klos63 Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I was too young, but I've heard rumblings over the years about Howard Ballard. Any comparisons on the line to him and his style? What I can tell you about Ballard was that he was considered the first 300 lb lineman that wasn't fat. I think our line back then was more technique than strength. Nowadays, you need both, you must be over 300 pounds and have quick feet. Jim Ritcher was 260 lbs and very effective, now a player 60 lbs heavier has the technique he had. It's been a pretty amazing transformation in lineman over the last 20 years. Players now a so much more athletic than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/average/guard/limit-25/ Williams is the 24th highest paid OG according to this site. While not extravagant it is starter money when you figure that there are 64 starting OGs out there. Of those starting guards, I would guess that ~50% of starters are in their rookie contracts making ~ 1 million a year. So it's not unreasonable money for a quality veteran backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 2014 Base salary: $1.425 million Workout bonus: $100,000 Cap number: $2.4 million 2015 Base salary: $1.875 million Roster bonus: $500,000 (guaranteed for injury; paid on third day of league year) Workout bonus: $100,000 Cap number: $3.35 million 2016 Base salary: $2.45 million Roster bonus: $250,000 (paid on third day of league year) Workout bonus: $100,000 Cap number: $3.675 million 2017 Base salary: $2.5 million Roster bonus: $250,000 (paid on third day of league year) Workout bonus: $100,000 Cap number: $3.725 million Note: Williams' contract includes a $3.5 million signing bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Chris Williams base salary is 1.425 in 2014. Which puts him around #45 on all the guards in the NFL. ..... .....and his 2014 cap hit is $2.4M......which is 34th in the league. He was brought in to start. Let's hope the FO saw something that the talking heads in the media didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Wasn't Terrell Pryor the number 1 QB recruit a few years ago? And the kid Seastrunk was the number 3 RB in 2010 and went in the 6th round. I'm not sure I would put much faith in HS recruiting rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smapdi Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 .....and his 2014 cap hit is $2.4M......which is 34th in the league. He was brought in to start. Let's hope the FO saw something that the talking heads in the media didn't. I think he was an insurance policy taken out by Whaley. There was no way he was going to get caught with his pants down in regards to the offensive line like what happened last season. His contract is right in line with a veteran back up if that's where he ends up. Whaley was thinking ahead & the possibility they might not be able to find a quality OG in the draft. Turns out they did in Cyril Richardson who I think will have an opportunity to win that LG spot. Even if Williams isn't the starter, he is an experienced linemen that can cover 4 of the 5 line spots. That is a tremendous asset on game days when you can only dress 7 linemen. Having a guy that you can plug into any spot along the line that has starting experience is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I think he was an insurance policy taken out by Whaley. There was no way he was going to get caught with his pants down in regards to the offensive line like what happened last season. His contract is right in line with a veteran back up if that's where he ends up. Whaley was thinking ahead & the possibility they might not be able to find a quality OG in the draft. Turns out they did in Cyril Richardson who I think will have an opportunity to win that LG spot. Even if Williams isn't the starter, he is an experienced linemen that can cover 4 of the 5 line spots. That is a tremendous asset on game days when you can only dress 7 linemen. Having a guy that you can plug into any spot along the line that has starting experience is huge. Thank you for thinking critically and not regurgitating the national media BS. Chris Williams got a relatively large signing bonus bonus but he is not as vast overpaid as the national media has made the contact out to look. He is either your starting LG or the first man off the bench and is paid accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Chris Williams base salary is 1.425 in 2014. Which puts him around #45 on all the guards in the NFL. Since there is a 100% chance that the two starting guards will miss some time throughout the season that's right in line with a guy that might be your starter or your first man off the bench. The problem with Chris Williams contract is not his salary. It is his signing bonus. He got a 3.5M signing bonus which is kinda crazy but also probably means that someone else was trying to sign him too. So yes he got a crazy signing bonus but he isn't being paid like a player that can be your 6th offensive lineman, especially when the 52 man roster might a few rooks on the o-line. They basically can't cut Chris Williams so he is a lock to make the roster. I hope he can turn his career around and help push the young ones. Cherry picked argument here. You CAN'T leave out signing bonuses when you're evaluating compensation. It's part of it whether you like it or not. Chris Williams got starter level money, which is exactly what Beerball said. You only really have to start postulating on what the contract could have been to reach that conclusion. $5.5 million of his contract is guaranteed and includes his base salary for 2014. More is available this year based on performance. Sorry, but you don't sign backup players for that kind of money. As for rookie offensive lineman being starters, there will be only one in Kouandjio at RT. I hope the other guys pan out, but we don't need them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) Cherry picked argument here. You CAN'T leave out signing bonuses when you're evaluating compensation. It's part of it whether you like it or not. Chris Williams got starter level money, which is exactly what Beerball said. You only really have to start postulating on what the contract could have been to reach that conclusion. $5.5 million of his contract is guaranteed and includes his base salary for 2014. More is available this year based on performance. Sorry, but you don't sign backup players for that kind of money. As for rookie offensive lineman being starters, there will be only one in Kouandjio at RT. I hope the other guys pan out, but we don't need them to. 1.) Zero additional is available this year based on performance. 2.) You absolutely can front load a contract of a backup player. That's actually a smart way to sign a backup player when there is competition to sign the free agent. Throw signing bonus money at them to get in them in door but keep their annual salary low and not guaranteed. Edited May 25, 2014 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Back to the OPs point. Seantrel Henderson is 6'8" 345 pounds and looks kinda skinny for that size. In this article you can see him and Kouandjio in 1 and 1 drills. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Seantrel-Henderson-hails-from-heralded-high-school/0aa840bf-fcae-4b80-99aa-a6dc7f9c2245 Seantrel is talking the talk right now. If he can walk the walk, work hard and stay clean there is no way the Bills can sneak him on the practive squad. The other 31 teams are lining up to pick him up off of waivers and see if they can straighten him out. The Bills get first crack at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 1.) Zero additional is available this year based on performance. 2.) You absolutely can front load a contract of a backup player. That's actually a smart way to sign a backup player when there is competition to sign the free agent. Throw signing bonus money at them to get in them in door but keep their annual salary low and not guaranteed. There's been no indication of us bidding against anyone at any point of the Williams discussion that I've seen. He's been on the market several times very recently and not commanded near the money, or long term commitment and has done nothing since to earn that kind of bonus. We've tied ourselves to him for a couple years realistically and it would be a letdown at those dollars if he didn't start out of the gate. That said, it's not like it was dockery money either, so it's not a massive mistake even if he plays like his reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 too bad its 2014 Killjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 There's been no indication of us bidding against anyone at any point of the Williams discussion that I've seen. He's been on the market several times very recently and not commanded near the money, or long term commitment and has done nothing since to earn that kind of bonus. We've tied ourselves to him for a couple years realistically and it would be a letdown at those dollars if he didn't start out of the gate. That said, it's not like it was dockery money either, so it's not a massive mistake even if he plays like his reputation. There has been indication. That indication is the Bills gave him 3.5M signing bonus in real life. That is the indication that there was competition to sign him. There are two schools of thought to the signing bonus. 1.) OBD is smoking crack and made a huge mistake with this contract. 2.)There were multiple teams bidding on his service and the Bills needed to sweeten the deal to get him to sign. Given his past performance option 1.) seems realistic. However I choose option 2.) given the current regimes moves over the last two years. I don't think there is a lot if grey area on this. But yes to your point Chris Williams will be on the roster for the next two years but it isn't DD money that will put the Bills in a bad position in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 There has been indication. That indication is the Bills gave him 3.5M signing bonus in real life. That is the indication that there was competition to sign him. There are two schools of thought to the signing bonus. 1.) OBD is smoking crack and made a huge mistake with this contract. 2.)There were multiple teams bidding on his service and the Bills needed to sweeten the deal to get him to sign. Given his past performance option 1.) seems realistic. However I choose option 2.) given the current regimes moves over the last two years. I don't think there is a lot if grey area on this. But yes to your point Chris Williams will be on the roster for the next two years but it isn't DD money that will put the Bills in a bad position in the future. I suppose you don't like the "we think someone is bidding on him" or "he's the last possible option to plug the hole and we will overpay just to have something" options. Just because we paid him like that isn't proof anyone else was about to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Kouandjio picked as one of 5 under the radar impact picks. http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/05/usa_today_names_former_alabama.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Doug Whaley could very well turn out to be the GM who changes the really lousy draft history of the team over the last 14 years. If you look back at the history of this teams drafts you would find that the only players that ended up becoming long term impact starters were the players drafted in the first, and second rounds. Usually anyone drafted after those first two rounds ended up being a wasted draft pick. Hopefully the Bills could possibly have found three very good starters for the line...then again, they might have only found one. Time will tell. I disagree, we found some gems in the later rounds (Kyle Williams, Stevie Johnson) and had tons of busts in the first rounds (John McCargo, J.P. Losman, Aaron Maybin, the list goes on)! The Bills didn't give him a 4 year 13.5 million dollar contract to be a backup The contract seemed very rich. The FO and coaches MUST be high on him! After being disappointed by the OL play last season, I'm really hoping this draft produces 2 starters. All three of the OL draftees seem to have starter potential if they discipline themselves and learn what they need to learn. 2 of 3 would be great! 1 of 3 would be dissappointing. Big difference. Hopefully one of or two new pot smokers can stay disciplined. I do very much like the draft Whaley and Bills had! Go Bills! Edited May 27, 2014 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Hopefully the Bills could possibly have found three very good starters for the line...then again, they might have only found one. Time will tell. Rounds #2, #5 and #7.... if he hits 1 of 3 then its a success.... 2 of 3 and he can do some serious strutting.... 3 of 3 and this draft will be legendary! Edited May 27, 2014 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I suppose you don't like the "we think someone is bidding on him" or "he's the last possible option to plug the hole and we will overpay just to have something" options. Just because we paid him like that isn't proof anyone else was about to. I would put both of those under option 1.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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