TigerJ Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 She had an impressive set of pipes. Adults have to be a little careful letting kids sing like that before their voices have matured. It's possible for a youngster to do permanent damage by misusing or overusing a voice that hasn't matured not unlike little league pitchers who damage their arms. I'm saying this as a college trained vocalist and former student of vocal pedagogy (the science of teaching voice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 my point is that some said he was not good AT SINGING. I did not hear it. Why would it be that because someone has a disability, that we cannot criticize an action or an activity they are doing. I am not saying it wasn't a courageous feat for him to get out there and try, but if he wasn't good, then he wasn't good AT SINGING. disabitlities do not improve end results, beause they are disabled. want to talk aourage and emotion, fine, but flat out talent and ability, lets seperate the two! if this makes me heartless, then fine, i will join dc tom in this club, but I don't think it does! A free pass for what? Man, some of you on here are truly heartless.......can you not think of someone other than yourselves? Does the fact that maybe you can give a little kid who's probably had a pretty damn sh------- life a few minutes to do and experience something that you or I will probably never do (and in the process give him a wonderful memory he'll likely never forget) have no impact on you? I'd say that's a pretty friggin fair trade off considering he probably rarely or never gets to experience even the simple things you and I do on a daily basis. 216506[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It gives me no joy. It gave me even less to watch the kids be exploited in situations they fundamentally had no business being in. 216590[/snapback] I disagree that poorly singing kids or disabled kids have no business singing the anthem at games and to say this seems to me to place too much importance and mystical reverance on the anthem. First off, sports strike me as shared entertainment in its basic form. There can be all sorts of other relevance attached to it and its meaning or relevance may differ completely from person to person or event to event, but in essence it is shared occupation or entertainment. Along those lines, if it floats folks boats to share together by singing together, to share together by praising their country together, to share together by enjoying marvin Gaye sex-up the anthem, or to share together by joining a disabled kid in singing the anthem badly it works for me. If I don't like it, I use the time to get chips, go to the restroom, wait quietly for a second or maybe make one snide comment to my buds. I simply don't attriute a lot of importance to this ritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 and another thing....i do not get to do these kind of things everyday. heck i struggle to pay for things i need or like to do....i would love to get a chance to sing the national anthem at a big event...i would love to have ABC give me a new house because i have too many kids , i would love alot of things, but i get what i can get A free pass for what? Man, some of you on here are truly heartless.......can you not think of someone other than yourselves? Does the fact that maybe you can give a little kid who's probably had a pretty damn sh------- life a few minutes to do and experience something that you or I will probably never do (and in the process give him a wonderful memory he'll likely never forget) have no impact on you? I'd say that's a pretty friggin fair trade off considering he probably rarely or never gets to experience even the simple things you and I do on a daily basis. 216506[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 my point is that some said he was not good AT SINGING. I did not hear it. Why would it be that because someone has a disability, that we cannot criticize an action or an activity they are doing. I am not saying it wasn't a courageous feat for him to get out there and try, but if he wasn't good, then he wasn't good AT SINGING. disabitlities do not improve end results, beause they are disabled. want to talk aourage and emotion, fine, but flat out talent and ability, lets seperate the two! if this makes me heartless, then fine, i will join dc tom in this club, but I don't think it does! 216607[/snapback] My GOD man.......what is wrong with you? Do you really think that a blind 10 year old boy with cerebral palsey who could barely stand up while he was singing was ever even thinking about whether he was a good singer? How some of you can focus on the quality of the singing is the worst case of 'not being able to see the forrest for the trees' that I've ever seen in my life. It was not about what YOU, DC Tom, or anyone else thought about the quality of the singing, or the fact that the little guy was even singing to begin with. It was all 100% about the little boy having a special moment in life. Can every single child who is afflicted with some horrible disease or tragedy have the same opportunity? Of course not.......but the fact that someone with a heart allowed one - this - child to sing yesterday was a wonderful, blessed thing. I guess if you don't understand it, then you don't understand it........but it had nothing to do with the quality of the kids voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 couldn't agree more......and chances are if, God forbid, your daughter had taken ill, or was ill since birth, and had a chance to so something as thrilling as what happened yesterday, you'd want her to have that opportunity. 216280[/snapback] now that is a depressing thought....hope it never happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I disagree that poorly singing kids or disabled kids have no business singing the anthem at games and to say this seems to me to place too much importance and mystical reverance on the anthem. 216612[/snapback] Conversely, to me it places too much mystical reverence on disabled kids. Sorry, all, but I just don't buy into the whole shtick that disabled kids must be encouraged to try and do anything and be praised no matter what their performance...if only because results still matter, and the principle of "You were great because you did your best!" denies any opportunity for constructive criticism. Now clearly, "You suck" is not constructive criticism...but what the hell is wrong with encouragement like "You're not ready yet, but keep practicing." The total whitewashing and thoughtless acceptance of a blind kid's performance because he's blind ultimately does the kid a great disservice in virtually denying him any incentive or opportunity to improve. And that's above and beyond the point that being "special" doesn't make one able to sing...if it does, I'm just enough of a cynical piece of sh-- to take the argument to the absurd conclusion that Doug Flutie Jr. and Hunter Kelly should do a duet at the Superbowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 and another thing....i do not get to do these kind of things everyday. heck i struggle to pay for things i need or like to do....i would love to get a chance to sing the national anthem at a big event...i would love to have ABC give me a new house because i have too many kids , i would love alot of things, but i get what i can get 216623[/snapback] Do you get to see every day? How many years have you been able to do so? If more than one, then you have a gift you probably take for granted that this kid would probably kill for. How about walk? Ever play a sport when you were a child? Need I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 ok first off, i am entering into this fray only after the initial argument that the kid was not a very good singer. I said i did not see him or hear him. I am only critical of those that seem to feel that we should not speak of his lack of vocal talents only because he has a disability. If i had seen him, i probably would have been a big blob of goo because i AM a sucker for those less fortunate doing something that is a complete distraction for them from thier otherwise "troubled" lives. I am only saying that if someone is gonna go out and perform, they should be subject to criticism or observations. i do not hear anyone speaking ill of this boy, just questioning why he of all the people out there was singing in such a huge areana of public viewing. My GOD man.......what is wrong with you? Do you really think that a blind 10 year old boy with cerebral palsey who could barely stand up while he was singing was ever even thinking about whether he was a good singer? How some of you can focus on the quality of the singing is the worst case of 'not being able to see the forrest for the trees' that I've ever seen in my life. It was not about what YOU, DC Tom, or anyone else thought about the quality of the singing, or the fact that the little guy was even singing to begin with. It was all 100% about the little boy having a special moment in life. Can every single child who is afflicted with some horrible disease or tragedy have the same opportunity? Of course not.......but the fact that someone with a heart allowed one - this - child to sing yesterday was a wonderful, blessed thing. I guess if you don't understand it, then you don't understand it........but it had nothing to do with the quality of the kids voice. 216624[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#89 Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 And that's above and beyond the point that being "special" doesn't make one able to sing...if it does, I'm just enough of a cynical piece of sh-- to take the argument to the absurd conclusion that Doug Flutie Jr. and Hunter Kelly should do a duet at the Superbowl... 216634[/snapback] Tom dear, I hope that was purely for shock value. Take a nap, time out, gather your thoughts...I know you are not this demented heartless man you are trying to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickJames Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It's not about you. 216602[/snapback] Amen. It seems to me the only "challenged" individuals are the ones who could not see the beauty in anthems yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It was not about what YOU, DC Tom, or anyone else thought about the quality of the singing, or the fact that the little guy was even singing to begin with. That we can agree on. It was all 100% about the little boy having a special moment in life. That's where we disagree...I saw the whole thing as exploitive, pandering, a disgusting use of a disabled child, as I would see (and have, in the past) any situation where someone is asked to do something they're fundamentally not capable of doing, simply for the sake of displaying their differently-abled selves. Like I said earlier, we'll have to agree to disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Conversely, to me it places too much mystical reverence on disabled kids. Sorry, all, but I just don't buy into the whole shtick that disabled kids must be encouraged to try and do anything and be praised no matter what their performance...if only because results still matter, and the principle of "You were great because you did your best!" denies any opportunity for constructive criticism. Now clearly, "You suck" is not constructive criticism...but what the hell is wrong with encouragement like "You're not ready yet, but keep practicing." The total whitewashing and thoughtless acceptance of a blind kid's performance because he's blind ultimately does the kid a great disservice in virtually denying him any incentive or opportunity to improve. And that's above and beyond the point that being "special" doesn't make one able to sing...if it does, I'm just enough of a cynical piece of sh-- to take the argument to the absurd conclusion that Doug Flutie Jr. and Hunter Kelly should do a duet at the Superbowl... 216634[/snapback] OMG, I'm losing my mind here........seriously lol Tom, do you know what cerebral palsy is? I'm sure you must......I'm sure you also know the repercussions of the other medical issues the child has that Stojan posted about earlier in this thread......do you REALLY think that his parents or caregivers are worried about any sort of "constructive criticism" of his singing ability?? He is not COMPETING with anyone. Maybe the kid simply wanted to be able to sing the anthem of our country, and someone went out of their way to make sure he had a hell of an opportunity to do it.......what is wrong with that? People who have disabilities to this degree - ESPECIALLY children - should be entitled to have a little special treatment now and again......can't you and Poojer excercise a little empathy here? Put yourself in his position.......imagine never being able to see or being unable to walk without assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It really wasn't very good. She was waaay off key on the high note. What's funny is that she was palateable, and you guys rave about her. But some kid who is obviously disabled in some way (turns out he's blind) sings off key and you guys tear him apart. (Did anyone happen to notive two of the servicemen while he sang were crying? Tears flowing and everything). 215590[/snapback] Do you think their eyes were watering because it was 15 degrees with 20 mph winds? I mean the kid is brave and sang pretty well but it wasn't a rendition ala Whitney Houston at the wide right SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 That we can agree on.That's where we disagree...I saw the whole thing as exploitive, pandering, a disgusting use of a disabled child, as I would see (and have, in the past) any situation where someone is asked to do something they're fundamentally not capable of doing, simply for the sake of displaying their differently-abled selves. Like I said earlier, we'll have to agree to disagree... 216646[/snapback] What exactly is to gain by anyone other than the child? If he's smart enough to learn the words, he's smart enough to know what he does and doesn't want to do. I sincerely doubt anyone forced it upon him. I bet you any money that little tiger of a child was the one who wanted to do it - all on his own. Just so happens, he had 70,000 Philadelphians helping him with the rest of the anthem when he began to stumble. That's a pretty special thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickJames Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 That we can agree on.That's where we disagree...I saw the whole thing as exploitive, pandering, a disgusting use of a disabled child, as I would see (and have, in the past) any situation where someone is asked to do something they're fundamentally not capable of doing, simply for the sake of displaying their differently-abled selves. Like I said earlier, we'll have to agree to disagree... 216646[/snapback] I couldn't agree more. Handcapped and disabled children should be locked up in their homes. Or maybe we could do an "Escape from New York" type thing. Round em all up and put them on the island together. Out of sight, out of mind right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Amen. It seems to me the only "challenged" individuals are the ones who could not see the beauty in anthems yesterday. 216645[/snapback] Wow, now there is a point to ponder. Kudos to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 And that's above and beyond the point that being "special" doesn't make one able to sing...if it does, I'm just enough of a cynical piece of sh-- to take the argument to the absurd conclusion that Doug Flutie Jr. and Hunter Kelly should do a duet at the Superbowl... 216634[/snapback] Tom dear, I hope that was purely for shock value. Take a nap, time out, gather your thoughts...I know you are not this demented heartless man you are trying to be. 216642[/snapback] Only partly. I'm obviously not suggesting it, as I'm adamantly opposed to yesterday's anthem. But the prevalent argument is that the anthem was somehow a wonderful, brilliant performance because it was sung by a blind 10-year old with CP. I'm merely carrying it to it's logical extreme by suggesting that, if that were the case, a duet by an autistic kid and one with Krabbe's disease would be even more wonderful and brilliant... ...someone, please tell me why the two situations are different. Why is it not just okay but somehow laudable to suggest that a blind 10 year old with CP should sing the anthem, but God forbid one should suggest Doug Jr. or Hunter Kelly should...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I am only saying that if someone is gonna go out and perform, they should be subject to criticism or observations. i do not hear anyone speaking ill of this boy, just questioning why he of all the people out there was singing in such a huge areana of public viewing. 216640[/snapback] Well, i guess if you want to criticize proud, blind, 10 year old disabled children with cerebral palsy, there is little I can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichFan Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Only heard the girl singing the anthem - for those criticizing her, she got more applause during the anthem than most people get after the anthem. I trust she will remember that moment the rest of her life, and many in attendance at the game will as well. You critical stevestojans will forget the whole thing by next week. I personally found it more enjoyable watching someone like her do a great rendition than I do watching stars butcher it by adding their own signature twang. With regards to the boy (who I missed), I'm so glad the NFL is using events like this to make a difference in people's lives. Let the "stars" have the half-time shows, but leave our national anthem to the talented plain-folk. Francis Scott Key would probably prefer it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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