Hot Route Question for Xs and Os Gurus

[Chilly]

One thing Buffalo Rumblings was talking about is the hot routes Manuel reading before the snap being 1x1 throws to the outside. This drove me crazy all game - they kept trying these down the field throws on the outside.

 

The whole game, the middle of the field was open because the Jets were blitzing linebackers and leaving holes in the middle. In fact, on a lot of the plays that Manuel throws long, we had guys wide open over the middle of the field.

 

Was this a case of Manuel checking to the hot route too fast, or a case of the offense having poorly designed hot routes not taking advantage of the middle of the field?

 

I would have thought at some point Hackett would have changed it up to having the hot route be right over the middle of the field, but every play they missed seemed to have open space there with the Bills trying to throw a ball deep.

[Pirate Angel]

for some reason our Coaching staff has a man crush on TJ Graham...They keep trying to get him involved and force things to him. The problem with this is that he is bad a t football. Wasn't that good in college, hasnt done anythign on special teams, invisible in the preseason, and somehow has become our #2 wide out. He must have naked pictures of someones wife or his holding their children for ransom.

[uncle flap]

The overarching problem was a combination of the o line getting eaten alive, and as a result, EJ having happy feet even when the protection held up. That led to EJ making hurried decisions.

 

I don't think EJ has an inherent accuracy problem, he just couldn't get his feet set and step into his throws.

 

I also don't think the hot reads were a big problem in a vacuum, but since the o line played poorly, EJ wasn't able to execute.

 

That said, the Jets were giving the Bills quick hitters on most first and second downs with the DBs giving the WRs a healthy cushion. For all the talk about "packaged plays," EJ and the WRs should have realized they could have hit those hitches or slants until the D was forced to adjust. EJ needs to make that call at the line, or Hackett needs to anticipate that and bring it EJ's attention from the booth.

 

So, yeah, I'd say it was due to EJ being impatient, but I wouldn't totally blame him since the line played so poorly.

[Big Turk]

Sometimes hot routes can be 9's(go's), but a lot of teams use the quick slants as hot routes, or quick throw to the TE...

 

Yes, my concern is that Hackett is relying too heavily on what his gameplan is coming in and what "should" work based on film study but not reacting to what actually IS happening as a poster stated above...middle of field wide open and they keep trying to hit go routes instead of running quick slants to a wide open area

[Coach Tuesday]

The overarching problem was a combination of the o line getting eaten alive, and as a result, EJ having happy feet even when the protection held up. That led to EJ making hurried decisions.

 

I don't think EJ has an inherent accuracy problem, he just couldn't get his feet set and step into his throws.

 

I also don't think the hot reads were a big problem in a vacuum, but since the o line played poorly, EJ wasn't able to execute.

 

That said, the Jets were giving the Bills quick hitters on most first and second downs with the DBs giving the WRs a healthy cushion. For all the talk about "packaged plays," EJ and the WRs should have realized they could have hit those hitches or slants until the D was forced to adjust. EJ needs to make that call at the line, or Hackett needs to anticipate that and bring it EJ's attention from the booth.

 

So, yeah, I'd say it was due to EJ being impatient, but I wouldn't totally blame him since the line played so poorly.

 

Disagree.

 

It was clear to me from that game that EJ was being coached to throw the sideline streak every time the Jets went into "cover zero" or one deep safety. I mean he did it every single time. It must've been coaching, and it was bad coaching, because the middle was wide open.

[NoSaint]

Sometimes hot routes can be 9's(go's), but a lot of teams use the quick slants as hot routes, or quick throw to the TE...

 

Yes, my concern is that Hackett is relying too heavily on what his gameplan is coming in and what "should" work based on film study but not reacting to what actually IS happening as a poster stated above...middle of field wide open and they keep trying to hit go routes instead of running quick slants to a wide open area

 

I hope part of the issue is trying to keep things simple and as the young guys grow you see more game day creativity instead of sticking to the film room plans.

 

 

 

Disagree.

 

It was clear to me from that game that EJ was being coached to throw the sideline streak every time the Jets went into "cover zero" or one deep safety. I mean he did it every single time. It must've been coaching, and it was bad coaching, because the middle was wide open.

 

Going to the deep sideline on cover zero is text book, but it's gotta be executed. If we hit 2 of those for long gainers, they look genius and get posts crediting for opening it up for the rookie and getting him speed outside.

 

But as I said last post, sometimes you have to get away from the standard rules of thumb and get creative and whether it's the young OC, or an OC protecting his qb (which I think is the case with the misses to the sideline - be safe and throw wide, but going too wide).... We are sticking to the real standard truths still. Curious if with 3 weeks left in the season we see more adjustments, and outside the box reads. Right now there's a lot of 101 level stuff but hopefully we graduated into higher level classes.

Edited September 28, 2013 by NoSaint

[Big Turk]

 

 

Disagree.

 

It was clear to me from that game that EJ was being coached to throw the sideline streak every time the Jets went into "cover zero" or one deep safety. I mean he did it every single time. It must've been coaching, and it was bad coaching, because the middle was wide open.

 

Especially when those quick slants early in the game could have turned into sluggo's(slant and go's) later on as the DBs got over aggressive on trying to get the INT on the slants, leaving a guy four or five yards in the clear wide open

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

I think the best ball manuel throws is over the middle. I don't like to graham at all either. That is all

[NoSaint]

 

 

Especially when those quick slants early in the game could have turned into sluggo's(slant and go's) later on as the DBs got over aggressive on trying to get the INT on the slants, leaving a guy four or five yards in the clear wide open

 

Agreed.

[Big Turk]

Or why not throw a post down the middle since no safety is back there? All he has to do is make sure its out far enough in front and its either a catch or incompletion...at least that way it can't be thrown out of bounds...

[NoSaint]

Or why not throw a post down the middle since no safety is back there? All he has to do is make sure its out far enough in front and its either a catch or incompletion...at least that way it can't be thrown out of bounds...

 

It's got to be a situation with real inexperienced receivers and a rookie qb that hackets protecting them with limited routes, reads, and adjustments.

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

Or why not throw a post down the middle since no safety is back there? All he has to do is make sure its out far enough in front and its either a catch or incompletion...at least that way it can't be thrown out of bounds...

Because Nate hasn't gotton to the posts, screens,and reverses chapter in his playcalling for dummies book yet...

[NoSaint]

 

Because Nate hasn't gotton to the posts, screens,and reverses chapter in his playcalling for dummies book yet...

 

The funny thing is some folks likely think he genuinely doesn't understand the basics of offense despite likely being able to talk circles around any of us by the time he was ten.

 

Whether he will implement and execute them excellently in relation to our on field talent is a different debate and a hard one to really get too deep into in September

[Big Turk]

 

 

The funny thing is some folks likely think he genuinely doesn't understand the basics of offense despite likely being able to talk circles around any of us by the time he was ten.

 

Whether he will implement and execute them excellently in relation to our on field talent is a different debate and a hard one to really get too deep into in September

 

He has all the knowledge but that's not enough. The implementation of that knowledge to combat what the defense is doing is the key to success or failure...

 

Having knowledge of what's going on but choosing the wrong times/situations to use it will result in failure as well...

 

Edited September 28, 2013 by matter2003

[boyst]

I'd like to add on here. But everyone has it covered. EJ is still very raw in his game. There has never been doubt there.

[3rdand12]

The funny thing is some folks likely think he genuinely doesn't understand the basics of offense despite likely being able to talk circles around any of us by the time he was ten.

 

Whether he will implement and execute them excellently in relation to our on field talent is a different debate and a hard one to really get too deep into in September

every bit of this . One of your more better reasonings Sir. Lets go with this folks.

and Thank you.

[Chilly]

That said, the Jets were giving the Bills quick hitters on most first and second downs with the DBs giving the WRs a healthy cushion. For all the talk about "packaged plays," EJ and the WRs should have realized they could have hit those hitches or slants until the D was forced to adjust. EJ needs to make that call at the line, or Hackett needs to anticipate that and bring it EJ's attention from the booth.

 

This is exactly what I was seeing and referring to. Is that EJ's responsibility to notice / change or Hackett's?

[Captain Hindsight]

I blame Chris Kelsey

[Rockinon]

The overarching problem was a combination of the o line getting eaten alive, and as a result, EJ having happy feet even when the protection held up. That led to EJ making hurried decisions.

 

I don't think EJ has an inherent accuracy problem, he just couldn't get his feet set and step into his throws.

 

I also don't think the hot reads were a big problem in a vacuum, but since the o line played poorly, EJ wasn't able to execute.

 

That said, the Jets were giving the Bills quick hitters on most first and second downs with the DBs giving the WRs a healthy cushion. For all the talk about "packaged plays," EJ and the WRs should have realized they could have hit those hitches or slants until the D was forced to adjust. EJ needs to make that call at the line, or Hackett needs to anticipate that and bring it EJ's attention from the booth.

 

So, yeah, I'd say it was due to EJ being impatient, but I wouldn't totally blame him since the line played so poorly.

Good eye. I think also EJ was focusing too much on the hot read when there were some throws underneath the coverage. I also kind of think it is odd that screens have not been used more. Mostly though I am convinced that what we are seeing is simply the growing pains of a rookie QB.

 

I also think EJ after reviewing film will figure it out. Hopefully by tomorrow.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Rockinon

[uncle flap]

Disagree.

 

It was clear to me from that game that EJ was being coached to throw the sideline streak every time the Jets went into "cover zero" or one deep safety. I mean he did it every single time. It must've been coaching, and it was bad coaching, because the middle was wide open.

 

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I said as much, but maybe I wasn't clear.

 

I agree that EJ was told to look to the go route automatically when facing a single high or cover zero coverage.

 

However there were two problems with that, even tho it is the "textbook" approach:

 

1. EJ can't make that throw under pressure (real or perceived). Whether or not the pressure actually gets there, the d line was coming so fast and so often that EJ wasn't getting set, and throwing wildly off his back foot because he felt rushed.

 

2. Hackett, and by extension EJ, didn't adjust to what the D was giving them. This is doubly worse when Hackett doesn't consider that EJ is less likely to step into a deeper throw because he looks rattled back there from all the pressure.

 

You're right that the ultimate is culprit is coaching, but coaching became an issue because of the poor line play, which caused EJ to hurry his throws.

 

I haven't re-watched the game because it was so pitiful overall, but I seem to recall later in the game when EJ was throwing over the middle more, he still was hurrying his throws and was still inaccurate. If they did indeed adjust, it was too late, as EJ was already too rattled from having his protection blown up all game.

 

Good coaching would've provided a variety of hot reads in different situations- including the screens and hitches that we are all clamoring for- early in the game, and perhaps EJ could've gotten into a rhythm, instead of putting all the pressure on him with a 3rd and long after predictable runs for basically nothing on 1st and 2nd down.

 

Yes, my concern is that Hackett is relying too heavily on what his gameplan is coming in and what "should" work based on film study but not reacting to what actually IS happening as a poster stated above...middle of field wide open and they keep trying to hit go routes instead of running quick slants to a wide open area

 

Yeah, those are my thoughts exactly from another thread:

Posted by uncle flap on 24 September 2013 - 06:12 PM in The Stadium Wall

There are plenty of good points made here in defense of Hackett, but I don't understand how - especially from his view in the skybox - that he was unable or unwilling to take what the Jets D was giving him.

 

It made me wonder if Hackett is stubborn and determined to win his way, and not adjusting to what was open on the field.

 

Most first and second downs, a hitch or bubble screen was open. Can EJ not make that throw? Is he not allowed to audible to that? I don't get that, and was screaming at the TV for EJ to just take a 4 yard or so completion when the corner was playing 8-10 yards off the line.

 

There was a serious lack of curls/comeback routes and back shoulder throws. Even tight coverage can be beat by changing up routes on similar looking plays.

 

As mentioned, screens and draws sprinkled in could've helped the o line and perhaps neutralized the d line.

 

I'm far from giving up on Hackett three weeks in to his first season, but I have to admit I was somewhat discouraged by the lack of adjustments. Let's hope he learns from this and perhaps becomes more comfortable making adjustments on the fly. Plenty of good coaches come into games with two distinct game plans- even if Plan A is working early, the defense may adjust at half or whatever, and you better have a competent Plan B. This concept seemed apparently lost on Hackett last Sunday.

 

This is exactly what I was seeing and referring to. Is that EJ's responsibility to notice / change or Hackett's?

 

I think it ultimately falls on Hackett. He has to either tell EJ what to do, or allow him the freedom to audible to what the D gives him. If EJ does have the authority, but is making the wrong call, or failing to adjust, then Hackett has to make sure he is calling plays to help EJ out. He didn't seem to be doing so, or I suspect he might've but it was too late in the game to make a difference.

 

Also, as mentioned above, it could be that Hackett is intent on "dictating" to the D, and might feel that adjusting is some sort of admission of defeat. I applaud the moxie, if that's the case, but I wish he'd realize when changes are needed.

 

I hope part of the issue is trying to keep things simple and as the young guys grow you see more game day creativity instead of sticking to the film room plans.

 

 

 

Going to the deep sideline on cover zero is text book, but it's gotta be executed. If we hit 2 of those for long gainers, they look genius and get posts crediting for opening it up for the rookie and getting him speed outside.

 

But as I said last post, sometimes you have to get away from the standard rules of thumb and get creative and whether it's the young OC, or an OC protecting his qb (which I think is the case with the misses to the sideline - be safe and throw wide, but going too wide).... We are sticking to the real standard truths still. Curious if with 3 weeks left in the season we see more adjustments, and outside the box reads. Right now there's a lot of 101 level stuff but hopefully we graduated into higher level classes.

 

Exactly. Right on, as usual.

Edited September 28, 2013 by uncle flap