thebandit27 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 So you feel that unless they draft both an offensive tackle AND an offensive guard within our first 3 picks everyone should be fired? I agree we need to draft a tackle by Round 3 at the latest. But two of our first three picks on lineman? No way! Like him or not - we signed Chris Williams to a decent sized contract to be our starting LG. Urbik's fine at RG (especially if we draft a stud RT) and Marrone's high on the youngsters they started to develop last year (Asper, McClain, and Unga). If a gem of a Guard falls in the later rounds - by all means. But we have too many other more important spots to fill to be insinuating everyone should be fired if we don't spend two of our first three picks on the O-Line. Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Yes, highly touted, as in he was in most people's top 3 of QBs. Casserly, he of the vaunted David Carr and Heath Shuler picks, doesn't hold much weight with me. And most everyone thought DCarr mach one was a franchise pick at the time. I've been wrong on QBs but I would not take this draft's leftovers at the position. That's how you end up with JP Losman. If the top guys aren't there you look for the one that others are overlooking irrationally. For me that is Aaron Murray and I don't mind waiting for him to heal. Heath Shuler was a legendary bust, but you can make a strong argument that David Carr was a good pick who was ruined playing behind one of, if not the, worst offensive lines in the modern era. That guy barely had time to take the snap before getting clobbered. Trent Edwards & JP Losman probably felt sorry for him. That kind of introduction to the NFL can throw off a QB's internal clock and leave him a shell of what he could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Can you please explain this? When did we see EJ choke, much less consistently? I seem to recall the opposite. Leading us back to the lead vs the hated Patsies on opening day. Leading a comeback in week 2 vs Carolina. Making good throw putting us in position to comeback for win vs Falcons only to have the football fumbled TWICE. The only thing I can think of is the fumble vs the Ravens. But luckily in that case, SJ was Johnny on the Spot and fell on it preserving the win. Bills recent history. NOT EJ. In particular, I was riffing on the board's oft posted comment that Fitzgibbons would play well for 3 quarters and throw the game-killing interception in crunch time. I believe that was posted here 15297 times. (OK, I made up that stat. Tip o' the hat to someone I know that loves to do that. ) Actually EJ was consistent last year, he played well at home except for one game, he played poorly on the road except one game. QB rating at home - 105.5, 89.3, 48.9, 121.9, 86.7 on the road - 71.8, 74.8, 63.5, 31.2, 105.0. It's very common for rookie QBs to play well at home and struggle on the road. Thanks for proving my point. Ratings ranging from 48 to 121 are not "consistent". http://dictionary.re...owse/consistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Tom Brady, mister consistency, ranged from 50 to 150 last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Tom Brady, mister consistency, ranged from 50 to 150 last year... Nice find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Bills recent history. NOT EJ. In particular, I was riffing on the board's oft posted comment that Fitzgibbons would play well for 3 quarters and throw the game-killing interception in crunch time. I believe that was posted here 15297 times. (OK, I made up that stat. Tip o' the hat to someone I know that loves to do that. ) Thanks for proving my point. Ratings ranging from 48 to 121 are not "consistent". http://dictionary.re...owse/consistent You can spin the numbers anyway you want, but the stats showed just what I said. C Kaepernick - 20 - 134(holy cow better bench this clown), D Brees 67 -146, T Brady 52 - 151, A Dalton 52 - 136, J Flacco 46 & 49 - 112(makes 20 mil a year), Super Bowl winning QB R Wilson 49(twice) - 151, A Smith 56 - 158, N Foles 46 - 158, A Rodgers 64 - 146, C Newton 47 - 143 M Ryan 47 - 148. That's ten playoff QBs, plus Ryan who missed this year but is usually in, all ratings are in the same range or worse. Just proves they had one really good game and one pretty bad game, but has very little to do with consistency and more importantly success for both the QB and the team. Edited April 19, 2014 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 So you feel that unless they draft both an offensive tackle AND an offensive guard within our first 3 picks everyone should be fired? I agree we need to draft a tackle by Round 3 at the latest. But two of our first three picks on lineman? No way! Like him or not - we signed Chris Williams to a decent sized contract to be our starting LG. Urbik's fine at RG (especially if we draft a stud RT) and Marrone's high on the youngsters they started to develop last year (Asper, McClain, and Unga). If a gem of a Guard falls in the later rounds - by all means. But we have too many other more important spots to fill to be insinuating everyone should be fired if we don't spend two of our first three picks on the O-Line. Its not up to me. This same thinking that the O line doesn't need upgrading is what has been plaguing this team for 15 years. Anyway, I highly doubt this team drafts an OT with the #9 pick as they have had a tendency to avoid drafting O linemen in the first round, Wood being the exception since 2002. Even C Eric Wood wasn't the first, first rounder that year as they selected Maybin with the #11 pick. I simply feel that the Bills will fail to provide adequate protection to any Bills QB this season, and the result will be another lost year. You can then figure out what new owners will want to do with this staff, and FO. NFN, but seriously throwing up names of scrubs claimed off the waiver wire like they will ever accomplish anything in the league...to me is like saying the name Colin Brown in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Its not up to me. This same thinking that the O line doesn't need upgrading is what has been plaguing this team for 15 years. Honestly, how can you expect to have any credibility when you make a statement like this? You're claiming that a team that spent $75M in one offseason on Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker never recognized a need to upgrade the OL? Come on man, seriously? Pick bones with the personnel choices and the way they spent their OL resources, but to say they haven't tried to upgrade the OL is patently incorrect. Then, of course, there's the fact that the specific upgrades I just spoke of yielded a team-record for fewest sacks-allowed, which completely obliterates your argument, but that's a whole different issue altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 You can spin the numbers anyway you want, but the stats showed just what I said. C Kaepernick - 20 - 134(holy cow better bench this clown), D Brees 67 -146, T Brady 52 - 151, A Dalton 52 - 136, J Flacco 46 & 49 - 112(makes 20 mil a year), Super Bowl winning QB R Wilson 49(twice) - 151, A Smith 56 - 158, N Foles 46 - 158, A Rodgers 64 - 146, C Newton 47 - 143 M Ryan 47 - 148. That's ten playoff QBs, plus Ryan who missed this year but is usually in, all ratings are in the same range or worse. Just proves they had one really good game and one pretty bad game, but has very little to do with consistency and more importantly success for both the QB and the team. Wait. The QB rating thing is not my argument; it's your point. I just agreed with the poster that made the point Manuel needs to be more consistent -- though I was amending that to say he needs to play more consistently at the high end of play. While you've taken some time to pick highs and lows, you miss my point entirely and this does nothing to change my mind. Your QB ratings list for Manuel shows 1 game in the 30s, 1 in the 40s, 1 in the 60s, 2 in the 70s, 2 in the 80s, 2 in the 100s, 1 in the 120s. If we take Nick Foles, he had 1 game in the 30s, 1 in the 40s, 1 in the 70s, and 11 games over 100. It's pretty clear that both QBs had bad games. It's also clear that Foles had 5 games where his QB was better than Manuel on his best day and that Foles was fairly consistently pitching over 100 in QB rating while Manuel's numbers are fewer and obviously lower. So, what is your point? You said that Manuel is "consistent" in your opinion -- consistently good at home and bad away. (And, I agree that he played better at home, but that doesn't mean I have to bend a knee to your definition of consistent.) Are you just telling us that every NFL QB has a best and worst outing over the course of the season? Or do you just take exception to the idea that Manuel needs to improve AND show that improved play consistently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 No you used the range in the rating " Thanks for proving my point. Ratings ranging from 48 to 121 are not "consistent"., I was just showing other good QBs have the same. As far as EJ needing to be more consistent on the high end, how many rookies, going into his 2nd year, at any position, ever, don't need to be more consistent. Maybe a handful ? I was assuming that was a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 No you used the range in the rating " Thanks for proving my point. Ratings ranging from 48 to 121 are not "consistent"., I was just showing other good QBs have the same. As far as EJ needing to be more consistent on the high end, how many rookies, going into his 2nd year, at any position, ever, don't need to be more consistent. Maybe a handful ? I was assuming that was a given. I didn't think I needed to rewrite the list of numbers. I quoted it. You wrote it. It's plenty obvious it is not a clustered distribution. I was merely trying to frame the distribution and assert that it was a scattershot of performance -- from very bad to pretty good. But, no, it was never my intention to try and say QBs don't have good games and bad games. That is absurd, obviously incorrect, and doesn't really need to be argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I didn't think I needed to rewrite the list of numbers. I quoted it. You wrote it. It's plenty obvious it is not a clustered distribution. I was merely trying to frame the distribution and assert that it was a scattershot of performance -- from very bad to pretty good. But, no, it was never my intention to try and say QBs don't have good games and bad games. That is absurd, obviously incorrect, and doesn't really need to be argued. All's good. Must have mistaken what you were implying. I'm an EJ fan, but of course he need to improve if the Bills are going to make the playoffs. Which every Bills fan, those who think EJ has what it takes, those who don't, and those undecided, desperately wants, at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Tom Brady, mister consistency, ranged from 50 to 150 last year... Hey now, stop facting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Interesting that Bucky Brooks in his 2013 do-over on NFL.com has the Bills still going EJ in round 1. He has Kiko going #2 overall to the Jags. #LegendofKiko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Tom Brady, mister consistency, ranged from 50 to 150 last year... Hey now, stop facting. "You're really going to compare Brady to EJ" said everyone that hates facting. New favorite word BTW Run. Edited April 25, 2014 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Meh, it was just in response to the range point. (ie using 'range' for an argument, doesn't make much sense) As far as consistency. EJ clearly wasn't last year as a whole. But during home games, he was pretty consistently average to good. Road games, not so much. Which I think was the original point. I'm ok with a rookie struggling on the road his first year. Especially a rookie with limited pre season, and only 10 total games played, with a sketchy OLine, and questionable coaches heh. We'll see how it plays out this year. I don't understand this concept that EJ is clearly crap because of last year. To me he played about to expectations for a rookie *shrugs*. Years 2 and 3 generally give us the clear picture. Edited April 25, 2014 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Meh, it was just in response to the range point. (ie using 'range' for an argument, doesn't make much sense) As far as consistency. EJ clearly wasn't last year as a whole. But during home games, he was pretty consistently average to good. Road games, not so much. Which I think was the original point. I'm ok with a rookie struggling on the road his first year. Especially a rookie with limited pre season, and only 10 total games played, with a sketchy OLine, and questionable coaches heh. We'll see how it plays out this year. I don't understand this concept that EJ is clearly crap because of last year. To me he played about to expectations for a rookie *shrugs*. Years 2 and 3 generally give us the clear picture. The real questionis "did he struggle alone, or did the team struggle as a whole?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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