was it the 2nd to last, thread about this.

 

 

I specifically used the term "threat of certain annihilation". I also used the term "near annihilation". And, where I didn't modify, I spoke in context of battles, where the portion of the Muslim army that stood and fought, rather than run for their lives, was annihilated, over and over, by Polish Hussars.

 

Once again, you've been educated. Will you learn?

 

The point is: Muslim Jihadis have no Alamo. They have a long tradition of running away, hiding, converting, rejecting their certain place in heaven....

 

....but only when faced with certain annihilation. In fact, historically, it's the only stimulus they respond to. EDIT: Think Saddam Hussein in the spider hole.

 

EDIT: Muslim Jihadis also have a long tradition of having vastly superior numbers, but getting completely smoked, beyond all rational expectation. Just like in all the wars against Israel today.

 

We can debate why, but I believe what is most likely to be true: those Muslim Jihadi armies always knew, deep down, that they weren't on the side of good. Meanwhile, the lesser forces fought brilliantly, and often times unbelievably. Why? Because they knew they were facing an evil that had to be eradicated.

 

It's no different than Chamberlian defending Little Round Top. Having right on your side, and communicating that to your troops effectively, can turn a battle you are supposed to lose, decisively in your favor.

 

That's a stupid belief. The real world isn't a Lord of the Rings movie.

Edited July 28, 2014 by FireChan

[OCinBuffalo]

That's a stupid belief. The real world isn't a Lord of the Rings movie.

You're an unmitigated moron.

 

I am specifically referring to what those soldiers, in those battles believed, not some dopey good vs. evil allegory.

 

Did the Egyptians, Iranians, Iraqis, Jordanians and Syrians believe that they were really doing the right thing when they invaded Israel, all those times in the 50s, 60s, and 70s? Look at the results. Time after time, they were overconfident, due to their numbers, and, they knew they had no real pretext for war. Their war aim: extermination of the Jews. Look at the results: Time after time, their initial forces were annihilated, causing the rest to flee.

 

Which, is basically the rinse and repeat history of the Arab at Holy War.

 

No honest man can claim to support Jewish extermination as a war aim. That's what makes you a moron. My assertion is based on the fact that in most wars, both sides begin with mostly honest men in their ranks. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to recognize fighting for extermination as evil, and thus lowering morale, or fighting against it as righteous, thus raising morale.

 

Morale is a very powerful thing. So powerful, that it can make the seemingly impossible happen.

 

EDIT The Jihadi Martyrdom/Death Wish is a myth, on the battlefield. They always run when they are losing. They rarely stay and become martyrs. Why? Because they have no courage. Why? Because they have no self-respect. Why? Because mass murder, rapine, and destruction represents the ulimate loss of self-control, as a human being.

 

Once again: Self-Control is the key element in self-repsect, and self-respect is the key element in courage.

 

Now, you've been educated. Will you learn?

Edited July 28, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[FireChan]

 

You're an unmitigated moron.

 

I am specifically referring to what those soldiers, in those battles believed, not some dopey good vs. evil allegory.

 

Did the Egyptians, Iranians, Iraqis, Jordanians and Syrians believe that they were really doing the right thing when they invaded Israel, all those times in the 50s, 60s, and 70s? Look at the results. Time after time, they were overconfident, due to their numbers, and, they knew they had no real pretext for war. Their war aim: extermination of the Jews. Look at the results: Time after time, their initial forces were annihilated, causing the rest to flee.

 

Which, is basically the rinse and repeat history of the Arab at Holy War.

 

No honest man can claim to support Jewish extermination as a war aim. That's what makes you a moron. My assertion is based on the fact that in most wars, both sides begin with mostly honest men in their ranks. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to recognize fighting for extermination as evil, and thus lowering morale, or fighting against it as righteous, thus raising morale.

 

Morale is a very powerful thing. So powerful, that it can make the seemingly impossible happen.

 

EDIT The Jihadi Martyrdom/Death Wish is a myth, on the battlefield. They always run when they are losing. They rarely stay and become martyrs. Why? Because they have no courage. Why? Because they have no self-respect. Why? Because mass murder, rapine, and destruction represents the ulimate loss of self-control, as a human being.

 

Once again: Self-Control is the key element in self-repsect, and self-respect is the key element in courage.

 

Now, you've been educated. Will you learn?

 

So first it's "on the side of good," now it's morale.

 

It must be easy to always be right when you get to change your assertion after being vague and stupid.

[meazza]

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/28/jeffrey-goldberg-destroying-hamass-kidnapping-tunnels-only-way-to-protect-israelis

[birdog1960]

http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/why-benjamin-netanyahu-should-be-very-very-worried-20140728. grossman's comments are spot on.