JohnC Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 What I think he did and what he actually did can be two different things, no? Not only can they be different, they usually are different. The best way to get yourself out of the corner you put yourself in is to leave the corner you put yourself in. It is easier than you think. Being stubborn is not going to help you. Moving away from your ill-conceived position rather than firmly rationalizing it would be the smart way to go. Just trying to be helpful to a long time crony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Not only can they be different, they usually are different. The best way to get yourself out of the corner you put yourself in is to leave the corner you put yourself in. It is easier than you think. Being stubborn is not going to help you. Moving away from your ill-conceived position rather than firmly rationalizing it would be the smart way to go. Just trying to be helpful to a long time crony. Oh, the irony! Look, the civil case is a pimple on an elephant's ass in light of this this current incident. Had it been a singular event, the assumption would have been that it was just a drug dealer looking for cash. But it now potentially establishes a pattern with this kid. And the manner in which the vic in the current case was killed suggests a drug deal gone wrong. There may be no confession and the poster who I got if from was talking out of his ass. But stranger things have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) Oh, the irony! Look, the civil case is a pimple on an elephant's ass in light of this this current incident. Had it been a singular event, the assumption would have been that it was just a drug dealer looking for cash. But it now potentially establishes a pattern with this kid. And the manner in which the vic in the current case was killed suggests a drug deal gone wrong. There may be no confession and the poster who I got if from was talking out of his ass. But stranger things have happened. I guess two questions - 1) what about it makes it look drug deal gone bad as opposed to a variety of other situations? 2) "reportedly" has devolved into simply a random post, still no further sourced? Is this a top secret private conversation, or simply a random comment on a news article you can't place, or? Edited June 24, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I guess two questions - 1) what about it makes it look drug deal gone bad as opposed to a variety of other situations? Prior history mostly. 2) reportedly has devolved into simply a random post, still no further sourced? Is this a top secret private conversation, or simply a random comment on a news article you can't place, or? I believe I already said that the report of a confession couldn't be verified, but that I wouldn't rule out it being real. The upshot being that even without a criminal conviction or even a confession, AH could still be suspended if he loses the civil case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Oh, the irony! Look, the civil case is a pimple on an elephant's ass in light of this this current incident. Had it been a singular event, the assumption would have been that it was just a drug dealer looking for cash. But it now potentially establishes a pattern with this kid. And the manner in which the vic in the current case was killed suggests a drug deal gone wrong. There may be no confession and the poster who I got if from was talking out of his ass. But stranger things have happened. The strangest thing that can happen in this thread is you basing your claims on facts that are currently known rather than on wild speculations that you have created on your own. There are a lot of things going on that we on the outside don''t know. You have taken it to another level in reaching for the phantom facts from the nonexistent source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Prior history mostly. Are we talking that he has the failed drug tests? Or is there history I'm not aware of them screams "drug dealer hit man." The way you've justified it and framed your arguments it comes across (atleast to me) a little like you don't care about what's most likely but think it sounds cool. I can't say its not a drug deal gone bad but that has a lot of layers - I'd assume a gang would enjoy having a guy with 40m coming in the door to stay pretty clean, for instance, even if he still had gang ties.... But your making a jump to it both being a drug deal gone bad between he and someone he seemed to be well acquainted with, but also that he pulled the trigger. I'd be curious beyond just "history" why you think those are the logical jumps. Perhaps I've missed some springboards to those conclusions. I believe I already said that the report of a confession couldn't be verified, but that I wouldn't rule out it being real. The upshot being that even without a criminal conviction or even a confession, AH could still be suspended if he loses the civil case. I get that it couldn't be verified but I was getting at asking more about your source. You rolled in sounding pretty confident about it, but you keep dancing around details of where you got it. I am still curious where it came from. I don't expect you to produce a copy of the document to be used in court, simply an answer of where you heard it - a trusted poster on a board you read? A random comment on an article you read? Facebook? Or has it really boiled down to "can't prove there isn't one" instead of just saying where you got it and why you thought it credible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Prior history mostly. I believe I already said that the report of a confession couldn't be verified, but that I wouldn't rule out it being real. The upshot being that even without a criminal conviction or even a confession, AH could still be suspended if he loses the civil case. Regardless of the civil suit and regardless if he is not charged with a murder there is more than enough questionable behavior that would get him severely suspended. The charge of destroying evidence in a murder case will surely have Roger G, suspend him for a very long time. Don't expect AH to play at all this season. As it stands AH has bigger things to worry about beyond playing professional football this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 The strangest thing that can happen in this thread is you basing your claims on facts that are currently known rather than on wild speculations that you have created on your own. There are a lot of things going on that we on the outside don''t know. You have taken it to another level in reaching for the phantom facts from the nonexistent source. I already said it was a bad source. All that's left is to see what happens in the civil trial. Are we talking that he has the failed drug tests? Or is there history I'm not aware of them screams "drug dealer hit man." The way you've justified it and framed your arguments it comes across (atleast to me) a little like you don't care about what's most likely but think it sounds cool. I can't say its not a drug deal gone bad but that has a lot of layers - I'd assume a gang would enjoy having a guy with 40m coming in the door to stay pretty clean, for instance, even if he still had gang ties.... But your making a jump to it both being a drug deal gone bad between he and someone he seemed to be well acquainted with, but also that he pulled the trigger. I'd be curious beyond just "history" why you think those are the logical jumps. Perhaps I've missed some springboards to those conclusions. I never said AH pulled the trigger on the dead guy. And it's a gut feeling. What do you think happened? Have any opinions? I get that it couldn't be verified but I was getting at asking more about your source. You rolled in sounding pretty confident about it, but you keep dancing around details of where you got it. I am still curious where it came from. I don't expect you to produce a copy of the document to be used in court, simply an answer of where you heard it - a trusted poster on a board you read? A random comment on an article you read? Facebook? Or has it really boiled down to "can't prove there isn't one" instead of just saying where you got it and why you thought it credible? Again NS, I prefaced it with "reportedly." It most likely was a bad report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 AH isn't being sued for 'only' $100K. The complaint says the guy is requesting a sum of at least $100K in damages. This amount in the complaint qualifies the case for jurisdiction in a federal court. The stated amount is only a legal tactic to get the case in front of a federal judge. kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I already said it was a bad source. All that's left is to see what happens in the civil trial. I never said AH pulled the trigger on the dead guy. And it's a gut feeling. What do you think happened? Have any opinions? Again NS, I prefaced it with "reportedly." It most likely was a bad report. My opinions so far amount to 1) February could be damn near anything. I'm guessing if will be mighty difficult to prove anything 4 months later, unless someone did something incredibly stupid (or incredibly smart). security tapes etc... will all be gone, people will be incredibly skeptical of the wait and source. So far the only incredibly stupid things to come out are that the guy refused to cooperate initially, and the guys lawyer grossly screwed up his injury reports initially. Total wild card. 2) the murder has a lot up in the air still. Do I think AH was a solid part of the events of the evening? Probably. Do I think I know at all who pulled the trigger, what their motivations are, or really anything else? Nope. Not a clue. no idea why anyone would seriously say they do unless ive missed something. I don't even think its yet fair to say that AH did the majority of the "cleaning up" afterwards, though its likely fair to say he was well aware of the shooting and complicit in the coverup. I do think we are closing in on getting more information that will make the speculation start to matter instead of just pulling random ideas out of thin air though. 3) the nfl likely suspends him no matter what under the Big Ben - where there's smoke there's fire" theory. a good chance more seriously depending on what we have yet to learn. Otherwise, unless I've missed some facts, the rest is just taking wild stabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I already said it was a bad source. All that's left is to see what happens in the civil trial. I never said AH pulled the trigger on the dead guy. And it's a gut feeling. What do you think happened? Have any opinions? Again NS, I prefaced it with "reportedly." It most likely was a bad report. Let me see if I can help here... What NoSaint and others are asking, quite plainly, is where the report came from...it's not a complicated question...where did you read/see/here it? That answer would clear up a lot of confusion I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Let me see if I can help here... What NoSaint and others are asking, quite plainly, is where the report came from...it's not a complicated question...where did you read/see/here it? That answer would clear up a lot of confusion I believe It came from a poster on the Bills message board who usually has good info. I should have said "there's a rumor" instead of "reportedly" and next time I'll make sure I make that distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph W. Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It came from a poster on the Bills message board who usually has good info. I should have said "there's a rumor" instead of "reportedly" and next time I'll make sure I make that distinction. Was his name Doc by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Was his name Doc by any chance? He said the poster usually had good info, so I doubt it. Zing! Edited June 25, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 My opinions so far amount to 1) February could be damn near anything. I'm guessing if will be mighty difficult to prove anything 4 months later, unless someone did something incredibly stupid (or incredibly smart). security tapes etc... will all be gone, people will be incredibly skeptical of the wait and source. So far the only incredibly stupid things to come out are that the guy refused to cooperate initially, and the guys lawyer grossly screwed up his injury reports initially. Total wild card. 2) the murder has a lot up in the air still. Do I think AH was a solid part of the events of the evening? Probably. Do I think I know at all who pulled the trigger, what their motivations are, or really anything else? Nope. Not a clue. no idea why anyone would seriously say they do unless ive missed something. I don't even think its yet fair to say that AH did the majority of the "cleaning up" afterwards, though its likely fair to say he was well aware of the shooting and complicit in the coverup. I do think we are closing in on getting more information that will make the speculation start to matter instead of just pulling random ideas out of thin air though. 3) the nfl likely suspends him no matter what under the Big Ben - where there's smoke there's fire" theory. a good chance more seriously depending on what we have yet to learn. Otherwise, unless I've missed some facts, the rest is just taking wild stabs. 1. I would assume it took so long because the lawyer was trying to do his due diligence and make sure it was a case worth pursuing. Or perhaps AH promised to help the guy financially, reneged, and the guy had to resort to suing. Or a combo of both (AH reneged then the lawyer had to do due diligence). And that he's proceeding would suggest he's got good enough evidence. 2. No one has said AH definitely pulled the trigger. But his actions paint the picture of a man guilty of something. The reason I speculated drugs is because he's had a history of drug problems (pot, but that often leads to other stuff), consorted with a known drug dealer, scrubbed the house clean, and the style of execution. Again just a hunch. 3. I agree. The obstruction alone could get him awhile. If the civil suit sticks, that's even more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It came from a poster on the Bills message board who usually has good info. I should have said "there's a rumor" instead of "reportedly" and next time I'll make sure I make that distinction. Does that even qualify as a rumor? It's fine though. if you would've gone with "I read a post on a bills message board...." earlier in the process it wouldn't have gotten much second thought - the fact that it carried on so long without an answer is what got me so curious. It seemed like "where'd it come from" was an easy question and you danced and danced around it. And jauronimo, a situation like this where a guy heard on a board and came to another board and presented as reported fact.... Is why I was a bit overzealous out of the gate on wanting people to have bright line distinctions between "fact (and where it was gotten)" "opinion (and preferably why you have that opinion)" and "random speculation." Then we can discuss them as they truly warrant. No harm meant if I hit anyone unfairly, just get frustrated sometimes. I don't care which avenue it falls under, but I think it's for the good of everyone to qualify statements accurately - and there's no shame in wanting to gossip and take wild guesses, just don't be afraid to say that's what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 2. No one has said AH definitely pulled the trigger. But his actions paint the picture of a man guilty of something. The reason I speculated drugs is because he's had a history of drug problems (pot, but that often leads to other stuff), consorted with a known drug dealer, scrubbed the house clean, and the style of execution. Again just a hunch. If he had run a guy over on he way to Taco Bell I could see how it might be pot related since the only thing it has ever led me to is the munchies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I don't mean to ..um.. Re-hijack the thread, but is there any new developments in the actual case? My TSW time has been drastically reduced due to work schedule and I'm on record prognosticating Murder 2 charges. I take it, no. So my guess is the DA's office already has obstruction locked and are garnering further evidence to 'lay the smack down' that won't allow for bail with the BIG charge. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) I don't mean to ..um.. Re-hijack the thread, but is there any new developments in the actual case? My TSW time has been drastically reduced due to work schedule and I'm on record prognosticating Murder 2 charges. I take it, no. So my guess is the DA's office already has obstruction locked and are garnering further evidence to 'lay the smack down' that allow for bail with the BIG charge. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?? Searched a pond today, had metal detectors in some wooded areas. Reportedly nothing found. No other big news. Speculation is someone MAY have flipped and said the gun was located in the pond, but if they were also searching the woods it may indicate they were just being thorough. Pft link a bit back in the thread, or just go to pft for the above. A whole lot of "who knows?" still Edited June 25, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Searched a pond today, had metal detectors in some wooded areas. Reportedly nothing found. No other big news. Speculation is someone MAY have flipped and said the gun was located in the pond, but if they were also searching the woods it may indicate they were just being thorough. Pft link a bit back in the thread, or just go to pft for the above. A whole lot of "who knows?" still Thank you, No Saint. <sniff, sniff> you smell that? Smells like... Muuuuuurder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts