The Toronto game may have cost the Bills a shot at the playoffs

[Nitro]

Toronto had nothing to do with missing the play offs. Losses at home to New England (last second FG), Cincinnati (in OT) and Kansas City (100 yard pick 6 14 point swing), all 3 the Bills had a shot at winnig but fell short. Win one or two of those and Toronto does not matter. In a backhanded way, the tepid support for the series from Toronto fans may keep the Bills in place and prevent expansion into that market.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Toronto had nothing to do with missing the play offs. Losses at home to New England (last second FG), Cincinnati (in OT) and Kansas City (100 yard pick 6 14 point swing), all 3 the Bills had a shot at winnig but fell short. Win one or two of those and Toronto does not matter. In a backhanded way, the tepid support for the series from Toronto fans may keep the Bills in place and prevent expansion into that market.

Losing any game in a 16-game season has everything to do with missing the playoffs. Giving up your home field advantage and putting a dome team in comfortable surroundings instead of in your house in the weather absolutely contributes to a loss. As it turned out, it was a loss that had a ripple effect into TB, as others have noted.

 

Also, if you look at how the Bills have played on the road this year, generally, with their rookie QB, putting him at home is a no-brainer. Even in the games where they lost at home, he played better.

[RuntheDamnBall]

if the number one thing is the crowd, go buy tickets people - for all the die hard best in the league talk it surely seems that trip kills a lot of fans. if that game was such a crossroad and the crowd was such a disadvantage, what is the excuse? i know it doesnt work for everyone, but does it really work for nearly no one? or are we so busy showing our displeasure over it that we are sabotaging the team to prove a point? (you in the following being RB) "you wouldve won with a home crowd and you wont get that support from me until you do what i want - and now im going to post about how YOU ruined the season by causing me not to show up" seems to be a pretty big recurring theme that is danced around in this threads.

I am going to quibble with this. Have you ever been to the Rogers Centre? I have, as a Jays fan, many times. It has not aged well and it was NEVER built for football or the football experience. The games are not cheap there, tailgating is horrible/non-existent, the food is far more expensive than at the Ralph, traffic is HORRIFIC en route to the stadium (I left on time from Fredonia for a Jays game and made it for the top of the 7th, to give you an idea of how bad). Why is it worth the hassle and extra expense to go see them in a lousy stadium, with fewer people, when even the players aren't excited to be there? It's asking a LOT of Bills fans.

 

Put them in an outdoor stadium there and it would help. Fix the horrorshow city planning and it would help. Make things more affordable and it would help. Provide an NFL tailgating experience and it would help. There are four major factors that keep Bills fans from coming to the games. You cannot possibly blame them, and these are all on top of the mistrust and suspicion that either ownership or the NFL would secretly be happy to see the team migrate northward.

 

Edit: all of this is to say nothing of the hassle of crossing the border twice in a day, which is nowhere near as easy and pleasant as it was, say, twenty years ago.

[mattsox]

or they could get a Franchise QB

 

Or Stevie Johnson doesn't fumble or Chandler doesn't fumble and we could have won. Or the Defense making a big stop against Atlanta, Or We could have beaten TB in TB

[NoSaint]

 

I am going to quibble with this. Have you ever been to the Rogers Centre? I have, as a Jays fan, many times. It has not aged well and it was NEVER built for football or the football experience. The games are not cheap there, tailgating is horrible/non-existent, the food is far more expensive than at the Ralph, traffic is HORRIFIC en route to the stadium (I left on time from Fredonia for a Jays game and made it for the top of the 7th, to give you an idea of how bad). Why is it worth the hassle and extra expense to go see them in a lousy stadium, with fewer people, when even the players aren't excited to be there? It's asking a LOT of Bills fans.

 

Put them in an outdoor stadium there and it would help. Fix the horrorshow city planning and it would help. Make things more affordable and it would help. Provide an NFL tailgating experience and it would help. There are four major factors that keep Bills fans from coming to the games. You cannot possibly blame them, and these are all on top of the mistrust and suspicion that either ownership or the NFL would secretly be happy to see the team migrate northward.

 

because we likewise struggle to sell out our home games, ill say all you arguments are valid - theres a ton of ticket inventory available to bills fans and it allows picking and choosing a lot more..... but im sorry, for all the posts i read here about how our fanbase is the most die hard, #1 in the league, group.... for a game that has big playoff implications theres certainly a lot of finger pointing and excuses for why no one showed up. its frustrating to hear "the fans at the game suck, so im not going" or "the tailgating isnt as good so im going to skip going to a game with playoff implications." sure the games are not cheap compared to the cheapest tickets in the league that are sitting unsold many weeks at the ralph.... the biggest issue really, is we just arent selling tickets like we need to home or toronto, i suppose. if we were selling out the ralph, id guess more people would jump on the toronto bandwagon as it would be an opportunity to scoop up the limited tickets that would be available to see the bills live and in person.

 

yes, the team has been bad for a long time, and i get that it wears on a fan base... but if you are going to make the argument that the game being moved 2 hours down the road is a 2 game swing in our record and the reason we arent in the playoffs (as some have very much implied), whats really stopping you from showing up and screaming in toronto, besides the fact that you arent quite as fanatical about the team as you want to say you are? (again the disclaimer that i know some sections of the fan base literally cannot, but lets not act like its an obstacle that is insurmountable for most people... its a choice, as much as they avoid saying it)

Edited December 26, 2013 by NoSaint

[Big Gun]

Toronto had nothing to do with missing the play offs. Losses at home to New England (last second FG), Cincinnati (in OT) and Kansas City (100 yard pick 6 14 point swing), all 3 the Bills had a shot at winnig but fell short. Win one or two of those and Toronto does not matter. In a backhanded way, the tepid support for the series from Toronto fans may keep the Bills in place and prevent expansion into that market.

 

Ok, I guess I can buy into that thought a bit as a playoff team should be able to beat a bad team anywhere. Can you explain the extra week of preparation 6 teams had in preparing to play the Bills? Did that hamper the Bills playoff chances? I think it did. Atlanta also had 2 extra days of preparations going into Toronto game. I also think that aided Atlanta.

 

Look not making excuses for the Bills as good teams win games but they most defiantly weren't given any favors by the NFL that's for damn sure. They had to overcome more to win games than other teams, and that includes the Toronto game. They were not able to do that.

[RuntheDamnBall]

because we likewise struggle to sell out our home games, ill say all you arguments are valid - theres a ton of ticket inventory available to bills fans and it allows picking and choosing a lot more..... but im sorry, for all the posts i read here about how our fanbase is the most die hard, #1 in the league, group.... for a game that has big playoff implications theres certainly a lot of finger pointing and excuses for why no one showed up. its frustrating to hear "the fans at the game suck, so im not going" or "the tailgating isnt as good so im going to skip going to a game with playoff implications." sure the games are not cheap compared to the cheapest tickets in the league that are sitting unsold many weeks at the ralph.... the biggest issue really, is we just arent selling tickets like we need to home or toronto, i suppose. if we were selling out the ralph, id guess more people would jump on the toronto bandwagon as it would be an opportunity to scoop up the limited tickets that would be available to see the bills live and in person.

 

yes, the team has been bad for a long time, and i get that it wears on a fan base... but if you are going to make the argument that the game being moved 2 hours down the road is a 2 game swing in our record and the reason we arent in the playoffs (as some have very much implied), whats really stopping you from showing up and screaming in toronto, besides the fact that you arent quite as fanatical about the team as you want to say you are? (again the disclaimer that i know some sections of the fan base literally cannot, but lets not act like its an obstacle that is insurmountable for most people... its a choice, as much as they avoid saying it)

While I can't disagree, the team hasn't earned a lot of trust over the years. Be above .500 in November and those games will sell out. I can't guarantee it, but I'd say it's pretty likely.

 

Ok, I guess I can buy into that thought a bit as a playoff team should be able to beat a bad team anywhere. Can you explain the extra week of preparation 6 teams had in preparing to play the Bills? Did that hamper the Bills playoff chances? I think it did. Atlanta also had 2 extra days of preparations going into Toronto game. I also think that aided Atlanta.

 

Look not making excuses for the Bills as good teams win games but they most defiantly weren't given any favors by the NFL that's for damn sure. They had to overcome more to win games than other teams, and that includes the Toronto game. They were not able to do that.

Atlanta is a bad team but they have had a rough year on the injury front and they were one really bad bobble away from at least tying SF in the last regular season game in front of devoted fans in their storied house. It always comes down to a few plays in the NFL separating good and bad, lucky and unlucky. Being good scores you a bit more luck, but let's not act like this is the Lions 0-16 team.

[RevWarRifleman]

Admittedly, I don't know where the Bills fall along the tiebreaker spectrum vis-a-vis the five 8-7 and 7-8 AFC teams, but if they had played the Atlanta game in Orchard Park, the Bills would in all likelihood be 7-8 right now. If that was the case, next Sunday's game against NE could be be truly meaningful. Someone needs to raise that with Brandon. The Toronto series has to end.

Forget the Atlanta game, it's in the past. It was no more costly than our other 8 loses, be they at The Ralph or on the road. And the NE game is not a "could be" meaningless game. You can't change the past, but you can look to the future & a win for the Bills Sunday will indicate a lot for our future. JMO Go Bills.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I'm not sure why I'm being singled out here as before this post, I had only posted 4 times in this thread.

 

As to the bolded below, my point is that it's inarguable that playing in Toronto neuters the home field advantage for the Bills. That some would argue this is actually incredible.

 

This line of discussion is becoming rather tiresome. Points have been made. It is also evident that minds are made up. Might be time to let this one drop. This has gone from discussion to a form of pointless arguing.

 

Fact is the Bills have missed the playoffs. Their entire w-l record contributed to this situation. I think it is also safe to say the vast majority of Bills fans would prefer that the game in Toronto go away. It is not broadly supported. Whether it contributes to the loss of advantage to the team is a moot point.

 

And below is the reason I posted in the first place.

 

WEO basically suggests that trading a home game for a neutral site game doesn't disadvantage the Bills.

 

Buffalo doesn't have the same advantage in a dome as any other team? Strange reasoning and magical thinking are fueling the OP's (and others) arguments.

 

Over and out. I promise.

[Paulmac]

Coulda woulda shoulda...let's not forget the last minute losses that affected our record far more than a 1 game in Ontario...lets face it, until the new owner is settled on, the Bills will be a whore and take the Toronto money in the vain attempt to become a regional franchise....Russ Brandon, reprising his role as Colonel Klink, will make sure the Canadian dollars flow south, now that its value is at a historical high vs the dollar.

[NoSaint]

I'm not sure why I'm being singled out here as before this post, I had only posted 4 times in this thread.

 

As to the bolded below, my point is that it's inarguable that playing in Toronto neuters the home field advantage for the Bills. That some would argue this is actually incredible.

 

 

 

And below is the reason I posted in the first place.

 

WEO basically suggests that trading a home game for a neutral site game doesn't disadvantage the Bills.

 

 

 

Over and out. I promise.

 

What "same advantage in a dome" do you think he's referring to if not the perks of a controlled environment benefiting our team just like it would the falcons? That's not "homefield advantage" but saying the bills can utilize the dome just like the falcons. There have been arguments that beyond the crowd, the bills somehow play worse in a dome or much like the snow hurting a southern team somehow the dome is a location we aren't suited for(don't recall this thread vs the 14 others on the topic and not searching to double check if its been mentioned) but am fairly sure that's all he's saying. The falcons get the good weather but so do we just like any other team.

Edited December 27, 2013 by NoSaint

[strive_for_five_guy]

Forget the Atlanta game, it's in the past. It was no more costly than our other 8 loses, be they at The Ralph or on the road. And the NE game is not a "could be" meaningless game. You can't change the past, but you can look to the future & a win for the Bills Sunday will indicate a lot for our future. JMO Go Bills.

 

My interpretation of the OP's point is that the Toronto series needs to end, meaning in "the future". The series exists for no other reason besides money. Even when the Bills play a game there that could lead to being in the playoffs, almost half the crowd is cheering for the opponent and the Toronto media proceeds to say after the game how they aren't ready to accept the Bills until they start winning. Does that kind of fan base deserve even one home game a year from your Buffalo Bills? Folks can argue about whether the Bills woulda or coulda been in the playoffs if this or that happened this year. But, removing the Toronto series in the future is something that could be even the slightest difference-maker in getting a win to be in the playoffs or not, win the division or not, get a bye or not, etc.

[Nitro]

Old School I agree the NFL schedule hurt the Bills with the 6 opponents coming off bye weeks. That was real screw job. Run the damn Ball. My Point was blaming the Toronto loss was short sighted in that the earlier losses had a bigger impact. Win those and the Toronto game is moot. Losing any game diminishes a team chances to make the playoffs. Bills need to be a better home team.

[apuszczalowski]

My interpretation of the OP's point is that the Toronto series needs to end, meaning in "the future". The series exists for no other reason besides money. Even when the Bills play a game there that could lead to being in the playoffs, almost half the crowd is cheering for the opponent and the Toronto media proceeds to say after the game how they aren't ready to accept the Bills until they start winning. Does that kind of fan base deserve even one home game a year from your Buffalo Bills? Folks can argue about whether the Bills woulda or coulda been in the playoffs if this or that happened this year. But, removing the Toronto series in the future is something that could be even the slightest difference-maker in getting a win to be in the playoffs or not, win the division or not, get a bye or not, etc.

then how do the people of Buffalo deserve the Bills? Every year when the team has blacked out games in November and December (or the threats of a blackout that lead to Ralph or others buying the remaining tickets for the "Leagues greatest fans") all we hear from teh fans is that once they start winning the stadium will be sold out, people will buy tickets then!

 

This is all just more temper tantrums being thrown by insecure fans who want any excuse they can to continue living in their dream world that Buffalo is bigger then it is and can support an NFL franchise all on their own without help.