Aug 9 Training Camp Notes

[uncle flap]

I didn't bother taking many mental notes since I figured Astro, Mike, or mrags would've had this covered, but since I don't see a thread about last night's practice, I thought I'd share a few thoughts and observations.

 

Holy hell the offense moves at an astonishing clip. There were times when the QB was under center ready for the snap in 8 seconds. I'd say they averaged about 13 seconds between snaps in 11-on-11s.

 

The left side of the oline seems to be a big problem. Glenn wasn't that bad but he was getting no help from the guard spot. That isn't to say Glenn was great, but judging by last night's performance, he seems to have regressed from his impressive start last year. Let's hope this isn't a Tyler Myers 2.0 situation.

 

I was hoping to see a lot more out of Da'Rick Rogers. That isn't to say I was disappointed exactly, I'd just been wishing there was a young Randy Moss flying under the radar. He looked pretty good overall; He made a sick one handed grab, turned the corner, and extended the ball to the pylon for a TD to close out the Red Zone drills. He also shows pretty good body control for his size.

 

Marquise Goodwin is INSANELY fast. Lots of speedy guys out there, but Goodwin and Spiller just seem to get to that next gear that much quicker. And it's not just straight line speed. Obviously we know about Spiller, but Goodwin seemed just as fast, if not faster, while cutting/ getting in and out of breaks/ and in full fledged stops and starts in another direction.

 

Tuel was rather inconsistent, but still makes enough good plays to earn a spot on the roster. I think they'll keep 3 QBs rather than try to stash him on the PS.

 

Manuel faced a good amount of pressure. I noticed him staring down receivers quite a bit. It didn't seem to negatively affect him that much, as there was only one play that I recall where the pass was so telegraphed so that the safety could cheat enough that EJ threw into double coverage. Despite all that, he still looked the part of an NFL QB, not like a rookie trying to make the team.

 

Now on to the Defense:

 

Mario will be fine. He was limited, but when he was participating, the guy was a beast. Looks 100% to me. Looks very fast and showcased plenty of strength in both team and individual drills.

 

Hughes looked pretty good too. Perhaps the change of scenery has invigorated him, or perhaps Mathis and Freeney cast such a big shadow in Indy that Hughes didn't get a proper opportunity to shine. We'll find out soon enough.

 

Alonso was very strong and fast. Like Manuel, he doesn't look out of place with the ones.

 

Aaron Williams might've been the most enthusiastic player out there. Constantly running his mouth, and celebrating with the D, whether or not he was with the unit making the play. He and Da'Rick jawed for a bit after Rogers caught a long TD on Butler (I think). Rogers may have pushed off- I couldn't tell from my angle - but it looked like Butler (or whoever) said something to Rogers in the endzone and Rogers turned to him and looked to have some words of his own. At that point AW, who was standing behind the endzone, jumps in and he and Rogers are nearly face mask to face mask. Williams and Rogers were jawing again after Rogers made a catch out of bounds in 11-on-11s, but it seemed to be good natured as I had a better view of that instance. But back to football, Aaron Williams has been reborn at safety, and it seems to be a natural transition.

 

Gilmore is still excellent. Still very hands-on. At least two no calls could easily have been called as holding or illegal contact. Very borderline, and perhaps he should make a point of not pushing the envelope there. In a league emphasizing passing, I wonder how often he'll get the benefit of the doubt on those close calls.

 

Plenty of blitzes overall, but even more "fake" blitzes. It's said the "illusion" of pressure can be just as problematic as actual pressure, and I think Pettine subscribes to this theory. The D showed blitz from a variety of angles on nearly every play, but they didn't actually blitz as often as they threatened to. Still, it creates confusion for the offense, especially the offensive line.

 

Nickel Robey made a few plays, and I think he makes the team. They had him working with the special teams as well.

 

Speaking of special teams:

 

Lindell banked one in during the two minute drill as time was expiring. I didn't pay close attention to the kicker drills, so I don't know who "won," but Hopkins has a live leg.

 

Powell looked very, very good. Looks much more consistent than I remember from last year.

 

Easley looks like a solid KR. But Goodwin honestly looks like he can take every one to the house. Don't be surprised if he does so Sunday.

 

Any ?s, lay em on me!

Edited August 10, 2013 by uncle flap

[G-Daddy]

Let's go Buffalo! Looking forward to live action. Tks for the report.

[Matt in KC]

Fantastic. Thanks so much for posting. I needed my fix.

 

Any D-line obserations? Are they stunting and creating chaos as much as the (real or imagined) blitzers? I've heard little about Branch for instance, but am excited to see him play. Do we look vulnerable to runs up the middle?

[Beerball]

Thanks flappy!

[KeisterHollow]

I think Buffalo is going to be competitive this year - and, if we win enough early, I think we could make a push for a wild-card/playoff spot, because I see this team getting better every week. One thing comes to mind when I read these practice recaps: I think next year, come draft day, we're going after CB, OG, and TE. Maybe LB. But, my point here is I think we totally scored on the WR corps this year. In fact, we went from having one legitimate WR to having almost too many decent WR's to keep them all! We'll be cutting a good one or two this year. Even though we're young, I see a team that is stacked in a lot of places now (except OG, CB, and TE / LB). That's why I'm so excited this year. To me, this is the beginning of a run. We're going to be in it for the next 4 or 5 years - or more. The moment is now.

[uncle flap]

Fantastic. Thanks so much for posting. I needed my fix.

 

Any D-line obserations? Are they stunting and creating chaos as much as the (real or imagined) blitzers? I've heard little about Branch for instance, but am excited to see him play. Do we look vulnerable to runs up the middle?

 

Overall, both the first and second team D lines were pretty good at clogging the middle against the run. There were only a couple big runs, most were a yard or two and a cloud of dust. Spiller had a 25+ yd TD after bouncing one outside on what looked to be a designed run up the middle. I think it was Fred who had another big gainer after he side stepped an unblocked blitzing CB who had him in his sights 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

 

I didn't pay too much attention to the d line play as I was mostly watching the ball, but there was plenty of pre-snap shifting causing the QBs to call out protections. Even when doing so, the offense still would snap the ball with around 25 left on the play clock. Tough to tell how well the d line as a whole was playing when there seemed to be constant pressure from the the RE and/or ROLB. Didn't really notice Branch good or bad, but wasn't really looking out for him either.

Edited August 10, 2013 by uncle flap

[RuntheDamnBall]

I am still astonished that we have a defensive back named Nickel Robey.

[Matt in KC]

Overall, both the first and second team D lines were pretty good at clogging the middle against the run. There were only a couple big runs, most were a yard or two and a cloud of dust. Spiller had a 25+ yd TD after bouncing one outside on what looked to be a designed run up the middle. I think it was Fred who had another big gainer after he side stepped an unblocked blitzing CB who had him in his sights 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

 

I didn't pay too much attention to the d line play as I was mostly watching the ball, but there was plenty of pre-snap shifting causing the QBs to call out protections. Even when doing so, the offense still would snap the ball with around 25 left on the play clock. Tough to tell how well the d line was playing when there seemed to be constant pressure from the the RE and/or ROLB. Didn't really notice Branch good or bad, but wasn't really looking out for him either.

Thanks so much.

 

I can't wait to watch this D! And the offense actually having time to spare is a nice change. I hope to see the Pats D panting and doubling over in the second half of the opener.

 

I live in KC now, so today's game will be my first peek this year.

[bladiebla]

I am still astonished that we have a defensive back named Nickel Robey.

 

Too bad Reggie Corner didnt pan out...

[RuntheDamnBall]

Too bad Reggie Corner didnt pan out...

He would form part of a great defensive backfield with Dimeneck Sayftey.

[ko12010]

I think Buffalo is going to be competitive this year - and, if we win enough early, I think we could make a push for a wild-card/playoff spot, because I see this team getting better every week. One thing comes to mind when I read these practice recaps: I think next year, come draft day, we're going after CB, OG, and TE. Maybe LB. But, my point here is I think we totally scored on the WR corps this year. In fact, we went from having one legitimate WR to having almost too many decent WR's to keep them all! We'll be cutting a good one or two this year. Even though we're young, I see a team that is stacked in a lot of places now (except OG, CB, and TE / LB). That's why I'm so excited this year. To me, this is the beginning of a run. We're going to be in it for the next 4 or 5 years - or more. The moment is now.

Not trying to be wildly optimistic or anything like that, but I just want to make the point that teams CAN go from no playoffs to Super Bowl contenders in one year if things had been building well and possibly a new coaching staff comes in that gets it. Maybe a new QB, different coordinators. Obviously, all these things can add up to a worse or similar season, but it is possible. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Rams go from 3-13 to 13-3 the year they won the Super Bowl against the Titans? Again, I fully understand everything would have to come together for the Bills to have something like that happen, but the possibility is there. Also, if the Bills offense moves as quickly as it appears, we could take teams by surprise this season until they learn how to adjust to it, similar to when the wildcat was introduced and also the read option. We all thought the D was going to be solid last season, and the talent appears to be much improved, so if Pettine is the real deal, this could actually happen.

[Astrobot]

I am SO grateful you did this. I was down and out with asthmatic symptoms. You rocked those Comments! Merci!

--Astro

[uncle flap]

I am SO grateful you did this. I was down and out with asthmatic symptoms. You rocked those Comments! Merci!

--Astro

 

Sorry to hear that, it was a beautiful night. You and all who expressed thanks are very welcome!

[Big C]

There are plenty of examples supporting the last-place-to-contender optimism. Most recently, San Francisco and Seattle. I never thought Minnesota or Indy were legit contenders, but they were obviously playoff teams last year. I think we have the talent this year and it's going to come down to coaching. EJ will make rookie mistakes, but if he gets the support from the run game and defense, we'll be a winner again.

 

Well, actually it also looks like it'll come down to staying healthy. Depth isn't great right now.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Big C

[ko12010]

There are plenty of examples supporting the last-place-to-contender optimism. Most recently, San Francisco and Seattle. I never thought Minnesota or Indy were legit contenders, but they were obviously playoff teams last year. I think we have the talent this year and it's going to come down to coaching. EJ will make rookie mistakes, but if he gets the support from the run game and defense, we'll be a winner again.

 

Well, actually it also looks like it'll come down to staying healthy. Depth isn't great right now.

I really think the perfect example is Seattle. If EJ just 'gets it' really quickly like Russel Wilson did, and gets similar support from the D and run game, there's no reason that the Bills can't do something similar. Obviously, we've been down in the dumps for so, so long it's hard to imagine anything good happening to us, haha, but maybe it will. One can only hope. It would be so cool for EJ to show veteran poise the majority of the time, FJ an CJ to run wild, and the D to manhandle opponents and create tons of pressure and turnovers. And, of course, stack up the W's.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Great stuff Uncle Flap!

 

Thanks for the awesome report!

 

:thumbsup:

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

Flap, my good friend, many thanks for the excellent run down. YE OLE's anticipation for tomorrow's brouhaha is growing.

[Best Player Available]

I didn't bother taking many mental notes since I figured Astro, Mike, or mrags would've had this covered, but since I don't see a thread about last night's practice, I thought I'd share a few thoughts and observations.

 

Holy hell the offense moves at an astonishing clip. There were times when the QB was under center ready for the snap in 8 seconds. I'd say they averaged about 13 seconds between snaps in 11-on-11s.

 

The left side of the oline seems to be a big problem. Glenn wasn't that bad but he was getting no help from the guard spot. That isn't to say Glenn was great, but judging by last night's performance, he seems to have regressed from his impressive start last year. Let's hope this isn't a Tyler Myers 2.0 situation.

 

I was hoping to see a lot more out of Da'Rick Rogers. That isn't to say I was disappointed exactly, I'd just been wishing there was a young Randy Moss flying under the radar. He looked pretty good overall; He made a sick one handed grab, turned the corner, and extended the ball to the pylon for a TD to close out the Red Zone drills. He also shows pretty good body control for his size.

 

Marquise Goodwin is INSANELY fast. Lots of speedy guys out there, but Goodwin and Spiller just seem to get to that next gear that much quicker. And it's not just straight line speed. Obviously we know about Spiller, but Goodwin seemed just as fast, if not faster, while cutting/ getting in and out of breaks/ and in full fledged stops and starts in another direction.

 

Tuel was rather inconsistent, but still makes enough good plays to earn a spot on the roster. I think they'll keep 3 QBs rather than try to stash him on the PS.

 

Manuel faced a good amount of pressure. I noticed him staring down receivers quite a bit. It didn't seem to negatively affect him that much, as there was only one play that I recall where the pass was so telegraphed so that the safety could cheat enough that EJ threw into double coverage. Despite all that, he still looked the part of an NFL QB, not like a rookie trying to make the team.

 

Now on to the Defense:

 

Mario will be fine. He was limited, but when he was participating, the guy was a beast. Looks 100% to me. Looks very fast and showcased plenty of strength in both team and individual drills.

 

Hughes looked pretty good too. Perhaps the change of scenery has invigorated him, or perhaps Mathis and Freeney cast such a big shadow in Indy that Hughes didn't get a proper opportunity to shine. We'll find out soon enough.

 

Alonso was very strong and fast. Like Manuel, he doesn't look out of place with the ones.

 

Aaron Williams might've been the most enthusiastic player out there. Constantly running his mouth, and celebrating with the D, whether or not he was with the unit making the play. He and Da'Rick jawed for a bit after Rogers caught a long TD on Butler (I think). Rogers may have pushed off- I couldn't tell from my angle - but it looked like Butler (or whoever) said something to Rogers in the endzone and Rogers turned to him and looked to have some words of his own. At that point AW, who was standing behind the endzone, jumps in and he and Rogers are nearly face mask to face mask. Williams and Rogers were jawing again after Rogers made a catch out of bounds in 11-on-11s, but it seemed to be good natured as I had a better view of that instance. But back to football, Aaron Williams has been reborn at safety, and it seems to be a natural transition.

 

Gilmore is still excellent. Still very hands-on. At least two no calls could easily have been called as holding or illegal contact. Very borderline, and perhaps he should make a point of not pushing the envelope there. In a league emphasizing passing, I wonder how often he'll get the benefit of the doubt on those close calls.

 

Plenty of blitzes overall, but even more "fake" blitzes. It's said the "illusion" of pressure can be just as problematic as actual pressure, and I think Pettine subscribes to this theory. The D showed blitz from a variety of angles on nearly every play, but they didn't actually blitz as often as they threatened to. Still, it creates confusion for the offense, especially the offensive line.

 

Nickel Robey made a few plays, and I think he makes the team. They had him working with the special teams as well.

 

Speaking of special teams:

 

Lindell banked one in during the two minute drill as time was expiring. I didn't pay close attention to the kicker drills, so I don't know who "won," but Hopkins has a live leg.

 

Powell looked very, very good. Looks much more consistent than I remember from last year.

 

Easley looks like a solid KR. But Goodwin honestly looks like he can take every one to the house. Don't be surprised if he does so Sunday.

 

Any ?s, lay em on me!

Interesting comment on the hurry up speed of the offense! Were NFL refs moving and spotting the ball? I read somewhere that Chip Kelly has met with NFL refs in regards to their moving the ball to the line of scrimmage to suit his pace. The NFL has commented something to the effect of the pace of a hurry up game is determined by the refs. If it's to be believed at face value then unless the previous play was a no gain, the ball spotted, it's doubtful any team will rattle of plays in 8 second intervals. One would assume Marrone has or will have the same discussions with NFL refs regarding their accommodating a very fast paced offense.

 

Kelly's Ducks average was somewhere around an offensive snap every 13 seconds. That is probably a possibility in the NFL today.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

It was fun reading the optimism in this thread. Thank you, Uncle Flap!

[uncle flap]

Interesting comment on the hurry up speed of the offense! Were NFL refs moving and spotting the ball? I read somewhere that Chip Kelly has met with NFL refs in regards to their moving the ball to the line of scrimmage to suit his pace. The NFL has commented something to the effect of the pace of a hurry up game is determined by the refs. If it's to be believed at face value then unless the previous play was a no gain, the ball spotted, it's doubtful any team will rattle of plays in 8 second intervals. One would assume Marrone has or will have the same discussions with NFL refs regarding their accommodating a very fast paced offense.

 

Kelly's Ducks average was somewhere around an offensive snap every 13 seconds. That is probably a possibility in the NFL today.

 

Yes they had refs spotting the ball. 11 seconds was the fastest snap I timed, but they were routinely lined up at around 8-10 seconds, and snapping the ball at 13-15 seconds.

 

Regarding the refs dictating the pace, I think that's just an acknowledgement that they have the ultimate control. What I saw at practice, and what I'm sure you've seen in real games in hurry up situations, is that the refs follow the lead of the players. If and when the players run to the line, the ref better make damn sure he's running, too. There would be and has been outrage when refs are slow to spot the ball.

 

8 seconds seems fast, but it only takes about 2-3 seconds to spot a ball regardless of where it's at on the field. They weren't snapping the ball at 8 seconds, although if it was a spike to kill the clock, they certainly could've.

 

I should've been more clear: There were more than a few times where the offense was maybe not 100% set at 8 seconds, but at the line and could have been set in an instant.

 

Anyway, I just used that example to show how quickly the offense was getting to the line. What's more important and also more indicative of the pace, is that they would string together at least 4-5 plays in a row, snapping the ball with at least 25 seconds left on the play clock each time.

Edited August 10, 2013 by uncle flap