Mr. WEO Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 the interesting dynamic that ive found this week is that if you outline the defense hes run in the past you are told not to speculate or criticize (even when simply outlining the scheme) but if you say hes going to use something totally unheard of in his past and itll be a huge success then you are simply being realistic. i know the quote above was going to ruffle a few feathers, but i thought it would give some perspective on what these press conferences amount to. everyone wants to sound like they will be imposing their will on the opponent. in schwartzs case he has done that well at times, and not so well other times. hopefully he does it more often this go around. The Lollipop Guild was pretty bummed to find out it was just a guy behind a curtain. Welcome to Oz, NoSaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Remember that Schwartz had Haynesworth at his absolute beastly peak and then had Suh. I don't think the Bills have 1 interior player that is, or can be, dominant on that level. When he says "attacking defense", I assume he'll send 4 if it's enough…then 5 and so on…..until he pressure the QB. Whether the Bills blitz depends on whether Kyle is healthy, Dareus and Mario feel like playing and who is the RDE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Just about every defense coordinator that gets hired says the defense will be more aggressive and/or attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Remember that Schwartz had Haynesworth at his absolute beastly peak and then had Suh. I don't think the Bills have 1 interior player that is, or can be, dominant on that level. When he says "attacking defense", I assume he'll send 4 if it's enough…then 5 and so on…..until he pressure the QB. Whether the Bills blitz depends on whether Kyle is healthy, Dareus and Mario feel like playing and who is the RDE. when he had haynesworth at his peak for 2 years, it was a top ten defense. every year before that was bottom half of the league. i think marcell has the capability to produce like that, and hope that some new motivators (both coaching and quickly approaching financial) will help see him (and our defense) produce big things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 First, I like the hire. Second, Schwartz has good track record as DC and defensive coach. Third, words mean nothing. Every DC says they will attack, simplify and put players in position to make plays. No DC says, we'll be passive, complicated and put players out of position. To start to get an idea of what we'll get, look at the assistants Schwartz hires and the player moves (FA, draft etc.) that take place over next couple of months. I suspect, we'll see a defense that sits in between Wanny's and Pettine's. A little more structure and discipline than Pettine, which should mean fewer big plays (i.e. fewer long runs, but fewer sacks/INT's). Not necessarily a bad thing, but, probably not as fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 when he had haynesworth at his peak for 2 years, it was a top ten defense. every year before that was bottom half of the league. i think marcell has the capability to produce like that, and hope that some new motivators (both coaching and quickly approaching financial) will help see him (and our defense) produce big things. I hope so. For the reasons you stated, he should have his biggest year in 14. Throw LBs behind him who can read and react to this active front, it might get interesting. If Dareus is disappointing in any way, it will cost him $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 the interesting dynamic that ive found this week is that if you outline the defense hes run in the past you are told not to speculate or criticize (even when simply outlining the scheme) but if you say hes going to use something totally unheard of in his past and itll be a huge success then you are simply being realistic. i know the quote above was going to ruffle a few feathers, but i thought it would give some perspective on what these press conferences amount to. everyone wants to sound like they will be imposing their will on the opponent. in schwartzs case he has done that well at times, and not so well other times. hopefully he does it more often this go around. That's fine. I don't recall fawning over the hire or ensuring myself and others that every time Schwartz breaks wind it'll be innovative. But I understand your point. That said, there was also: Selective memory for every time New England torched Pettine's Jets D's about a year ago just like there was much unrest regarding the run 2013 defense...until Pettine was leaving. Conflicting points of view doesn't necessarily mean one single person touts each side of the hypocrisy himself. But some do. As Bills fans, we're all inherently, stupidly optimistic. What has the team done over the last decade and a half to give us hope, keep us interested or engage us enough to even seek online communities to share thoughts and feelings? Something, apparently. At the same time though, there are no shortage of posters and Bills fans in general who stick to "Bills suck" refrain, and they'll go to great lengths to justify that point of view. Personally, I'm puzzled by these people because I can't wrap my head around the calories they burn for something which apparently brings them no joy. So when I see people preemptively criticizing the FO, the QB, the DC, Russ, Doug, Doug, Ralph, the city of Buffalo for something that exists only in the future/their head, I can't help but detect a pinch of insanity. The world has enough problems. Why invent some more--about a !@#$ing football team no less--and then go the extra mile by sitting behind a keyboard and projecting your hand-wringing madness to anyone who'll listen? So yeah, I'm critical of people who already of their qualms with Schwartz's scheme, which will ultimately be designed for players who aren't even on our team yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So yeah, I'm critical of people who already of their qualms with Schwartz's scheme, which will ultimately be designed for players who aren't even on our team yet. God I hope that's not true and one of the criteria for hiring Schwartz in the first place was his ability to largely use the players already in place. It would sadden me if, after all the time and expense of assembling some talent on the defensive side of the ball, they have to retool yet again for Schwartz's scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 God I hope that's not true and one of the criteria for hiring Schwartz in the first place was his ability to largely use the players already in place. It would sadden me if, after all the time and expense of assembling some talent on the defensive side of the ball, they have to retool yet again for Schwartz's scheme. I didn't mean to suggest that at all. But better your bottom we'll be adding a CB, LB, S and DL by the time FA and draft are over. and at least one of those will be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 That's fine. I don't recall fawning over the hire or ensuring myself and others that every time Schwartz breaks wind it'll be innovative. But I understand your point. That said, there was also: Selective memory for every time New England torched Pettine's Jets D's about a year ago just like there was much unrest regarding the run 2013 defense...until Pettine was leaving. Conflicting points of view doesn't necessarily mean one single person touts each side of the hypocrisy himself. But some do. As Bills fans, we're all inherently, stupidly optimistic. What has the team done over the last decade and a half to give us hope, keep us interested or engage us enough to even seek online communities to share thoughts and feelings? Something, apparently. At the same time though, there are no shortage of posters and Bills fans in general who stick to "Bills suck" refrain, and they'll go to great lengths to justify that point of view. Personally, I'm puzzled by these people because I can't wrap my head around the calories they burn for something which apparently brings them no joy. So when I see people preemptively criticizing the FO, the QB, the DC, Russ, Doug, Doug, Ralph, the city of Buffalo for something that exists only in the future/their head, I can't help but detect a pinch of insanity. The world has enough problems. Why invent some more--about a !@#$ing football team no less--and then go the extra mile by sitting behind a keyboard and projecting your hand-wringing madness to anyone who'll listen? So yeah, I'm critical of people who already of their qualms with Schwartz's scheme, which will ultimately be designed for players who aren't even on our team yet. It's just playing the odds, betting we will suck always pays dividends for our poster credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Remember that Schwartz had Haynesworth at his absolute beastly peak and then had Suh. I don't think the Bills have 1 interior player that is, or can be, dominant on that level. When he says "attacking defense", I assume he'll send 4 if it's enough…then 5 and so on…..until he pressure the QB. Whether the Bills blitz depends on whether Kyle is healthy, Dareus and Mario feel like playing and who is the RDE. Our D line is pretty darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 While he claims his D will not change concept I believe that is a misnomer. His D line will attack rather than read and react but with out the blitzing and stunts we saw with Pettine. I hope he is successful. we tried that with Wanny, good luck getting pressure with out blitzing and stunting. Anyone else want to speculate on the new D scheme then criticize the coach based on your speculation? Is it Septwmber yet? that's what forums are for. Do you know any one who doesn't do what they are used to or like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) we tried that with Wanny, good luck getting pressure with out blitzing and stunting. some teams do it well - what worries me is it is incredibly hard to maintain year in and year out as guys like suh, fairley, ansah, avril, vandenbosch, haynesworth, kearse (or osi, tuck, JPP) --- dareus, mario, and kyle (kyle we have gotten lucky with on the lower cost) --- tend to be really expensive to maintain both in terms of high picks and big contracts. when it works, it can be incredibly effective but you need a couple guys that fill very pricy roles, unlike a spot like seattle where the pass rush is designed to come from places that arent quite as debilitating to the cap or specialized if someone gets hurt. for all we knock wannstedt (deservedly for not adjusting) the scheme mightve worked atleast serviceably had Kyle and anderson been healthy, mario not been nicked up and dareus had his head in the game. the problem is, once you cant count on 4 guys to beat 5 lineman plus a back/TE (which takes a GREAT Dline to do consistently) the defense falls apart quickly. Edited January 28, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 How many Dc's come in and say... "We won't be an attacking defense. We're gonna play conservative .. bend but don't break"... Not many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Marrone is the head coach. If a player becomes undisciplined, it's on him. A team, including the assistants are a reflection of him. It's not Schwartz's team, it's Marrone's Good point and what happened to DaRick Rogers when he was taunting and undisciplined in training camp? Out of a job. I have no worries Marrone will not tolerate that behavior with his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Good point and what happened to DaRick Rogers when he was taunting and undisciplined in training camp? Out of a job. I have no worries Marrone will not tolerate that behavior with his players. then its odd hed hire a coach with a history of it both personally, and from his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) While he claims his D will not change concept I believe that is a misnomer. His D line will attack rather than read and react but with out the blitzing and stunts we saw with Pettine. I hope he is successful. I did not hear him make that claim. What I did hear, was that Schwartz admitted that he was not Mike Pettine - and got that out of the way. Then Marrone said that they were already looking at making some changes to make the defense better before Pettine left AND Schwartz said he was going to do a review of the defense and the things we did well he would likely keep and then he would take his own approach to addressing things that our defense did poorly. He does not stick to one philosophy, but game plans based on the opponent and other details like down and distance and such. As far as the wide-9 approach, he was truthful in that every team employs that alignment from time to time and he has found it to be useful with the right personnel. He is in for a bit of a shock regarding Bills fans most of us DO know what a wide 9 alignment is. Basically, all I heard from him is a common-sense approach to defense and to some degree he is right regarding continuity. For most professional football players, playing in the same system for the same guys for more than a few years is rare, and can be considered a luxury or drudgery if the scheme blows. Our guys will adjust, or some of them will move on when their contracts expire (or before if the fit is not right). He didn't sound married to a strict philosophy other than your D-linemen have to win battles.... Edited January 28, 2014 by ColdBlueNorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 How many Dc's come in and say... "We won't be an attacking defense. We're gonna play conservative .. bend but don't break"... Not many I'm pretty sure that was Jauron's philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Schwartz said he was going to do a review of the defense and the things we did well he would likely keep and then he would take his own approach to addressing things that our defense did poorly. He does not stick to one philosophy, but game plans based on the opponent and other details like down and distance and such. There is no way without spending years in the system will he be able call the D like Pettine did. Using our Blitzes and knowing when to do it are to different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm pretty sure that was Jauron's philosophy. It is really simple: I want to be a very aggressive defense,” Jauron, the Browns defensive coordinator, said recently in a phone interview with The Chronicle, one of his first since getting the job in January. “You want to feel like you’re attacking. You don’t want to feel like you’re reacting all the time..." Literally EVERY coach says the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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