Jonathan Martin

[Maybe Someday]

Anytime you can bring in talent at a position of need for a reasonable price, you do that and let the guy try to earn his spot. He is still young and was obviously talented enough to be a high 2^nd round pick. There are plenty of former higher draft picks in this league that didn’t pan out with their 1^st team for one reason or another but then went onto long successful NFL careers with other teams. Plus, many of the reports seem to indicate that the Dolphins locker room was extreme compared to most others. He’s going to get a 2^nd chance to resume his career, why not be with us? He may relish the idea of being able to play the Phins twice a year.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't ever remember Rogers being considered a bust, so I'll have to take your word on that (it's worth noting that I couldn't find any references to him being bust in a quick search).

 

The others (Baldwin, Ginn, Dorsey) had very little impact with the '9ers, although re-reading your original statement, it looks like you were simply saying that they're good at picking up former top picks, not that they necessarily get anything out of them.

 

As for the bold statement, what I've seen of Martin tells me that he falls into the "just not good enough" category.

 

 

 

Two sides to this: yes, he quit on his team, and that's unacceptable under most circumstances.

 

However, he obviously did so as his own version of taking a stand. Taking a stand doesn't mean he has to be violent or retaliate, it means he has to do something to change the situation. He may have gone to the team, and the team told him to toughen up or get over it; that's yet to be hashed out by the investigators.

 

Point is, I agree that he shouldn't have quit on his team, but that's with the caveat that what we've heard/seen/read is an accurate account of things. What if it isn't?

 

For me, it isn't about how he decided to deal with the situation, it's that he obviously has some emotional issues that either (a) caused this situation, (b) exacerbated the situation, or © resulted from the situation. I'm not looking for players with that kind of baggage, let alone ones that don't look the part with their on-field play.

 

Fair enough. I just think his emotional issues never showed up until he encountered a psycho named Richie. Personally, I have a hard time faulting a guy like Martin (probably a bit too smart and sensitive for most macho football players) for not handling RI well. RI is a complete idiot who pretty much the whole league hates.

[Cheddar's Dad]

For the most part, I agree with you. At the same time, it is very dangerous to paint everyone with the same brush. Football is a team sport filled with many different personalities and body types. Martin was hardly the first person to have problems with RI. Antonio Smith swung his helmet at him. Is that really a better way to deal with it? If you told me RI murder a person, I won't doubt it. He is flat out crazy. Martin was a smart guy who isn't a typical meathead. He probably was afraid of RI. It's easy to say he should just stand up for himself. But you are underestimating the power of the bully. It's like telling someone who has depression to just get over it.

 

My main point is the guy has talent and it didn't work out there. but it worked out for his whole prior to Miami. RI might be the biggest scumbag in the NFL. So will I give Martin a pass for that? Yup and I'd love the Bills to bring him in.

 

"Paint everyone with the same brush"; that's a nice cleche. How does it apply to this? Yes, there are varieties of personalities in the NFL but all of those varieties need to have several quailties in common, toughness being at the top of that list.

 

Martin wasn't the first to have problems with Ingognito. He was, however, the first to quit. Is it possible that Ingognito treated Martin as he did because he wanted to get him to throw down. He wanted to get him to stand up because that was the only way Martin might make it in the league? The two did seem to have some sort of social relationship judging from their frequest e-mails etc. suggesting to me that Martin did understand that Ingognito was trying to help him.

 

There are and were less talented players in the league that had toughness and dogged determination and were successful, undrafted free agent Wes Welker for example. There were players in the league that had abundant talent but didn't have those other qualities, QB Jeff George for example . They didn't succeed or played as backups throughout their careers. It strikes me that Martin has neither the required talent or toughness or determination to overcome.

 

One other thing, Martin never played guard in college. He was always a LT and played along side very tough LG David DeCastro. Maybe DeCastro protected him to a degree from that bully opponent? If you're not tough enough to play Tackle in the pros which might require more in the line of finesse and technique than toughness, you'll never succeed as an interior linemen where smash mouth ability is generally the order of the day

[stuckinny]

i highly doubt he will play another snap in the NFL...he is just too fragile! So my option is no, don't want him!

[boyst]

I hope he gets a shot to try again in the NFL but he doesn't deserve it.

[TXBILLSFAN]

No way on RI, he's not worth the trouble. Bills can get upgrade at LG in FA or draft, they don't need the RI hassle in waiting. As for Martin, I'm on the fence, I don't think any of us know the full story. Martin said he was okay with the traditional hazing but said it became racial and personal and about his family. To me, that crosses a line, even in football. If Martin's story checks out, I think he's worth a look. He would be an upgrade at RT over Pears and if Hairston never plays, he could start. Worst case, he backs up Hairston or a drafted RT.

[bills1960]

All distractions aside, the guy still sucks

[Cheddar's Dad]

No way on RI, he's not worth the trouble. Bills can get upgrade at LG in FA or draft, they don't need the RI hassle in waiting. As for Martin, I'm on the fence, I don't think any of us know the full story. Martin said he was okay with the traditional hazing but said it became racial and personal and about his family. To me, that crosses a line, even in football. If Martin's story checks out, I think he's worth a look. He would be an upgrade at RT over Pears and if Hairston never plays, he could start. Worst case, he backs up Hairston or a drafted RT.

 

I agree with you that we, on the outside, don't know the full story. I do know this; he quit during the middle of a season, ending his career, bringing a team mate down, and causing his team to scramble for replacements. Hard to Justrify that other than to point to some intollerable circunstance. He failed as a LT and was failing as a RT. I can't help but wonder if, to what degree, knowing he was failing, he used the situation with Ingognito to justify screwing his team as he did.

 

An improvement at Rt over Pears? I don't think so. Pears is in decline but he was and still is a tough dude.

[C.Biscuit97]

I agree with you that we, on the outside, don't know the full story. I do know this; he quit during the middle of a season, ending his career, bringing a team mate down, and causing his team to scramble for replacements. Hard to Justrify that other than to point to some intollerable circunstance. He failed as a LT and was failing as a RT. I can't help but wonder if, to what degree, knowing he was failing, he used the situation with Ingognito to justify screwing his team as he did.

 

An improvement at Rt over Pears? I don't think so. Pears is in decline but he was and still is a tough dude.

 

Incognito was a piece of trash who brought his own career down. Kicked out of multiple colleges, got rid of by multiple teams, rountinely voted dirtiest player in the league. I'm glad that piece of trash is out of the league. But I guess it's all Martin's fault.

[TXBILLSFAN]

I agree with you that we, on the outside, don't know the full story. I do know this; he quit during the middle of a season, ending his career, bringing a team mate down, and causing his team to scramble for replacements. Hard to Justrify that other than to point to some intollerable circunstance. He failed as a LT and was failing as a RT. I can't help but wonder if, to what degree, knowing he was failing, he used the situation with Ingognito to justify screwing his team as he did.

 

An improvement at Rt over Pears? I don't think so. Pears is in decline but he was and still is a tough dude.

He wasn't better than the Pears of 2011, but is better than the Pears of 2012 and 2013. I don't like that he quit, but, like I said, I'd want to know more about the situation and what really happened. What ever happened to the NFL investigation and those findings, were they ever released ?

[peterpan]

Confidence plays as much or more a role in success as talent does.

[C.Biscuit97]

Confidence plays as much or more a role in success as talent does.

 

Great point. I think a guy like Eric Wood would build up Martin's confidence. It's a long shot but I can see Martin becoming a player in this league if he gets in the right situation.

[1B4IDie]

Incognito was a piece of trash who brought his own career down. Kicked out of multiple colleges, got rid of by multiple teams, rountinely voted dirtiest player in the league. I'm glad that piece of trash is out of the league. But I guess it's all Martin's fault.

Biscuit,

 

Jonathan Martin is not good at playing football in the NFL.

 

You can get less dramatic, media circus options for Right Tackle.

 

It makes zero sense to bring him in, even if he offered to play for Free.

 

If he showed promise on the field of play it would be one thing. His track record in the NFL is being a turnstile. We don't need turnstiles on the offensive line. Let him prove his 2nd round draft status somewhere else that has the luxury to give psychotherapy to a head case. The Bills do not have this luxury right now.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[Kevin]

I'd rather have Richie Incognito.

[C.Biscuit97]

Biscuit,

 

Jonathan Martin is not good at playing football in the NFL.

 

You can get less dramatic, media circus options for Right Tackle.

 

It makes zero sense to bring him in, even if he offered to play for Free.

 

If he showed promise on the field of play it would be one thing. His track record in the NFL is being a turnstile. We don't need turnstiles on the offensive line. Let him prove his 2nd round draft status somewhere else that has the luxury to give psychotherapy to a head case. The Bills do not have this luxury right now.

 

He wasn't that bad as a rookie RT. He sucked at LT and obviously had a lot going on mentally. I'm not asking to trade picks or a big money deal. 1 year, see what you got in a good environment with real leaders.

[Rob's House]

Define "good player" because I'm pretty sure he was bordering on terrible

 

I've heard of him.

[NoSaint]

If the Colts with Andrew Luck or San Fran with his old college coach don't pick him up, then maybe there is more to this on Martin's part. That, to me would be a big indictment on Martin.

 

the colts with luck and several members of the stanford offensive staff/players, have publicly supported him - although thats not the same as signing him

[FireChan]

Bring back Richie. History of success as a guard and never had drama playing with Wood and those guys. It's obviously the better choice than a horrible young guy with drama issues.

[TXBILLSFAN]

He wasn't that bad as a rookie RT. He sucked at LT and obviously had a lot going on mentally. I'm not asking to trade picks or a big money deal. 1 year, see what you got in a good environment with real leaders.

+1 He's worth a shot in a low risk scenario. Confidence and environment matter, he can play. Might not be all-pro, but I can see him as a solid RT. David Shaw was supportive of Martin, I'd talk with him and some of the players that played with Martin at Stanford (Luck, Sherman etc.). My bet is that you'll see him in Indy with Luck.

[1B4IDie]

He wasn't that bad as a rookie RT. He sucked at LT and obviously had a lot going on mentally. I'm not asking to trade picks or a big money deal. 1 year, see what you got in a good environment with real leaders.

Again. Why Bother? There Dozens of other options. Beginning with Picks 2-6 of the 2014 draft.

 

There is a low likelihood of success and high likelihood of media circus.

 

He is not some type of no brainer once in a lifetime talent. He is basically just a guy at this point in time.