Is it too early to give Buddy credit for last draft class?

[yungmack]

No, Spiller was Buddy's pick --- Buddy was named GM before the Spiller draft --- I don't get you guys, you really think the Bills were going to let Buddy make the decisions when they had already decided to replace him with Whaley 2 months before the draft, they only hadn't announced it publicly ?? --- the naïvete on these boards is amazing -- lame ducks don't make decisions, they contribute, which I'm sure Buddy did during the process -- but no way he made the decisions on draft day --- I don't care if he was on the phone when the cameras were rolling --- he was probably talking to his realtor

The Bills were always going to replace Buddy with Whaley; that had to be the deal.

 

If you remember, Brandon effectively took over the team and made himself the GM. What he did next tells me that the Bills FO situation today was planned out from the beginning. First off, he brings back Buddy Nix, age 70, retiring from football, to head up scouting, an area that was not in the best shape. And that's what Buddy took care of from the start and through his entire tenure.

 

Having wrested control of the team from whoever, and with the scouting department renewed, Brandon turned the reins over to Nix who almost immediately brought in Whaley to mentor. Remember, Brandon had gotten to know Whaley and clearly identified him as a real football administration talent. That's as much a Brandon hire as Buddy was. Among themselves, they identified the key player positions that needed shoring up and went to work on them for the next three years, a plan that's bearing fruit right now. Having gotten the team back on the right path, with Brandon's control over the team formalized, and with Whaley ready to take over, Buddy finally got to that retirement he was headed to 4 years earlier.

 

Do I know this is exactly what happened? No, I do not. But the signs are all there that this or something very much like it was the plan all along. Buddy was never going to be the long term GM and he must have know that from the beginning. My guess is that Brandon would have liked to hire Whaley as GM right out of the gate but either judged that he wasn't quite ready for it, or would be destroyed by stepping into the mess that then was the Bills so he turned to an old Bills guy who was done with football in any case, a first-rate talent and scouting evaluator who gave the Bills respectability with players and agents while helping to stabilize the situation in the wake of Donohoe and Levy. I could imagine Brandon saying something like this to Nix: "Look, I know you're retiring. But could you give me one year and get the scouting department back in shape? And if you find you've still got the fire for the game, I'll bump you up to GM the next year. You only have to do that for two or three years because I've got a young guy who needs a mentor like you, then he can take over. It'll be a nice capper to a great career. What do you say?"

 

The two biggest knocks I hear about Nix is that he made a "bad" hire with Gailey, and that he never drafted a franchise QB. As to the first, unless you've been in a coma, the Bills were such a toxic situation that not only couldn't they hire a top-tier coach, they couldn't even get them to interview for the job. Contrast that just three years after Buddy was named GM when they were lined up around the block to get a shot at the job. And as to drafting a franchise QB, Nix never had a shot at the top guys and refused to "reach" for one when he had so many other holes to fill. BTW, if EJ works out, then Nix will have drafted the franchise QB. But of course, that was Whaley's pick.

[TXBILLSFAN]

The Bills were always going to replace Buddy with Whaley; that had to be the deal.

 

If you remember, Brandon effectively took over the team and made himself the GM. What he did next tells me that the Bills FO situation today was planned out from the beginning. First off, he brings back Buddy Nix, age 70, retiring from football, to head up scouting, an area that was not in the best shape. And that's what Buddy took care of from the start and through his entire tenure.

 

Having wrested control of the team from whoever, and with the scouting department renewed, Brandon turned the reins over to Nix who almost immediately brought in Whaley to mentor. Remember, Brandon had gotten to know Whaley and clearly identified him as a real football administration talent. That's as much a Brandon hire as Buddy was. Among themselves, they identified the key player positions that needed shoring up and went to work on them for the next three years, a plan that's bearing fruit right now. Having gotten the team back on the right path, with Brandon's control over the team formalized, and with Whaley ready to take over, Buddy finally got to that retirement he was headed to 4 years earlier.

 

Do I know this is exactly what happened? No, I do not. But the signs are all there that this or something very much like it was the plan all along. Buddy was never going to be the long term GM and he must have know that from the beginning. My guess is that Brandon would have liked to hire Whaley as GM right out of the gate but either judged that he wasn't quite ready for it, or would be destroyed by stepping into the mess that then was the Bills so he turned to an old Bills guy who was done with football in any case, a first-rate talent and scouting evaluator who gave the Bills respectability with players and agents while helping to stabilize the situation in the wake of Donohoe and Levy. I could imagine Brandon saying something like this to Nix: "Look, I know you're retiring. But could you give me one year and get the scouting department back in shape? And if you find you've still got the fire for the game, I'll bump you up to GM the next year. You only have to do that for two or three years because I've got a young guy who needs a mentor like you, then he can take over. It'll be a nice capper to a great career. What do you say?"

 

The two biggest knocks I hear about Nix is that he made a "bad" hire with Gailey, and that he never drafted a franchise QB. As to the first, unless you've been in a coma, the Bills were such a toxic situation that not only couldn't they hire a top-tier coach, they couldn't even get them to interview for the job. Contrast that just three years after Buddy was named GM when they were lined up around the block to get a shot at the job. And as to drafting a franchise QB, Nix never had a shot at the top guys and refused to "reach" for one when he had so many other holes to fill. BTW, if EJ works out, then Nix will have drafted the franchise QB. But of course, that was Whaley's pick.

I can live with the Gailey decision, I too remember how caustic the situation was in Buffalo when Buddy was elevated to GM -- and, BTW, having Nix as GM didn't breed confidence in the Bills as an organization around the league back then -- maybe it was a chicken and the egg type deal -- i.e. couldn't get a top notch GM, so you couldn't get a top notch HC --- anyway, the biggest mistake Buddy made was not drafting a QB (there were several he passed on and more that he didn't move up for, most notably was Graham instead of Russell Wilson) --- and to make matters worse, he extended Fitzpatrick and had too much blind faith in Fitz and Gailey --- so, under the category of QB, he gets an F --- and, in the end, I'm still not buying that EJ was Buddy's pick --- I'm not trying to take anything away from Buddy or place blame where none is deserved, but it is not logical that Buddy would sit there and make the decision knowing his successor in waiting would be saddled with that decision ----

[BillsBytheBay]

 

No, Spiller was Buddy's pick --- Buddy was named GM before the Spiller draft --- I don't get you guys, you really think the Bills were going to let Buddy make the decisions when they had already decided to replace him with Whaley 2 months before the draft, they only hadn't announced it publicly ?? --- the naïvete on these boards is amazing -- lame ducks don't make decisions, they contribute, which I'm sure Buddy did during the process -- but no way he made the decisions on draft day --- I don't care if he was on the phone when the cameras were rolling --- he was probably talking to his realtor

unless you were in the room with Buddy, talking to realtor, you're just drawing different conclutions from the same info I am. Ok, lets say you are right. The only talent starting on this team is Kiko, and Woods. Everyone else was a Nix guy, and that means they need to be replaced?

You know Whaley has been on the staff the whole time Buddy was GM....should we really draw the line on THIS draft?

Edited October 24, 2013 by JaxBills

[San-O]

It doesn't matter. Buddy Nix salvaged our roster. I mean really, at this point every player on our team outside of Leonard were signed, or re-signed by Nix, but some will never be able to give him credit. Nix saved our franchise.

 

 

Buddy? Is that you? You old fox!!!

 

Seriously, Buddy Nix was the savior? What did he save is from? Perrenial 7 - 9 seasons? Being bored to death every Sunday by Tricky Dick? Having a legit QB for the first time in over a decade? The horrors of having to purchase playoff tickets?

 

[TXBILLSFAN]

unless you were in the room with Buddy, talking to realtor, you're just drawing different conclutions from the same info I am. Ok, lets say you are right. The only talent starting on this team is Kiko, and Woods. Everyone else was a Nix guy, and that means they need to be replaced?

Not at all --- I've said all along, Nix deserves credit for bringing the talent to Buffalo that he drafted or signed, like Spiller, Dareus, Pears, Mario, Aaron Williams, Brooks, Easley, Chandler and others -- he started with a roster that was probably a D and left it a C --- some progress, but in my opinion, not enough for 3 years as GM ---- what happened after January is on Whaley --- the draft, not resigning Levitre, tagging Byrd and all the UDFA's and the few FA's --- I'm just trying to draw a line of responsibility and ownership so it's clear who we hold accountable ---- Woods, Kiko and Manuel are on Whaley's watch letting Levitre walk and tagging Byrd, again Whaley's watch --- the good and the bad --- ---- one other point, and to be fair -- if Whaley turns out to be the next Bill Polian, Buddy deserves some credit for helping mentor him and show him the GM ropes and having the confidence to operate as a GM knowing your replacement was sitting in the room with you --- I take nothing away from Nix and I am trying to be fair to him, but his record speaks for itself and nothing can change that ---- now, if Aaron Williams, Gilmore, Spiller and Darues get into Canton and Carrington, Pears, Chandler become All-Pro's --- his legacy will certainly change ---

Edited October 24, 2013 by TXBILLSFAN

[BillsBytheBay]

 

 

Buddy? Is that you? You old fox!!!

 

Seriously, Buddy Nix was the savior? What did he save is from? Perrenial 7 - 9 seasons? Being bored to death every Sunday by Tricky Dick? Having a legit QB for the first time in over a decade? The horrors of having to purchase playoff tickets?

 

I see what you're saying, but someone had to decide this was a football team, so bringing in football players, and football people was what we needed.

 

Nix had to know with taking that job....with the roster we had, and his age, he would never reap the benifits, but yes savior.

 

He wrung out the entire roster, set up a GM succession, and left the building with Talent, and what he felt was our QB.

[K-9]

Not a single solitary soul around here knows for certain how the draft was done and who held final serve. But I'm pretty certain about one thing, that all the people who "know" Nix was powerless, and "heard" from unimpeachable sources that Whaley made the calls, and have the "facts" to prove Nix was a bust are exactly the type who get their "facts" and "knowledge" from FOX/Limbo/Hackity. It is so much easier to get behind a belief system that suits our biases when we do it without any real information or facts, in our addled minds.

 

Just to be clear, when I say that I've heard Whaley was in the Kirk chair, I am in NO WAY denigrating the work that Buddy did over the last several years. If I bring any bias, it's usually slanted towards the organization as I have a ton of respect and affection for Mr. Wilson. That said, I know that both Mr. Wilson and Buddy would be the first people to say they've made some dumb decisions over the years. Like every person on the planet. They'd also be the first to agree with their critics when it comes to the lack of success they've had in the win column.

 

Personally, I think those critics, especially those in this forum, could take a lesson from them in that regard.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JESSEFEFFER]

That was Buddy on the infamous phone conversation with TB's Dominic. It was Buddy that said they were open to trading down this year. It was Buddy that said that they had identified a "franchise caliber" QB in this year's draft while most others were saying one did not exist in this class. It was Buddy that said before the draft that he wanted to have a franchise QB in place before he retired.

 

I think it was Buddy's show but Whaley was involved with every big decision they made. The reason this matters is that if this draft sets up their roster for future success, as it very well might, it would define Buddy's tenure as one that "set the table."

 

By the way, most of his defensive picks are looking much better under Pettine's coaching. If EJ is a hit, then he did B work in my book. Gailey made chicken salad with the offense to the point where SJ, Chandler, and the o-line were identified as assets. There was enough right with this offensive roster that a rookie could step in with a chance to succeed.

 

The mess on D may have only amounted to picking earlier in the draft but I have to believe that Pettine saw the roster and liked it enough to think this was a good place to improve his resume.

[BillsBytheBay]

 

Not at all --- I've said all along, Nix deserves credit for bringing the talent to Buffalo that he drafted or signed, like Spiller, Dareus, Pears, Mario, Aaron Williams, Brooks, Easley, Chandler and others -- he started with a roster that was probably a D and left it a C --- some progress, but in my opinion, not enough for 3 years as GM ---- what happened after January is on Whaley --- the draft, not resigning Levitre, tagging Byrd and all the UDFA's and the few FA's --- I'm just trying to draw a line of responsibility and ownership so it's clear who we hold accountable ---- Woods, Kiko and Manuel are on Whaley's watch letting Levitre walk and tagging Byrd, again Whaley's watch --- the good and the bad --- ---- one other point, and to be fair -- if Whaley turns out to be the next Bill Polian, Buddy deserves some credit for helping mentor him and show him the GM ropes and having the confidence to operate as a GM knowing your replacement was sitting in the room with you --- I take nothing away from Nix and I am trying to be fair to him, but his record speaks for itself and nothing can change that ---- now, if Aaron Williams, Gilmore, Spiller and Darues get into Canton and Carrington, Pears, Chandler become All-Pro's --- his legacy will certainly change ---

you're trying to find someone to blame for the losses. I understand. If you think we went from a D to a C roster, than that's the actual basis of our disagreement. We have a VERY talented roster. We have poor QB play (and still won three games already).

Thanx Buddy.

 

That was Buddy on the infamous phone conversation with TB's Dominic. It was Buddy that said they were open to trading down this year. It was Buddy that said that they had identified a "franchise caliber" QB in this year's draft while most others were saying one did not exist in this class. It was Buddy that said before the draft that he wanted to have a franchise QB in place before he retired.

 

I think it was Buddy's show but Whaley was involved with every big decision they made. The reason this matters is that if this draft sets up their roster for future success, as it very well might, it would define Buddy's tenure as one that "set the table."

 

By the way, most of his defensive picks are looking much better under Pettine's coaching. If EJ is a hit, then he did B work in my book. Gailey made chicken salad with the offense to the point where SJ, Chandler, and the o-line were identified as assets. There was enough right with this offensive roster that a rookie could step in with a chance to succeed.

 

The mess on D may have only amounted to picking earlier in the draft but I have to believe that Pettine saw the roster and liked it enough to think this was a good place to improve his resume.

I agree Edited October 24, 2013 by JaxBills

[K-9]

you're trying to find someone to blame for the losses. I understand. If you think we went from a D to a C roster, than that's the actual basis of our disagreement. We have a VERY talented roster. We have poor QB play (and still won three games already).

Thanx Buddy.

 

I agree

 

I'd characterize it as inconsistent QB play rather than just poor.

 

Honestly, I don't know how anyone could have expected anything else with a rookie taking the helm and now a practice squad QB filling in while he's out injured.

 

There's a difference between hoping/wishing EJ Manuel was Andrew Luck 2.0 and still having grounded, realistic expectations of a rookie QB with promise but who needed time to develop. Hell, even Andrew Luck 1.0 was inconsistent his rookie year. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[BillsBytheBay]

And somehow Buddy's poor roster decisions keep us in games with some talented teams

[TXBILLSFAN]

you're trying to find someone to blame for the losses. I understand. If you think we went from a D to a C roster, than that's the actual basis of our disagreement. We have a VERY talented roster. We have poor QB play (and still won three games already).

Thanx Buddy.

 

I agree

I agree (as I stated a D to a C) that Buddy improved the roster, the question is did he do as much as he should have in the 3 years he was GM --- I would say NO --- while the record would say F for failure, I acknowledge he added talent --- just not enough --- you have to remember, the Bills picked in the upper third of every round of every one of those 3 drafts --- not to mention, he wiffed on HC, or, at a minimum on 2 DC's --- like I said in last post, I'd be open to revising his grade if "his guys" continue to show improvement under the new coaching staff ---- I actually liked Buddy, I thought he was colorful and definitely a "football guy" -- I think he has eye for talent -- I credit him for believing in Glenn as a LT and as other picks show improvement under this coaching staff (Carrington, Easley, A Williams and Dareus) -- that reflects well on him --- unfortunately, at this point it's not enough -- in the end, the W/L record is the W/L record

[GG]

And somehow Buddy's poor roster decisions keep us in games with some talented teams

 

Do the Bills have the same record with Barnett at LB vs St. Kiko?

[TXBILLSFAN]

And somehow Buddy's poor roster decisions keep us in games with some talented teams

Jax -- you have to want more than for a team to be "in games with some talented teams" -- I'm sorry, but being competitive vs. winning is a huge difference ---- we as fans deserve more and should expect more ---- Marrone agrees and says it in his motto "Don't confuse effort with results" ---

[Dibs]

Buddy:

 

1. failed to draft a QB for three years, leaving the Bills in the horrible position they are now at that position.

2. brought in a Chan Gailey, who was not a viable head coach candidate.

3. allowed Chan to be OC and HC, which was a bad mistake.

4. after three years, had one of the worst D units in the history of the Bills.

5. kept on insisting Fitz was their guy, when clearly he was not an NFL starter and couldn't throw the ball.

6. took the Bills to a worse win/loss record over three years than the previous regime.

7. drafting? No comment.

 

 

What else do we really need to know?

 

 

Odd post considering that this is a thread about Buddy's drafting.

[BillsBytheBay]

 

Jax -- you have to want more than for a team to be "in games with some talented teams" -- I'm sorry, but being competitive vs. winning is a huge difference ---- we as fans deserve more and should expect more ---- Marrone agrees and says it in his motto "Don't confuse effort with results" ---

I'm not saying I'm satisfied. Furthest thing from. I just think to many Bills fans are looking for someone to blame, instead of looking at the future. Buddy bought a shack, in a million dollar neighborhood. He handed Whaley a nice house that needs trim work. In three years. I might say you're expectations for someone to turn Dick's roster unreasonable.

When he showed up we needed :

3 line backers

2 QB

3 D lineman

Many recivers

Tackles left & right

2DB's

TE

Man, I think people foget where we were four years ago.

Edited October 24, 2013 by JaxBills

[BillnutinHouston]

If you remember, Brandon effectively took over the team and made himself the GM.

 

There is not the slightest bit of evidence available to support this statement. Brandon took over the President's title when it was handed to him by Ralph, but never once did Brandon even remotely imply that he was directly managing the on-field product as a GM would.

Edited October 24, 2013 by BillnutinHouston

[NoSaint]

I'm not saying I'm satisfied. Furthest thing from. I just think to many Bills fans are looking for someone to blame, instead of looking at the future. Buddy bought a shack, in a million dollar neighborhood. He handed Whaley a nice house that needs trim work. In three years. I might say you're expectations for someone to turn Dick's roster unreasonable.

When he showed up we needed :

3 line backers

2 QB

3 D lineman

Many recivers

Tackles left & right

2DB's

TE

Man, I think people foget where we were four years ago.

 

and unfortunately the DC issues (which im not excusing him from being a part of) made it that much harder as we kept flip flopping.

[BillsBytheBay]

I have a question, I don't know the answer to.

 

Who picks the coordinators? I was under the impression the head coach does. But it seems to be the opinion here that the GM does.

 

I do agree Chan was poor as HC, but nobody else was taking the job.

Edited October 24, 2013 by JaxBills

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

I give Buddy a lot of credit. In the 3 seasons before becoming GM, Buffalo was 20-28 under HC Dick Jauron and GM's Levy and Brandon. After Buddy's ascendance to GM, the Bills managed to get worse, going 16-32.

 

You really can't make up this level of ineptitude. Not to mention they had to fire the HC he hired.

 

I love when people quote the record when the talent level obviously went up under Buddy. Chan was the best OC we had in a long time, and his biggest failing was giving the DC job to Edwards and then Wanny.

 

Silly posts like this is why you're on my ignore list.

 

 

Buddy ? . . . . are you kidding me . . . no way was this his draft -- no way he picks Alonzo or Duke Williams -- this was Whaley's draft from pick 1 through 7 + all the UDFA's --- if you believe anything else you are crazy ---

 

Character was a Chan thing. The minute he was gone, they went after great players even with a little trouble in the player's past.

Edited October 24, 2013 by BEAST MODE BABY!