Alphadawg7 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I have to disagree. We didn't win anything...Dynasty's win championships. What would you call us, Dynasty of 2nd best? FYI: I don't think Levy should be in the HOF either and neither does Peter King. Marv Levy's decision to end the SB was a very poor decision and one of the biggest reasons we lost the game. On SECOND down with 8 seconds left and a stopped clock, Levy elects to kick a FG that is 47 yards where Norwood was 1 for 5 over 40 yards that season, was considered the peak of his range at best, and Levy admitted that less than 50% of such attempts are successful in general. You have one of the most potent offenses in the game with a HOF QB, HOF RB (who is a great receiver), HOF WR, and talent left and right on this team and you don't try one more sideline play to get the ball a little closer when your Kicker is horrible from that distance? Horrible call and I think one of the least talked about issues about that game yet probably most significant IMO. Especially since there were no turnovers in that game from either team. Levy leading us to 4 straight AFC Championships...big deal. He got out coached and destroyed in the 3 SB's and made a couple of poor decisions, including the end game decision, in the Giants game. I will always respect Marv and all, but I think he gets way too much credit and not enough criticism for our 4 SB trips. Those teams had waaaaay too much talent on them to go 0-4, and all these HOF inductions prove that. We had a ton of Pro Bowlers those years too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 With Andre getting in the HOF, this means that a Hall of Fame coach lined up 5 Hall of Fame players for our first three Super Bowls and 4 for our 4th. The Giants had one HOFer, along with their HOF coach, and a will be HOF coach as DC. The Skins had 3 HOFers and a HOF coach. And, the Cowboys had 3 HOFers. I didn't believe it at the time when people said how much respect these team would get even after losing all four, and I always said I'd take one win and only one appearance over four straight appearances. But, I'm not so sure now. I think I'd rather have this be my team than the Bucs with their one win in one appearance. The respect this team has received, after being a punchline back then, has been unbelievable. I know the 60s Packers and the 70s Steelers have got to have more HOFers, but that might be it. I don't if any other team has or will have lined up with 5 HOFers and a HOF coach. I took a look at what is considered the gold standard of NFL franchises for the 80's and 90's, the San Francisco Forty-Niners. Only 5 members of those great teams that were with the Niners for the majority of their NFL careers are in the HOF: Walsh, Montana, Steve Young, Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott. In addition, Fred Dean played for them for 5 yrs in the early 80's, so if we're going to claim James Lofton, Dean should count. They also had 3 HOF'ers who only played for their 1994 Championship team: Deion Sanders and DE Richard Dent played for them for only that 1994 season while Rickey Jackson was there for the '94 & '95 seasons. The Bills' list from their 4 Super Bowl teams may be more impressive considering they didn't maintain that success as long as the Niners, who made the playoffs 18 straight seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Fontes Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) Bennett should be considered and not because he was a Bill. He was elite for 4-6 years and was consistently good for 15 years. Over 70 sacks, 30 forced fumbles. Extremely versatile. All around great LB. List of HOF LBS: Chuck Bednarik (C-LB) 1949-1962 Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974 Derrick Brooks 1995-2008 Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976 Dick Butkus 1965-1973 Harry Carson 1976-1988 George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955 Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999 Bill George 1952-1966 Jack Ham 1971-1982 Chris Hanburger 1965-1978 Ted Hendricks 1969-1983 Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969 Rickey Jackson LB (also DE) 1981-1995 Jack Lambert 1974-1984 Willie Lanier 1967-1977 Ray Nitschke 1958-1972 Les Richter 1954-1962 Dave Robinson 1963-1974 Joe Schmidt 1953-1965 Mike Singletary 1981-1992 Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993 Derrick Thomas 1989-1999 Andre Tippett 1982-1993 Dave Wilcox 1964-1974- See more at: http://www.profootba...h.7MKBqsfS.dpuf Edited February 4, 2014 by Wayne Fontes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I took a look at what is considered the gold standard of NFL franchises for the 80's and 90's, the San Francisco Forty-Niners. Only 5 members of those great teams that were with the Niners for the majority of their NFL careers are in the HOF: Walsh, Montana, Steve Young, Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott. In addition, Fred Dean played for them for 5 yrs in the early 80's, so if we're going to claim James Lofton, Dean should count. They also had 3 HOF'ers who only played for their 1994 Championship team: Deion Sanders and DE Richard Dent played for them for only that 1994 season while Rickey Jackson was there for the '94 & '95 seasons. The Bills' list from their 4 Super Bowl teams may be more impressive considering they didn't maintain that success as long as the Niners, who made the playoffs 18 straight seasons. The one thing is that all those guys you name didn't all line up together. Walsh, Montana and Lott were gone before '94. I have to disagree. We didn't win anything...Dynasty's win championships. What would you call us, Dynasty of 2nd best? FYI: I don't think Levy should be in the HOF either and neither does Peter King. Marv Levy's decision to end the SB was a very poor decision and one of the biggest reasons we lost the game. On SECOND down with 8 seconds left and a stopped clock, Levy elects to kick a FG that is 47 yards where Norwood was 1 for 5 over 40 yards that season, was considered the peak of his range at best, and Levy admitted that less than 50% of such attempts are successful in general. You have one of the most potent offenses in the game with a HOF QB, HOF RB (who is a great receiver), HOF WR, and talent left and right on this team and you don't try one more sideline play to get the ball a little closer when your Kicker is horrible from that distance? Horrible call and I think one of the least talked about issues about that game yet probably most significant IMO. Especially since there were no turnovers in that game from either team. Levy leading us to 4 straight AFC Championships...big deal. He got out coached and destroyed in the 3 SB's and made a couple of poor decisions, including the end game decision, in the Giants game. I will always respect Marv and all, but I think he gets way too much credit and not enough criticism for our 4 SB trips. Those teams had waaaaay too much talent on them to go 0-4, and all these HOF inductions prove that. We had a ton of Pro Bowlers those years too. How many time outs did we have with 8 seconds left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The one thing is that all those guys you name didn't all line up together. Walsh, Montana and Lott were gone before '94. How many time outs did we have with 8 seconds left? Zero. But 8 seconds is plenty of time to run another play with the players we had on this team. If nothing quick is there to the sideline you throw it away. Teams do this ALL the time. But instead we kick a FG thats at the max range of our kicker at best, who was only 1 of 5 from over 40 (and this was 47). 47 yards was a FG you don't kick with that FG kicker unless you have to. Well we didn't have to. We could have run one more play to try to get some quick yards to put it closer. And his kick was a few yards too far back from being good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Zero. But 8 seconds is plenty of time to run another play with the players we had on this team. If nothing quick is there to the sideline you throw it away. Teams do this ALL the time. But instead we kick a FG thats at the max range of our kicker at best, who was only 1 of 5 from over 40 (and this was 47). 47 yards was a FG you don't kick with that FG kicker unless you have to. Well we didn't have to. We could have run one more play to try to get some quick yards to put it closer. And his kick was a few yards too far back from being good. Man, if anything got botched on that play and we never got to kick, he would have been called out 1000x more than you are calling him out...................I hated Kelly for awhile for saying "We did our job - we got to the 30" No, that wasn't your job, Jimbo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Man, if anything got botched on that play and we never got to kick, he would have been called out 1000x more than you are calling him out...................I hated Kelly for awhile for saying "We did our job - we got to the 30" No, that wasn't your job, Jimbo! And I hated Keith McKellar for a while after that game, for making a meaningless catch, inside the hash marks, that wasted about 15 seconds of precious clock...but it subsided. I know a lot of folks have their criticisms of Jim Kelly, especially for XXV, but in his mind, he was "just doing what got us here". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) We were late to the game in developing our defense. 3 guys who came to the Bills after our SB run could have really helped us; Ted Washington, Chris Speilman & Bryce Paup. Having a true run stuffer in Washington could have meant Jeff Wright was a 3rd down rusher or backup. Paup, Talley, Speilman & Bennett would have been a great tandem in the 3-4. Our secondary was never great but with that kind of quality front 7 it would have meant lots of 3rd & longs. Edited February 5, 2014 by BigCountryBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I saw every game. All the arguments for and against have been run into the ground on this board. No need to regurgitate them. I think short, white, family guys (and the women that love them) between the ages of 40 - 65, who resided in the Western New York, and Southern Ontario area during Tasker's career, strongly identify with Tasker (I fit that demographic by the way), and it gives them an unrealistic perspective on his importance in NFL history. I think the more of those elements you remove, the less anyone cares about Steve Tasker, and his noteworthy, but not HoF-worthy career. To me Tasker was a vital piece to the Super Bowl run. They double teamed him after his first pro bowl on special teams and he STILL made plays. If you just look at his stats you would say to yourself how is this guy even considered. But if you look how he changed the game I think he has to be considered. Some people don't think special teams is 1/3 of the game. Mary Levy would disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 To me Tasker was a vital piece to the Super Bowl run. They double teamed him after his first pro bowl on special teams and he STILL made plays. If you just look at his stats you would say to yourself how is this guy even considered. But if you look how he changed the game I think he has to be considered. Some people don't think special teams is 1/3 of the game. Mary Levy would disagree with that. It's not, it's about 20 percent of the plays (extra points, punts and kickoffs that are fair caught, or not returned included). C'mon dude. Marv Levy likes snappy phrases that are easy for fans and defensive linemen to remember. And he and I disagree about a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Zero. But 8 seconds is plenty of time to run another play with the players we had on this team. If nothing quick is there to the sideline you throw it away. Teams do this ALL the time. But instead we kick a FG thats at the max range of our kicker at best, who was only 1 of 5 from over 40 (and this was 47). 47 yards was a FG you don't kick with that FG kicker unless you have to. Well we didn't have to. We could have run one more play to try to get some quick yards to put it closer. And his kick was a few yards too far back from being good. Norwood put it just wide, not short. If he was short I could see your point. But it was well within his range that night and was simply mis-aimed. If something weird happens trying to run another play and your receiver gets tackled in bounds it would be much worse than what Levy decided to do. They didn't need to squeeze a few yards out of one possible last play, Norwood simply blew it. Plus, according to the statistics here, http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/norwosco01.htm the 1990 season saw Norwood hit 6-10 FG 40-49 yds, so he was 6-9 coming in to the superbowl. Over his career he seems to have hit from this range about 2/3 of the time so I'm not sure where you are getting the 1 of 5? Edited February 5, 2014 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Is it possible to disagree with both of you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 With Andre getting in the HOF, this means that a Hall of Fame coach lined up 5 Hall of Fame players for our first three Super Bowls and 4 for our 4th. The Giants had one HOFer, along with their HOF coach, and a will be HOF coach as DC. The Giants had two. Harry Carson is now in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 The Giants had two. Harry Carson is now in. He retired in 1988. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Zero. But 8 seconds is plenty of time to run another play with the players we had on this team. If nothing quick is there to the sideline you throw it away. Teams do this ALL the time. But instead we kick a FG thats at the max range of our kicker at best, who was only 1 of 5 from over 40 (and this was 47). 47 yards was a FG you don't kick with that FG kicker unless you have to. Well we didn't have to. We could have run one more play to try to get some quick yards to put it closer. And his kick was a few yards too far back from being good. I just watched the "highlight' film of that game the other day. Another questionable play call in that last drive was a run with Thurman with about 30 secs left. It gained like 7 yards but ate up a lot more clock than a sideline pass would've. There didn't seem to be enough urgency in the last minute as they seemed satisfied to get to the 30. I agree that even though the kick was long enough, chances were better if it was a shorter attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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