ExiledInIllinois Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) here's the ticket: eat what you grow or kill (or some nice farmer kills or grows). stay away from anything that touches a factory or food "scientist". our ancestors were rarely fat and that's what they often did. John Adams sure looks "chubby" in JA's avatar. ?? Isn't obesity a sign of affluence too? A ripe 90 when he died... Life expectancy number above today's. Surely way outlived the average male of 1826... Edited June 29, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 John Adams sure looks "chubby" in JA's avatar. ?? Isn't obesity a sign of affluence too? A ripe 90 when he died... Life expectancy number above today's. Surely way outlived the average male of 1826... he was clearly an outlier. few lived til 90 then,,,few (but more) still do. when looking at plaster busts of the ancients (romans, greeks) in museums, their generally short lives always surprise me. my bet is that longevity in that age correlated with prosperity. it was the opposite of what we now see. the prosperous were fat and the less prosperous proportionally more thin or malnourished. when the norm was intermittent malnutrition and back breaking work, excess food and servants were survival advantages. obesity is generally and correctly correlated with poor health now (bmi, waist circumference) perhaps it was different when folks ate an excess of grain, eggs, fish and meat rather than fcs, mcdonalds and fried oreos. just my initial reactions to the question. possibly complete bs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 he was clearly an outlier. few lived til 90 then,,,few (but more) still do. when looking at plaster busts of the ancients (romans, greeks) in museums, their generally short lives always surprise me. my bet is that longevity in that age correlated with prosperity. it was the opposite of what we now see. the prosperous were fat and the less prosperous proportionally more thin or malnourished. when the norm was intermittent malnutrition and back breaking work, excess food and servants were survival advantages. obesity is generally and correctly correlated with poor health now (bmi, waist circumference) perhaps it was different when folks ate an excess of grain, eggs, fish and meat rather than fcs, mcdonalds and fried oreos. just my initial reactions to the question. possibly complete bs... They are seeing that trend in China today with urbanization... That is the excess of eggs, fish and meat. The fast food and fried Ores get all the attention. It is still eggs, eggs, fish, and meat. "A chicken in everybody's pot" was a goal trying to be attained not too long ago in our history. Well, guess what?... We are there and this is what it looks like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 They are seeing that trend in China today with urbanization... That is the excess of eggs, fish and meat. The fast food and fried Ores get all the attention. It is still eggs, eggs, fish, and meat. "A chicken in everybody's pot" was a goal trying to be attained not too long ago in our history. Well, guess what?... We are there and this is what it looks like! Urabanization brings the Oreos and processed food, not good poultry. The problem isn't the chicken. It's the chemicals. The best of the eating solutions that I've heard (hate to call it a diet even though that's the right word, not in the sense of "losing wight diet" but more in the sense of "here's what's good to eat diet") is the Paleo diet. AKA the Caveman diet. You eat no processed food and only those things that humans were eating evolutionarily, i.e., meat, veggies, fruits. No grains. No dairy. Besides losing weight, it's been shown to help in inflammation-related problems like allergies, sinus infections, skin infections like rosacea, and many other things. The test they propose is: try it for 30 days--with no cheating--and see how you feel. Then slowly reintroduce certain things. For me, I found that when I started back on dairy, I immediately developed sinus issues again...and they flare up if I eat dairy more than a couple days in a row. (I'm not an a-hole: I still eat cheese and ice cream sometimes!). When I reintroduced legumes (beans), I had no issues. My wife's rosacea went away for the first time in 15 years of trying everything...when she has wheat, it comes back in a flash. The 30 day thing was enlightening. The most accessible book on topic is by Rob Wolff. The Paleo Solution. He's also got a good podcast. Just because we're on foods and health, one of the most fun books I read on it is The Four Hour Body. Tim Ferris is a bit of an Internet legend at this point but he basically used his body as a science lab and tried everything (every exercise, drug, diet, sex technique) known to man and reports the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Urabanization brings the Oreos and processed food, not good poultry. The problem isn't the chicken. It's the chemicals. The best of the eating solutions that I've heard (hate to call it a diet even though that's the right word, not in the sense of "losing wight diet" but more in the sense of "here's what's good to eat diet") is the Paleo diet. AKA the Caveman diet. You eat no processed food and only those things that humans were eating evolutionarily, i.e., meat, veggies, fruits. No grains. No dairy. Besides losing weight, it's been shown to help in inflammation-related problems like allergies, sinus infections, skin infections like rosacea, and many other things. The test they propose is: try it for 30 days--with no cheating--and see how you feel. Then slowly reintroduce certain things. For me, I found that when I started back on dairy, I immediately developed sinus issues again...and they flare up if I eat dairy more than a couple days in a row. (I'm not an a-hole: I still eat cheese and ice cream sometimes!). When I reintroduced legumes (beans), I had no issues. My wife's rosacea went away for the first time in 15 years of trying everything...when she has wheat, it comes back in a flash. The 30 day thing was enlightening. The most accessible book on topic is by Rob Wolff. The Paleo Solution. He's also got a good podcast. Just because we're on foods and health, one of the most fun books I read on it is The Four Hour Body. Tim Ferris is a bit of an Internet legend at this point but he basically used his body as a science lab and tried everything (every exercise, drug, diet, sex technique) known to man and reports the results. Thanks JA... Gr8 post! The diet sounds like I should give it a go! I like the part about cheese and ice cream! SOMETIMES... ;-) I very much get what you are saying about will power. People get very defensive about that though. Change is huge in people's lives! A struggle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 My poison is carbs, especially processed snack foods. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) My poison is carbs, especially processed snack foods. PTR It is poison and it's everyone's poison. Who can eat one Dorito? One Pringle? The trick is not to buy them, ie, make it hard to get them. When that crap is in my house, like after we host a party, of course I eat it. One not bad substitute are nuts, and many these days have flavors (stay away from ingredients that you can't find on a tree or in a garden). There's no way not to want to eat chips and Ben and Jerry's when it's around if you're hungry. Give your will a break and leave it at the store but give your cravings something and make it nuts and all natural frozen fruit bars or something. Edited June 30, 2013 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) It is poison and it's everyone's poison. Who can eat one Dorito? One Pringle? The trick is not to buy them, ie, make it hard to get them. When that crap is in my house, like after we host a party, of course I eat it. One not bad substitute are nuts, and many these days have flavors (stay away from ingredients that you can't find on a tree or in a garden). There's no way not to want to eat chips and Ben and Jerry's when it's around if you're hungry. Give your will a break and leave it at the store but give your cravings something and make it nuts and all natural frozen fruit bars or something. I have been up all night... I am a bad, bad person... I had no will power and stopped in and grabbed a Maxwell Street Polish w/the works (kraut and onions/mustard)... Ooo so good... I am paying for it now w/guilt and this thread! :wallbash: Damn will power! Myself, not so much the snacks... I don't crave ice cream, chips... It is the soda. When I cut that out, I lose... I try to cut it back to a couple cans a day. And then of course the meat and potatoes! I just don't have any other vices... Don't smoke, don't really drink alcohol (maybe a couple every other month or so if that. Bad to to good cholesterol is a bit whacky... Bit, but not bad. I am a brat and steak guy! Edited June 30, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Meat and potatoes won't kill you. Chemicals will. Have a steak. Wash it down with water or seltzer mixed with a squirt of OJ. I eat red meat 1-2 times a week. The others chicken and fish, occasionally a homemade veggie burger. Enjoy your brat too, with kraut and mustard...skip the bread though. Edited June 30, 2013 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I have been up all night... I am a bad, bad person... I had no will power and stopped in and grabbed a Maxwell Street Polish w/the works (kraut and onions/mustard)... Ooo so good... I am paying for it now w/guilt and this thread! :wallbash: Damn will power! Myself, not so much the snacks... I don't crave ice cream, chips... It is the soda. When I cut that out, I lose... I try to cut it back to a couple cans a day. And then of course the meat and potatoes! I just don't have any other vices... Don't smoke, don't really drink alcohol (maybe a couple every other month or so if that. Bad to to good cholesterol is a bit whacky... Bit, but not bad. I am a brat and steak guy! We just stopped buying unhealthy snacks. No more soda, candy, cookies, Doritos, etc. now we have reduced fat wheat thins and triscuits. We we have fiber one bars. And we only drink flavored seltzer water (Polar or Schweppes). About once a month, I'll spoil my son with a big bag of his favorite Doritos (enchilada supreme) and we'll go to town on them. If we drink soda, we buy a single bottle for the day, instead of a 12 pack or a 2 liter. During the Christmas holiday season, we'll fill the candy dish with the green and red kisses and m&m candies, but that's only for a couple weeks. Bottom line for us, if it ain't in the fridge, cupboard or pantry ... We ain't eatin' or drinkin' it! It's all about moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Went grocery shopping last night (well, for me it was actually this morning, 2am after work). Checking the labels on the wheat bread, the cheap stuff, third ingredient, high fructose corn syrup and 22g of carbs. The more expensive, brown sugar and 12g of carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Went grocery shopping last night (well, for me it was actually this morning, 2am after work). Checking the labels on the wheat bread, the cheap stuff, third ingredient, high fructose corn syrup and 22g of carbs. The more expensive, brown sugar and 12g of carbs. I've been getting Arnold double fiber whole wheat bread. I don't count carbs, but it has 21g. I like it because it has 6g of fiber and 1.5g of fat per slice. In a slice, out a slice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 We just stopped buying unhealthy snacks. No more soda, candy, cookies, Doritos, etc. now we have reduced fat wheat thins and triscuits. We we have fiber one bars. And we only drink flavored seltzer water (Polar or Schweppes). About once a month, I'll spoil my son with a big bag of his favorite Doritos (enchilada supreme) and we'll go to town on them. If we drink soda, we buy a single bottle for the day, instead of a 12 pack or a 2 liter. During the Christmas holiday season, we'll fill the candy dish with the green and red kisses and m&m candies, but that's only for a couple weeks. Bottom line for us, if it ain't in the fridge, cupboard or pantry ... We ain't eatin' or drinkin' it! It's all about moderation. The good thing is that my wife and kids won't touch soda... LoL.. Save the Sh*t for this sucker w/no will power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 i have a few acquaintances in the grocery business. little secret they've told me and i've independently confirmed....shop the outside of the store. that's where the grown and killed stuff is. most of the stuff in the middle has been processed, amended or in some way worsened from it's original form. and for goodness sake, stay away from anything near the cash register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 i have a few acquaintances in the grocery business. little secret they've told me and i've independently confirmed....shop the outside of the store. I've known this for years. How is it a secret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I've known this for years. How is it a secret? guess not then. i think it's useful information. just passing it on. other people i've told have been unaware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) guess not then. i think it's useful information. just passing it on. other people i've told have been unaware. I was always under the impression that "the perimeter" was where all the expensive items were placed and to stay outta there because that is where the "rip offs" (marketed up items w/full service) were. One would go to the poor house eating from the Deli, Bakery, and Butcher. Yes, the ends and the cash register is where they place the impulse buys. So there in lies the rub. If you want good healthy food, you will pay a bunch for it. What happens when a person doesn't have a ton of money and needs to make that money stretch? Of course, economic sense dictates one shop the middle of the store for the processed (stays fresher longer too) items... Hence the downward spiral begins. Go processed and eat through or go fresh, full service, and not eat for two days until one gets more money. IMO, human nature would opt for going the more bang for your buck route and eating through. Hence, the center of the store thrives even know profits are less there. The money is in quantity of sales. Seems very much like a rigged game. Do the powers that be really want people healthy? It sure seems like they don't. It is like the guys fixing the roads. Do they want everybody running around in a Prius that gets 50 mph tearing up the roads while paying much less to fix said roads? Of course they will give lip service and say they do. "Save the planet" is like "get/eat healthy." Quite a problem to solve. Edited July 1, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Great post. You are the exception and that is part of the problem. "Most" overweight folks make minimal effort to change their lifestyle and 'insist' that there 'has' to be something wrong medically. You actually had a problem (and man....TSH over 200...you weren't messing around. Surprised you could walk across the room with that) and still decided to work 'harder.' Good for you! Amen. This is true. It is interesting that weight loss almost always plateaus for a variable amount of time around six months of any 'program.' For most folks, however, the weight will begin to trickle off with continued effort. You're also correct in terms of this being an individual thing. There are certainly folks genetically destined to be 'big.' The reality, however, is that every person has different 'rules' and they must adjust accordingly. There is a caloric balance for every person. It is amazingly difficult for a small percentage and amazingly easy for some as well. The rest are sort of in the middle....and lack the gumption to make a change. Indeed. Lots of work. Not honking my own horn here but I was getting a bit big about two years ago. Started running at 5AM daily. Have already completed two marathons and qualified for Boston for next year. It is a lot of !@#$ing work as you said. I've also changed my diet and have lost about 25 lbs. Point being....It would have been much easier to stay 30lbs overweight. For me, and I feel for most, it is a choice and not a 'disease.' Again....some folks seemed 'doomed' to be overweight but they are in the small minority. Good luck on the sub-8 min half! Speaking of addiction. Running is hard to stop once you start! I was a three-sport athlete in high school and a D-1 athlete in college. I've been in great shape, fitness-wise, but I've never been a "thin" guy. It's just not on me. I am not naturally thin. It's not an excuse, just a reason to work harder. I envy the guy who can do morning workouts. That's the next leg in my journey, I think--if only because getting it out of the way first thing is ALWAYS an amazing feeling. I just hate mornings! And qualifying for Boston!? That's no joke. Congrats, man. And yes, TWO EIGHTY !@#$ING TWO...my PCP told me this year during my annual physical that I was basically the poster boy for thyroid symptoms, and that he teaches his classes as much. Seriously, look at the loooooooooooooooong list of things that might indicate you have a thyroid problem (cold all the time, irritability, gravelly voice, loss of hair, constant (and I do mean constant) fatigue) I had them ALL. Edited July 1, 2013 by taC giB ehT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Read more: http://ideas.time.co.../#ixzz2XVKYIeKs The opinion is harshly delivered but the bottom line is hard to argue. Obesity continues to be a problem that plagues the US. Not sure if her tough love is better than the accept everyone approach. It's a mental illness and should be looked at and treated the same way anorexia and bulimia are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 It's a mental illness and should be looked at and treated the same way anorexia and bulimia are. I believe anorexia and bulimia are mental illnesses that result in poor physical condition/physical ailments. There may be mental illnesses that result in obesity; but obesity is a physical condition- not a mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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