Donald Duck Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) If this was still true, NF wouldn't be the ghost town it now is. Site seeing does nothing for that city's fate---in fact the site see-ers do their seeing (and spending) from the Canadian side. How can anyone even argue this? And if it was such an attractive development site, any smart developer would have invested something in it long ago. It's radioactive. This whole issue makes little sense. If your goal is to fill the stadium (with Americans, Canadians, martians...) create a nicer---and slightly smaller venue than the Ralph and it will sell out regularly. The current stadium is 91% full on average. Downsize it and..there you go 100% full. All this "regionalization" has done nothing to bring in Canadian corporate support (big ad sales and, more importantly, luxury suite sales) so far. Building a stadium in a permanently blighted zone such as NF will not bring in the "whales" (they certainly won't "walk" there--a hilarious assumption). Look, jw took a single throw away comment by Duffy and stretched it into an AP article. But, come on..... Radioactive, lol, OK, I fail to see where your argument indicates a stadium in NF would have problems from a ticket/Luxury suite standpoint, or filling the stadium with other venues of entertainment. I love Buffalo, its the City I was born in, but let me ask you something, what makes Buffalo a more attractive location then NF? Edited April 13, 2014 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Radioactive, lol, OK, I fail to see where your argument indicates a stadium in NF would have problems from a ticket/Luxury suite standpoint, or filling the stadium with other venues of entertainment. I love Buffalo, its the City I was born in, but let me ask you something, what makes Buffalo a more attractive location then NF? Why would more tickets of any kind (especially premium/luxury seats) sell better in NF than Buffalo? Makes little sense to assume Canadians are holding back the big bucks until the team moves a little closer to the border. And name all of the other "venues of entertainment" you see filling that stadium (spare us the "Final Fours" and "Bowl Games"). Also, really? You were born in Buffalo and can't figure why it's better than NF? Take away the actual Niagara Falls and there is nothing left to compel anyone to visit this sad place. And once you have seen the Falls, how many times do people go back to see them again? There is absolutely nothing to do there except roll up the windows and keep driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Why would more tickets of any kind (especially premium/luxury seats) sell better in NF than Buffalo? Makes little sense to assume Canadians are holding back the big bucks until the team moves a little closer to the border. And name all of the other "venues of entertainment" you see filling that stadium (spare us the "Final Fours" and "Bowl Games"). Also, really? You were born in Buffalo and can't figure why it's better than NF? Take away the actual Niagara Falls and there is nothing left to compel anyone to visit this sad place. And once you have seen the Falls, how many times do people go back to see them again? There is absolutely nothing to do there except roll up the windows and keep driving. You make my point for me, add other forms of entertainment and you might get better results with folks returning eh? People who live in the region would appreciate NF more If it wasn't a dump... Edited April 13, 2014 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Why would more tickets of any kind (especially premium/luxury seats) sell better in NF than Buffalo? Makes little sense to assume Canadians are holding back the big bucks until the team moves a little closer to the border. And name all of the other "venues of entertainment" you see filling that stadium (spare us the "Final Fours" and "Bowl Games"). Also, really? You were born in Buffalo and can't figure why it's better than NF? Take away the actual Niagara Falls and there is nothing left to compel anyone to visit this sad place. And once you have seen the Falls, how many times do people go back to see them again? There is absolutely nothing to do there except roll up the windows and keep driving. The U.S. side of the falls is a dump and the Canadian side is a freaking carnival. I'm with you 100% here. NF really has nothing to offer. The better play if you want to put the stadium in the city is lakefront downtown Buffalo. It's a balance of moving closer to the city, yet not so far as to lose all of the fan base that's well South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Retractable dome roofs cost a boatload of $ and I wonder about the harsh winter weather and heavy snow....I disagree that people don't like outside football. I used to go to games in the Kingdome, I've been to the Georgia Dome, Reliant Stadium and SuperDomer - it just doesn't feel feel when you're used to watching football outside. If the Bills stay I would like to see the stadium in the city. Here in Seattle we have the Clink next to the Safe and if they ever get an NBA team that stadium will be close by too. There are lots of hotels downtown plus trains and buses. It's really convenient to be downtown. I realize most people who live in suburbia think "the city" is a foreign country but it's actually pretty cool to have a reason to go down there. If the Bills go, I suspect the Ralph will become the world's biggest bonfire. I still believe someone has something up their sleeve. But if the Bills move, by then Pete Carroll will have been fired by the Seahawks so I can become a Seahawks fan. If they don't build a dome they might as well take the hundreds of millions of dollars, put it on a boat, light it on fire and send it over the falls. You think any new owner is going to want the Bills to play outdoors? Think of all the events a dome would allow you to host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 If this was still true, NF wouldn't be the ghost town it now is. Site seeing does nothing for that city's fate---in fact the site see-ers do their seeing (and spending) from the Canadian side. How can anyone even argue this? And if it was such an attractive development site, any smart developer would have invested something in it long ago. It's radioactive. This whole issue makes little sense. If your goal is to fill the stadium (with Americans, Canadians, martians...) create a nicer---and slightly smaller venue than the Ralph and it will sell out regularly. The current stadium is 91% full on average. Downsize it and..there you go 100% full. All this "regionalization" has done nothing to bring in Canadian corporate support (big ad sales and, more importantly, luxury suite sales) so far. Building a stadium in a permanently blighted zone such as NF will not bring in the "whales" (they certainly won't "walk" there--a hilarious assumption). Look, jw took a single throw away comment by Duffy and stretched it into an AP article. But, come on..... it was not a single throwaway comment. Duffy was asked this because the AP had heard that NF was on the table and clearly in the mix of discussion, which went beyond the working group's initial charter limiting the search to Erie County. at no point did the AP report that NF or Niagara County would BE the site. the report clearly noted that NF can't be ruled out. Duffy didn't come out and say this on his own. he was asked by the AP specifically. to suggest the AP based this story on one single comment is dreadfully erroneous. and to suggest a site or sites in Niagara Falls aren't in play is naive at best. there are numerous things in play here and from various perspectives, as noted in the piece, Niagara Falls makes sense on many levels. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Niagara Falls makes sense on many levels. Except for the problem that upgrading a highway system capable of moving 70,000 people into downtown Niagara Falls on Sunday's would likely cost more than the stadium itself. IMO, this is the deal breaker for a NF stadium--the city's infrastructure just isn't remotely capable of handling a game day traffic scenario, particularly one where the majority of the patrons would be coming from outside Niagara County. The Rainbow Bridge is ill equipped to handle the Canadian traffic either, given the roadway design on either entry point. The highway construction outlay would dwarf the stadium investment and likely take longer than seven years to execute, given the logistics and red tape involved in such a massive public works project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Except for the problem that upgrading a highway system capable of moving 70,000 people into downtown Niagara Falls on Sunday's would likely cost more than the stadium itself. IMO, this is the deal breaker for a NF stadium--the city's infrastructure just isn't remotely capable of handling a game day traffic scenario, particularly one where the majority of the patrons would be coming from outside Niagara County. The Rainbow Bridge is ill equipped to handle the Canadian traffic either, given the roadway design on either entry point. The highway construction outlay would dwarf the stadium investment and likely take longer than seven years to execute, given the logistics and red tape involved in such a massive public works project. i'm not saying NF will be the site, but don't you think upgrading the city's infrastructure is going to have to take place one way or another if the city is ever going to re-emerge as a true tourist destination? it's not as if upgrades aren't part of Albany's long-term focus in regards to Niagara Falls. tying those upgrades to a potential NFL stadium would address several needs, which is why the search will include Niagara Falls and surrounding county. ... and let's put it this way, Howard Milstein didn't buy all that land to simply sit on it. jw Edited April 13, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 and let's put it this way, Howard Milstein didn't buy all that land to simply sit on it. Yes he did. But with the statewide casino referendum compact precluding a non-indian venue in NF, Milstein is SOL. Unfortunately, so is the city, since that land will continue to sit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 i'm not saying NF will be the site, but don't you think upgrading the city's infrastructure is going to have to take place one way or another if the city is ever going to re-emerge as a true tourist destination? it's not as if upgrades aren't part of Albany's long-term focus in regards to Niagara Falls. tying those upgrades to a potential NFL stadium would address several needs, which is why the search will include Niagara Falls and surrounding county. ... and let's put it this way, Howard Milstein didn't buy all that land to simply sit on it. jw This gives me the image of a sleek limo pulling to the side of the road somewhere in NF, a tuxedo-dressed man getting out, walking a couple hundred yards, and then just sitting down in the middle of a field. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If they don't build a dome they might as well take the hundreds of millions of dollars, put it on a boat, light it on fire and send it over the falls. You think any new owner is going to want the Bills to play outdoors? Think of all the events a dome would allow you to host. Like? (Bowl games and Final 4 are not coming to NF...) it was not a single throwaway comment. Duffy was asked this because the AP had heard that NF was on the table and clearly in the mix of discussion, which went beyond the working group's initial charter limiting the search to Erie County. at no point did the AP report that NF or Niagara County would BE the site. the report clearly noted that NF can't be ruled out. Duffy didn't come out and say this on his own. he was asked by the AP specifically. to suggest the AP based this story on one single comment is dreadfully erroneous. and to suggest a site or sites in Niagara Falls aren't in play is naive at best. there are numerous things in play here and from various perspectives, as noted in the piece, Niagara Falls makes sense on many levels. jw So a reporter asked "hey what about Niagara Falls?" Duffy served up... "We're looking at Niagara County," Lt. Gov. Robert Duffy told the AP this week. "We're open to looking at a number of venues." NF has been "in play" in the minds of many for well before Duffy answered 'yeah, sure, NF too". Whatever the plans the state has to pretty up NF (obviously it is way down the "to do" list, given its chronic state of neglect by the state), do you think they would pour a few hundred million into the infrastructure for a stadium that, most research shows, does not yield any significant economic benefit to a blighted area? And do you think Milstein is a potential owner for the Bills? HAs the AP asked him why he bought all that land? If not an owner, do you think he will build a stadium on spec and rent it out for the tiny amount the Bills are paying Erie now? Why not ask him these questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 HAs the AP asked him why he bought all that land? Milstein bought the land for one reason...the expectation that non-indian casino gambling would one day be legal in New York State. While it eventually happened, what he didn't count on was the Seneca's ability to carve out an exclusivity clause that makes his bet a loser. Snake eyes, Howie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Milstein bought the land for one reason...the expectation that non-indian casino gambling would one day be legal in New York State. While it eventually happened, what he didn't count on was the Seneca's ability to carve out an exclusivity clause that makes his bet a loser. Snake eyes, Howie... Apparently the press thinks otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Apparently the press thinks otherwise. LOL! That phrase should be carved in stone on the steps of the Newseum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 LOL! That phrase should be carved in stone on the steps of the Newseum... Maybe Milstein's number is unlisted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Like? (Bowl games and Final 4 are not coming to NF...) So a reporter asked "hey what about Niagara Falls?" Duffy served up... "We're looking at Niagara County," Lt. Gov. Robert Duffy told the AP this week. "We're open to looking at a number of venues." NF has been "in play" in the minds of many for well before Duffy answered 'yeah, sure, NF too". Whatever the plans the state has to pretty up NF (obviously it is way down the "to do" list, given its chronic state of neglect by the state), do you think they would pour a few hundred million into the infrastructure for a stadium that, most research shows, does not yield any significant economic benefit to a blighted area? And do you think Milstein is a potential owner for the Bills? HAs the AP asked him why he bought all that land? If not an owner, do you think he will build a stadium on spec and rent it out for the tiny amount the Bills are paying Erie now? Why not ask him these questions? your response to this is completely laughable. fully and completely. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 your response to this is completely laughable. fully and completely. jw Thanks. What did Milstein say when you asked him why he bought all that land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Thanks. What did Milstein say when you asked him why he bought all that land? if it is your wish to assume the role of crayonz on this board, please proceed. jw Add: what's also odd, WEO, i don't ever recall being under any obligation to inform you who the AP has spoken to or what those discussions pertained. Edited April 13, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 if it is your wish to assume the role of crayonz on this board, please proceed. jw Add: what's also odd, WEO, i don't ever recall being under any obligation to inform you who the AP has spoken to or what those discussions pertained. It's not an obligation. But an odd comment for the press to make. You wrote an article highlighting NF as a possible location for a new stadium. You invoke Milstein in your post. Then you say it's not my business to know what you may have asked the guy you brought up in your post. I would think everyone who read your article would love to hear what his thoughts and plans are. My questioning the feasibility or wisdom of supporting NF as the next home of the Bills is hardly crayons-worthy. But even in hyperbole, I see and accept the compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) It's not an obligation. But an odd comment for the press to make. You wrote an article highlighting NF as a possible location for a new stadium. You invoke Milstein in your post. Then you say it's not my business to know what you may have asked the guy you brought up in your post. I would think everyone who read your article would love to hear what his thoughts and plans are. My questioning the feasibility or wisdom of supporting NF as the next home of the Bills is hardly crayons-worthy. But even in hyperbole, I see and accept the compliment. again, you seem to think it's an obligation by suggesting i share here what i know and/or have been told. you make assumptions in regards to who the AP has or may not have spoken to. you make take a wild flying guess as to what prompted the story, and now you suggest that i lay my cards on the table because you somehow feel obligated to know. your guesses and assumptions have been laughable, and you seem to revel in the process of digging yourself deeper. i'd suggest you stop, but i doubt you'd listen. jw and i certainly hope you're not angling to suggest that i reveal my sources. i block you in a moment's notice if that is the case. Edited April 13, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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