Doc Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Except its not BS. Firstly PI, is RARELY called on the last play of the game. Secondly, you can't just dismiss the fact that the Panthers DB was there and that he intercepted the ball. It's an important part of the call. The DB realizes before Gronkowski that the ball is being underthrown, hence why he cuts in front of Gronkowski to catch the ball. At that point there is definitely no PI on Kuechly. Why doesn't Gronkowski break back towards the ball at the same time the DB does? Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting. I think it's because he doesn't realize how underthrown it is or he thinks he can't stop his 250lb body/momentum on a dime. Either way, he's too late to make a play on the ball. Yeah, you can't just take the DB out of the equation. He was there and made the play. And if Kuechly didn't interfere, Gronk has to go through him AND the DB to make the catch. Not happening, given Gronk's momentum, which is why he didn't fight to come back for the underthrown ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 So he said nothing at all. Sitting on the fence. This points more to the fact that once the call is made it should not have been overturned. which ignores that he said throwing the flag on the contact and turning to discuss whether it was catchable with the guy with the side view was the proper mechanics. they decided uncatchable. this isnt like a replay overturning something on the field, the flag was simply a placeholder for a discussion to take place at the close of the play. they discussed and decided no penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Except its not BS. Firstly PI, is RARELY called on the last play of the game. Secondly, you can't just dismiss the fact that the Panthers DB was there and that he intercepted the ball. It's an important part of the call. The DB realizes before Gronkowski that the ball is being underthrown, hence why he cuts in front of Gronkowski to catch the ball. At that point there is definitely no PI on Kuechly. Why doesn't Gronkowski break back towards the ball at the same time the DB does? Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting. I think it's because he doesn't realize how underthrown it is or he thinks he can't stop his 250lb body/momentum on a dime. Either way, he's too late to make a play on the ball. First off, I'm glad as heck that the Pats got boned, but right is right and wrong is wrong. Secondly, you might want to watch ESPN Sportscenter sometime today, and look for the "Sports Science" segment they did on this play, BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY DISPELS YOUR OPINIONS ABOVE. The statement that "Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer (sic) with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read anywhere, at anytime. Kuechly's BACK was to the QB, and he had NO IDEA that the ball was coming in, while Gronk saw the ball, put on the brakes, and was trying to come back for the ball (the Sports Science segment shows you this). To try and say that Kuechly's 250-lb+ body, moving toward the end line, WITH BOTH ARMS WRAPPED AROUND Gronk, did not impede Gronk is laughable and ridiculous. Also, I'm sure you've probably seen the replay that ESPN has been running, where they put the "bullseye" graphic on the turf where Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly, then a second later, they put the "bullseye" graphic where the DB intercepts the ball, and the two bullseyes are about ONE YARD apart. Finally, I will agree that PI is rarely called on a last play which is a "Hail Mary", but this wasn't a Hail Mary, and I've seen plenty of last play PI calls over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) First off, I'm glad as heck that the Pats got boned, but right is right and wrong is wrong. Secondly, you might want to watch ESPN Sportscenter sometime today, and look for the "Sports Science" segment they did on this play, BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY DISPELS YOUR OPINIONS ABOVE. The statement that "Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer (sic) with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read anywhere, at anytime. Kuechly's BACK was to the QB, and he had NO IDEA that the ball was coming in, while Gronk saw the ball, put on the brakes, and was trying to come back for the ball (the Sports Science segment shows you this). To try and say that Kuechly's 250-lb+ body, moving toward the end line, WITH BOTH ARMS WRAPPED AROUND Gronk, did not impede Gronk is laughable and ridiculous. Also, I'm sure you've probably seen the replay that ESPN has been running, where they put the "bullseye" graphic on the turf where Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly, then a second later, they put the "bullseye" graphic where the DB intercepts the ball, and the two bullseyes are about ONE YARD apart. Finally, I will agree that PI is rarely called on a last play which is a "Hail Mary", but this wasn't a Hail Mary, and I've seen plenty of last play PI calls over the years. what your seemingly not addressing is that LK first touches him before he even remotely begins to try to stop to get back to the ball, and that it isnt outright shoving. it doesnt even become a grab until gronk gets to the point that he would only have time for about 1 step and his momentum is still going in the opposite direction. its not like LK picked him up at the goalline and carried him out the back of the endzone here. it started with much lighter contact until gronk tried to turn (but it was too late anyway) if that first shove to the shoulder pushed gronk back several yards and multiple steps, as a 6'6 265lbs physical guy.... well i just dont see it. Edited November 20, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) First off, I'm glad as heck that the Pats got boned, but right is right and wrong is wrong. Secondly, you might want to watch ESPN Sportscenter sometime today, and look for the "Sports Science" segment they did on this play, BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY DISPELS YOUR OPINIONS ABOVE. The statement that "Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer (sic) with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read anywhere, at anytime. Kuechly's BACK was to the QB, and he had NO IDEA that the ball was coming in, while Gronk saw the ball, put on the brakes, and was trying to come back for the ball (the Sports Science segment shows you this). To try and say that Kuechly's 250-lb+ body, moving toward the end line, WITH BOTH ARMS WRAPPED AROUND Gronk, did not impede Gronk is laughable and ridiculous. Also, I'm sure you've probably seen the replay that ESPN has been running, where they put the "bullseye" graphic on the turf where Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly, then a second later, they put the "bullseye" graphic where the DB intercepts the ball, and the two bullseyes are about ONE YARD apart. Finally, I will agree that PI is rarely called on a last play which is a "Hail Mary", but this wasn't a Hail Mary, and I've seen plenty of last play PI calls over the years. Right is right and your post is right on! Pass interference starts at the first "bullseye". Edited November 20, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Another angle is that what if the guy who intercepted it would have blown the pic, and the ball bounces off him and goes up in the air, ripe for Gronk to just reel it in.....but because LK is totally interfering with him, of course there's no chance for him to do that. You CAN'T just look at what happened AFTERWARDS and say, well, the guy intercepted it, so Gronk had no chance on it. That logic would basically make ALL PI calls go away, because you COULD rationalize that "well, even though the WR was interfered with, there's no guarantee that he would have caught the ball anyway. You know, WRs sometimes do DROP the ball even when they're wide open." LOL I'm done here, the science and logic is on my side....LK & the Panthers are REAL lucky to have that flag picked up. Again, glad the Pats got boned; they deserve it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 , the science and logic is on my side....LK & the Panthers are REAL lucky to have that flag picked up. Again, glad the Pats got boned; they deserve it! +1 I would also add the NFL rule book on what constitutes pass interference as well. Your quote above sums up this entire situation perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 "well, even though the WR was interfered with, there's no guarantee that he would have caught the ball anyway. You know, WRs sometimes do DROP the ball even when they're wide open." LOL thats an absolutely absurd leap to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Re the notion that refs don't call penalties on last-play hail marys (not that that play was a hail mary in any way): I suggest checking in with Henry Jones about that. Bills fans with a memory will know what I'm referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 First off, I'm glad as heck that the Pats got boned, but right is right and wrong is wrong. Secondly, you might want to watch ESPN Sportscenter sometime today, and look for the "Sports Science" segment they did on this play, BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY DISPELS YOUR OPINIONS ABOVE. The statement that "Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer (sic) with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read anywhere, at anytime. Kuechly's BACK was to the QB, and he had NO IDEA that the ball was coming in, while Gronk saw the ball, put on the brakes, and was trying to come back for the ball (the Sports Science segment shows you this). To try and say that Kuechly's 250-lb+ body, moving toward the end line, WITH BOTH ARMS WRAPPED AROUND Gronk, did not impede Gronk is laughable and ridiculous. Also, I'm sure you've probably seen the replay that ESPN has been running, where they put the "bullseye" graphic on the turf where Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly, then a second later, they put the "bullseye" graphic where the DB intercepts the ball, and the two bullseyes are about ONE YARD apart. Finally, I will agree that PI is rarely called on a last play which is a "Hail Mary", but this wasn't a Hail Mary, and I've seen plenty of last play PI calls over the years. I'm sorry but I don't need ESPNs analysts OPINION, because that's what is is, to make my mind up. I can do that for myself. At the end of the day it's a refs JUDGMENT or opinion of the play. So no you don't have science behind you because there is in fact no science in this. It's still yours, ESPNs, former NFL refs, the pope, satan's opinion if it was pass interference and I will disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) I'm sorry but I don't need ESPNs analysts OPINION, because that's what is is, to make my mind up. I can do that for myself. At the end of the day it's a refs JUDGMENT or opinion of the play. So no you don't have science behind you because there is in fact no science in this. It's still yours, ESPNs, former NFL refs, the pope, satan's opinion if it was pass interference and I will disagree with you. If refs went off their "opinion" on calls they should be fired. Going by the rule book and judgement...sure. Edited November 20, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 No one has answered my question from a few pages ago. When the Pats were on their 20 yard line and 3rd and 10, Brady was in the pocket and the blitz was on. He seemed to have thrown it to the right with what I FEEL to be no one around. Am I the only one that noticed this? Why wasn't it Intentional Grouding? Cheers, Curitiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 No one has answered my question from a few pages ago. When the Pats were on their 20 yard line and 3rd and 10, Brady was in the pocket and the blitz was on. He seemed to have thrown it to the right with what I FEEL to be no one around. Am I the only one that noticed this? Why wasn't it Intentional Grouding? Cheers, Curitiba itd probably help if you had some sort of replay of the play in question - off memory alone that can be hard to recall. id guess they ruled someone was in the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 what your seemingly not addressing is that LK first touches him before he even remotely begins to try to stop to get back to the ball, and that it isnt outright shoving. it doesnt even become a grab until gronk gets to the point that he would only have time for about 1 step and his momentum is still going in the opposite direction. its not like LK picked him up at the goalline and carried him out the back of the endzone here. it started with much lighter contact until gronk tried to turn (but it was too late anyway) if that first shove to the shoulder pushed gronk back several yards and multiple steps, as a 6'6 265lbs physical guy.... well i just dont see it. If you watch this clip from above like 5 times straight, you will notice that his momentum is a major factor. REGARDLESS OF FIRST POINT OF CONTACT. His momentum was driving him to the back of the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 @SI_PeterKing . @DonBanks weighs in on Week 11's officiating controversies: http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/20/roy-ellison-clete-blakeman-referee-woes/ … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 First off, I'm glad as heck that the Pats got boned, but right is right and wrong is wrong. Secondly, you might want to watch ESPN Sportscenter sometime today, and look for the "Sports Science" segment they did on this play, BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY DISPELS YOUR OPINIONS ABOVE. The statement that "Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer (sic) with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting" is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read anywhere, at anytime. Kuechly's BACK was to the QB, and he had NO IDEA that the ball was coming in, while Gronk saw the ball, put on the brakes, and was trying to come back for the ball (the Sports Science segment shows you this). To try and say that Kuechly's 250-lb+ body, moving toward the end line, WITH BOTH ARMS WRAPPED AROUND Gronk, did not impede Gronk is laughable and ridiculous. Also, I'm sure you've probably seen the replay that ESPN has been running, where they put the "bullseye" graphic on the turf where Gronk is first contacted by Kuechly, then a second later, they put the "bullseye" graphic where the DB intercepts the ball, and the two bullseyes are about ONE YARD apart. Finally, I will agree that PI is rarely called on a last play which is a "Hail Mary", but this wasn't a Hail Mary, and I've seen plenty of last play PI calls over the years. They can do anything they want on that show. As has been said before, he was not in the best scenario. Gronk was double teamed and out of position. The db was free and was in most favorable position to make the play. I love saying it. This is all on Brady. But really watch the clip like 10-50 times if you need, Gronk was running towards the back, the momentum to suddenly brake and come back was too much to overcome. The ball is coming in too fast and too low. No one has answered my question from a few pages ago. When the Pats were on their 20 yard line and 3rd and 10, Brady was in the pocket and the blitz was on. He seemed to have thrown it to the right with what I FEEL to be no one around. Am I the only one that noticed this? Why wasn't it Intentional Grouding? Cheers, Curitiba Sorry dude. I dont recall it. Maybe it was intentional grounding. But they dont call that on the pats. C'mon man. They didnt flag the freaking leg whip THAT GOT A PLAYER INJURED, why would they flag pretty boy brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) If refs went off their "opinion" on calls they should be fired. Going by the rule book and judgement...sure. Have your noticed that the words uncatcheable and catchable aren't in the NFL rule book... And they aren't defined. The rule book doesn't have everything in it... There is also this: to judge v. judged, judg·ing, judg·es v.tr. 1. To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character. See that word opinion in there... Edited November 20, 2013 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 If you watch this clip from above like 5 times straight, you will notice that his momentum is a major factor. REGARDLESS OF FIRST POINT OF CONTACT. His momentum was driving him to the back of the endzone. I don't know.... To me it looks like his right foot plants where the middle of the "O" is, and would likely have been able to push forward from that point if not for being slightly unbalanced from the DB. Either way I can't see him being able to catch the ball......and at best have a minimal chance to stop the INT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 He was drifting away from the ball, and would have had to push Kuechly out of the way to get position on the ball, and he is out of the play by the time Kuechly puts his arms around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 note that Gronk swats the defenders hands first, at which time he should have just stopped where he was and let the defender past him and then stepped up re-watching game rewind on NFLN much less stressful than Monday night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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