Kelly the Dog Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'd ask Belichik and McDaniel before I ask Brady or a sportswriter. I don't know what the coaches would say. They did offer more money to Amendola than they offered to Welker, so I suspect they like him more. I could be wrong. I don't think you would get the real answer out of anyone, but you already know that. IMO, I don't, however, think that just because they offered more money to Amendola they like him more. The Patriots are "Krafty", and arrogant. So is Welker. They have butted heads several times in the past. The Pats probably thought they could bully him and ultimately he would stay, and they didnt like the crap that he pulled. They usually get away with it but he seems to have called their bluff. Then, Amendola has to sign. He and his agent have a price, too, and since he was younger can command more on the open market. The Pats may have had to give him a little more to get him to sign. Furthermore, I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the Pats guaranteed Amendola 10m, and they offered Welker 10m, and Welker's 12m from Denver was fully guaranteed. So his 10m from the pats may also have been guaranteed which would make the offers from the Pats to Amendola and Welker pretty much a wash at two years for 10m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Amendola is 2" taller but also just 3# heavier. Welker is more compact, which could account for his far better durability versus Amendola's. As for speed, Welker's 4.65 at his pro day was with him weighing 195#, and he's now 10# lighter/faster/quicker. He also beat Amendola significantly in the 20-yard short shuttle which tests quickness. Lastly, having familiarity with McDaniels means about as much as it did for Lloyd, who is rumored to be getting cut. Health will be the key. Amendola hasn't proven he can stay healthy. If he can, the Pats will have a good player for the next 2-3 years before Brady declines. Panic move? Looks like it. No sooner had Welker been signed away when Amendola got slightly more than the All-Pro he's replacing. I hate the Pats, but they don't strike me as the sort of team that panics. Remember, we're not talking about the Bills here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'd ask Belichik and McDaniel before I ask Brady or a sportswriter. I don't know what the coaches would say. They did offer more money to Amendola than they offered to Welker, so I suspect they like him more. I could be wrong. A. There isn't a more important person to ask in that organization than Brady. Period. B. We don't know what the Pats* offered Welker (if anything). C. I believe you're being just a bit disingenuous (or just argumentative) to suggest losing Welker isn't a "bad" thing for that offense, even with the arrival of Danny "1/2 a season" Amendola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 A. There isn't a more important person to ask in that organization than Brady. Period. B. We don't know what the Pats* offered Welker (if anything). C. I believe you're being just a bit disingenuous (or just argumentative) to suggest losing Welker isn't a "bad" thing for that offense, even with the arrival of Danny "1/2 a season" Amendola. Welker is a great player - no doubt about it. But the key to that team is Brady, and he had a lot of success before Welker arrived on the scene. Indeed, if one is superstitious, he or she might equate Welker with Mike Mussina for the Yanks - a great player who arrived after a World Series victory and never won one while there. The year after he retires (which just happened to be his only 20-win season), the Yankees won the World Series. Of course,I'm not superstitious. That said, I haven't forgotten Welker's drop of what would have been a game sealing reception in the 2012 Super Bowl or a 3rd-quarter drive-killing drop at the Baltimore 27 in the AFC championship game this year. The drop prevented the Pats from going up by two scores, and the wheels came off immediately afterward. But yes, he really has been a great player, and I expect that he'll remain good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 The reality is that both Welker and Amendola will very likely thrive in their new environments. Who is to say which one will be better. We'd all be guessing at this answer. What we do know, however, is that the Pats were comfortable moving on from Welker to Amendola and, based on their history of successfully knowing when it's time to part ways with aging stars, they must have had their reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I hate the Pats, but they don't strike me as the sort of team that panics. Remember, we're not talking about the Bills here. The All-Pro Welker for 2-years at $6M/year versus the oft-injured Amendola for 5-years and $6.2M/year? And Amendola was signed within hours of Welker's signing with the Broncos? Doesn't sound like the kind of deal they'd usually do (speed- and money-wise), especially for a guy who has trouble staying on the field and who has never even made a Pro Bowl. BTW, that 12 catches in a half game was against the Redskins last year, not the 49'ers or Seahawks. The reality is that both Welker and Amendola will very likely thrive in their new environments. Who is to say which one will be better. We'd all be guessing at this answer. What we do know, however, is that the Pats were comfortable moving on from Welker to Amendola and, based on their history of successfully knowing when it's time to part ways with aging stars, they must have had their reasons. I'd put good money on Welker being the one to have the (far) better season. The Pats' system is harder to learn, as evidenced by the number of FA WR's who have been busts for them. And if he duplicates Lloyd's season, as you indicated you'd be happy with, that would still leave him 44 catches for 443 yards and 2 TD's fewer than Welker had. As for Amendola's familiarity with McDaniel's offense helping him, that is overblown, seeing as how McDaniels was only with the Rams for the 2011 season, and Amendola only played one game that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 The All-Pro Welker for 2-years at $6M/year versus the oft-injured Amendola for 5-years and $6.2M/year? And Amendola was signed within hours of Welker's signing with the Broncos? Doesn't sound like the kind of deal they'd usually do (speed- and money-wise), especially for a guy who has trouble staying on the field and who has never even made a Pro Bowl. BTW, that 12 catches in a half game was against the Redskins last year, not the 49'ers or Seahawks. I'd put good money on Welker being the one to have the (far) better season. The Pats' system is harder to learn, as evidenced by the number of FA WR's who have been busts for them. And if he duplicates Lloyd's season, as you indicated you'd be happy with, that would still leave him 44 catches for 443 yards and 2 TD's fewer than Welker had. As for Amendola's familiarity with McDaniel's offense helping him, that is overblown, seeing as how McDaniels was only with the Rams for the 2011 season, and Amendola only played one game that year. Troy Brown had about 90 catches a season in the slot in the couple years before Welker replaced him, didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 The All-Pro Welker for 2-years at $6M/year versus the oft-injured Amendola for 5-years and $6.2M/year? And Amendola was signed within hours of Welker's signing with the Broncos? Doesn't sound like the kind of deal they'd usually do (speed- and money-wise), especially for a guy who has trouble staying on the field and who has never even made a Pro Bowl. BTW, that 12 catches in a half game was against the Redskins last year, not the 49'ers or Seahawks. I'd put good money on Welker being the one to have the (far) better season. The Pats' system is harder to learn, as evidenced by the number of FA WR's who have been busts for them. And if he duplicates Lloyd's season, as you indicated you'd be happy with, that would still leave him 44 catches for 443 yards and 2 TD's fewer than Welker had. As for Amendola's familiarity with McDaniel's offense helping him, that is overblown, seeing as how McDaniels was only with the Rams for the 2011 season, and Amendola only played one game that year. Teams that are virtually certain to win their divisions the next season barring a catastrophic spate of injuries generally don't panic. I expect that Amendola will be fine. The only reason Welker isn't "injury prone" is because his season ending injury occurred in game 16 of a season. The concept of "injury prone" often confuses random bad luck with an inherent tendency to get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Signed with the Pats....4yrs for close to 6mil ayear Nfl network is reporting. Welker got 6mil per year from Denver, and Pats wouldn't pay that. Now they pay DA 6 mil per year? Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Welker got 6mil per year from Denver, and Pats wouldn't pay that. Now they pay DA 6 mil per year? Makes no sense. I think the Pats offered Welker 10m for two years and they guaranteed Amendola 10m on his contract. Welker took the 12m guarateed from Den. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I'd put good money on Welker being the one to have the (far) better season. The Pats' system is harder to learn, as evidenced by the number of FA WR's who have been busts for them. And if he duplicates Lloyd's season, as you indicated you'd be happy with, that would still leave him 44 catches for 443 yards and 2 TD's fewer than Welker had. As for Amendola's familiarity with McDaniel's offense helping him, that is overblown, seeing as how McDaniels was only with the Rams for the 2011 season, and Amendola only played one game that year. The "Pats system is harder to learn" belief is a fallacy. For every Ocho that struggled there is a Moss, a Welker, a Lloyd, a Stallworth, a Patten, a Caldwell, a Gaffney, and a Givens who quickly figured the system out without much trouble. And, as you mention, Amendola already studied and digested the Pats offense for a year so he'll have a head start compared to the others not named Lloyd. Also, Welker has to learn an entirely new playbook and offense too. And, he's got 2 excellent receivers over there in Denver who are already in synch with Manning and who will be competing for receptions. I think this is a flip a coin kinda scenario as to who will have the better season. I expect both to excel. The All-Pro Welker for 2-years at $6M/year versus the oft-injured Amendola for 5-years and $6.2M/year? And Amendola was signed within hours of Welker's signing with the Broncos? Doesn't sound like the kind of deal they'd usually do (speed- and money-wise), especially for a guy who has trouble staying on the field and who has never even made a Pro Bowl. If you are implying the Amendola signing was reactionary .......... Tom E. Curran @tomecurran Interesting news: Amendola signed with the Patriots on Tuesday. NE did not react to Denver, they made choice when Welker went to market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) The "Pats system is harder to learn" belief is a fallacy. For every Ocho that struggled there is a Moss, a Welker, a Lloyd, a Stallworth, a Patten, a Caldwell, a Gaffney, and a Givens who quickly figured the system out without much trouble. Mediocre to poor players at best. What's your point? The bolded guys suck. You aren't under the impression that the Pats have been running the same offense since the days of David Givens, are you? Edited March 14, 2013 by Thurmal34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Mediocre to poor players at best. What's your point? The bolded guys suck. You aren't under the impression that the Pats have been running the same offense since the days of David Givens, are you? My point is the above noted players all picked up the system without trouble. To think it is some terribly troublesome system to pick up is inaccurate. As for the Pats system .... they still run Charlie Weiss' variation of the Erhardt/Perkins system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Troy Brown had about 90 catches a season in the slot in the couple years before Welker replaced him, didn't he? He had about that from 2000-2002 but tailed-off badly after that. And Welker didn't join the Pats until 2007. Teams that are virtually certain to win their divisions the next season barring a catastrophic spate of injuries generally don't panic. I expect that Amendola will be fine. The only reason Welker isn't "injury prone" is because his season ending injury occurred in game 16 of a season. The concept of "injury prone" often confuses random bad luck with an inherent tendency to get injured. That was Welker's only missed time. Amendola missed games his rookie year and 5 games last year, on top of the 15 in 2011. The "Pats system is harder to learn" belief is a fallacy. For every Ocho that struggled there is a Moss, a Welker, a Lloyd, a Stallworth, a Patten, a Caldwell, a Gaffney, and a Givens who quickly figured the system out without much trouble. And, as you mention, Amendola already studied and digested the Pats offense for a year so he'll have a head start compared to the others not named Lloyd. Also, Welker has to learn an entirely new playbook and offense too. And, he's got 2 excellent receivers over there in Denver who are already in synch with Manning and who will be competing for receptions. I think this is a flip a coin kinda scenario as to who will have the better season. I expect both to excel. If you are implying the Amendola signing was reactionary .......... Tom E. Curran @tomecurran Interesting news: Amendola signed with the Patriots on Tuesday. NE did not react to Denver, they made choice when Welker went to market Welker rejected their 2-year $10M deal so they went to plan B. And in the process will be paying more to a guy who has proven nothing relative to Welker. With Welker, you know what you are getting. With Amendola, you're hoping he's more Welker (forget Moss comparisons since Amendola will never be mistaken for him) rather than the multitude of other receivers they've signed or drafted who were marginal players at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Welker rejected their 2-year $10M deal so they went to plan B. And in the process will be paying more to a guy who has proven nothing relative to Welker. You've got this wrong. Here is what we know: - The Pats allow Welker to hit free agency. - The Pats agree to terms with Amendola and a contract is signed on Tuesday. - Welker gets a 2/12m year offer from the Broncos on Wednesday - Welker brings the offer back to the Pats to see if they'll match and the Pats tell him "We have signed Amendola, and therefore have redundancy at your position, so we're only willing to offer you 2/10m. Take it or leave it. - Welker leaves and flies to Denver. Edited March 14, 2013 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You've got this wrong. Here is what we know: - The Pats allow Welker to hit free agency. - The Pats agree to terms with Amendola and a contract is signed on Tuesday. - Welker gets a 2/12m year offer from the Broncos on Wednesday - Welker brings the offer back to the Pats to see if they'll match and the Pats tell him "We have signed Amendola, and therefore have redundancy at your position, so we're only willing to offer you 2/10m. Take it or leave it. - Welker leaves and flies to Denver. We "know" this? From what source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 We "know" this? From what source? Sorry, I added the quoted part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Sorry, I added the quoted part. So you "know" Welker brought the Broncos' offer back to the Pats* to match? Again, from what source? Edit: I see where Ian Rappaport apparently reported this. My bad. It looks as if the Pats* moved past Welker quickly to lock up Amendola -- whether that decision makes them better is certainly still very much up for debate. Edited March 14, 2013 by eball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) It looks as if the Pats* moved past Welker quickly to lock up Amendola -- whether that decision makes them better is certainly still very much up for debate. One thing that's not up for debate is that the decision to go with Amendola is far riskier than going with Welker. Edited March 14, 2013 by Thurmal34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) One thing that's not up for debate is that the decision to go with Amendola is far riskier than going with Welker. I don't agree. Weller is getting older for a WR and he hasn't been clutch in the post season. Amendoka is a lot younger and his numbers with a crappy rams team are similar to welkerswith a crappy fins teams before becoming a pat. Also pats probably felt welkerand his public complaining about his contract were detrimental to team chemistry and the policy they want to preserve for resigning players. Edited March 14, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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