FreakPop Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Fred may be older in age, "31" but he is not old in "NFL" years. Look at touches, (rushes+catches) Fred is 31yrs old but only has 992 touches MJD-27-1762 Rice-25-1209 Mccoy-24-801 Foster-26-786 Gore-29-1940 S Jackson-29-2407 C Johnson-27-1381 Forte-26-1237 AP-27-1543 Turner-30-1468 I would put Fred around 5th in the league, I think it is really hard to pick a half dozen guys that are better than Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Fred may be older in age, "31" but he is not old in "NFL" years. Look at touches, (rushes+catches) Fred is 31yrs old but only has 992 touches MJD-27-1762 Rice-25-1209 Mccoy-24-801 Foster-26-786 Gore-29-1940 S Jackson-29-2407 C Johnson-27-1381 Forte-26-1237 AP-27-1543 Turner-30-1468 I would put Fred around 5th in the league, I think it is really hard to pick a half dozen guys that are better than Fred. The problem with what you are presenting is that you leave off his carries prior to joining the Bills. People say this like he was in Auto Sales or something prior to the Bills. He still played football and he still took hits and still had carries against big football players. So yes, his "NFL" carries look low, but he has been playing football as long as all those other guys. Now, the lower NFL mileage is probably why at 31 he will still be a very good RB where some work horse backs were done before then. But, still at 31 his days are numbered and I doubt he will be the feature back going into next year with Spiller emerging as such a dynamic player (assuming Spiller continues to build on last season). Edited August 7, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Top 5? Big claim - but he has an argument. Maybe he's not the best runner in the NFL but he's an awesome all-purpose back who can run inside, outside, block and catch. And he averaged over 5 ypc behind a less-than-dominant O Line. I'd probably rate him Top 5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cub Reporter Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Good, Fred is a great all-around back. I have always thought that Fred was one of the best backs in the league but, because he hasn't been on very good teams, has never received much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I love Freddy but he is not a top 5 back until he finishes a season. He is one of my favorite Bills of all time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 And here is the rub on all of that..... In order to keep an older RB like Fred going strong AND for the betterment of our team they need to reduce his workload and increase CJ Spillers.....which is going to hurt Freddies numbers..... There are some that wont agree with me on that....but I want Fred to last the season.....which I firmly believe will extend into December this year. Totally agree, John. I would add that Freddy is all about team goals and I seriously doubt that he'd have a problem with a reduced workload in the regular season with the expectation that the team make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 so you wouldn't trade him for a healthy Adrian Peterson? Arian Foster? Chris Johnson? hmmm, lemme think about that... No to AP. He has 2 or 3 more years at best. So does FI, plus his style of play can continue on as a catcher. Ariana Foster is a different type of back and injury liability. And Chris Johnson is a headache premadona who has let his own candle burn out. Still great but already ran his race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Considering he's not healthy that knocks him down a spot. Sorry but Freddy's much better than MJD in my opinion. Wouldn't even put Gore in the same ranking as Freddy. That's an insult. Who the hell is talking about fantasy here? You delirious boy stop making things up. After 10 games,lets see how stacks up against the other "top RBs" in the league" last year. Fred Jackson, 934 yds, 442 yds receiving, 6 TDs (1376 total yds) MJD - 941 yds, 139 yds receiving, 5 TDs (1080 total yds) Lesean McCoy - 1019 yds, 198 yds receiving, 11 TDS (1217 total yds) Adrian Peterson - 944 yds, 125 yds receiving, 12 TDs (1,069 total yds) Outside of TDs his numbers stack up with the best of the RBs in the game. As of right now my RB rankings go.. Arian Foster Lesean McCoy Ray Rice Fred Jackson Matt Forte This arbitrary ranking stuff is surely fantasy football sort of irrelevance. Who are the top 5 linebackers in the nfl? Who is better Clay Mathews or Patrick Willis? Suggs or Dansby. It's not clear cut because they play different roles on their teams. Generic generalized comparisons are fun for debates but ultimately pointless. f jax is great I am glad he is a bill, because he fits the bills scheme well. In the steelers offense he would not be a top five back. In Was and Houston's zone block running scheme he would not do as well. F jax is slippery and agile with great hands and vision. He doesn't have the one cut and burst/power like foster, turner or even McGahee. He can't get to the edge like McFadden, or Johnson, or run through people like Peterson or even Greene. Where do you put Demarco Murray or Gore or Jones Drew? Steven Jackson has taken over games as has Ray Rice. I'd say he is similar to Forte, and Bradshaw where his protection, running instincts, screen ability and elusiveness at the second level are his strengths. Edited August 8, 2012 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) The problem with what you are presenting is that you leave off his carries prior to joining the Bills. People say this like he was in Auto Sales or something prior to the Bills. He still played football and he still took hits and still had carries against big football players. So yes, his "NFL" carries look low, but he has been playing football as long as all those other guys. Now, the lower NFL mileage is probably why at 31 he will still be a very good RB where some work horse backs were done before then. But, still at 31 his days are numbered and I doubt he will be the feature back going into next year with Spiller emerging as such a dynamic player (assuming Spiller continues to build on last season). He played a year in NFL Europe and BARELY played 2 seasons in Arena football since playing college football. That's not enough carries for wear and tear. This arbitrary ranking stuff is surely fantasy football sort of irrelevance. Who are the top 5 linebackers in the nfl? Who is better Clay Mathews or Patrick Willis? Suggs or Dansby. It's not clear cut because they play different roles on their teams. Generic generalized comparisons are fun for debates but ultimately pointless. f jax is great I am glad he is a bill, because he fits the bills scheme well. In the steelers offense he would not be a top five back. In Was and Houston's zone block running scheme he would not do as well. F jax is slippery and agile with great hands and vision. He doesn't have the one cut and burst/power like foster, turner or even McGahee. He can't get to the edge like McFadden, or Johnson, or run through people like Peterson or even Greene. Where do you put Demarco Murray or Gore or Jones Drew? Steven Jackson has taken over games as has Ray Rice. I'd say he is similar to Forte, and Bradshaw where his protection, running instincts, screen ability and elusiveness at the second level are his strengths. No it's not. Me ranking RB's is me ranking RB's as to who I think is the best pure RB in the league. It has nothing to do with fantasy. If i were to rank my top 10 QBs of all time, I guess that has to do with fantasy as well? You really comparing Patrick Willis to Clay Mathews? It's CLEAR that Willis is the better LB and if you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you except to watch more football. Sure, comparing LBs in a 34 to a LB in a 43 is more difficult but comparing RBs to a RB is easier Edited August 8, 2012 by FleaMoulds80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 He played a year in NFL Europe and BARELY played 2 seasons in Arena football since playing college football. That's not enough carries for wear and tear. No it's not. Me ranking RB's is me ranking RB's as to who I think is the best pure RB in the league. It has nothing to do with fantasy. If i were to rank my top 10 QBs of all time, I guess that has to do with fantasy as well? You really comparing Patrick Willis to Clay Mathews? It's CLEAR that Willis is the better LB and if you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you except to watch more football. Sure, comparing LBs in a 34 to a LB in a 43 is more difficult but comparing RBs to a RB is easier Says who? What evidence are you making these observations from? Have you played in NFL Europe or the Arena League? It silly to pretend it had no impact on him because there's no way of actually knowing. Almost as silly as chiding someone for comparing Matthews and Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Says who? What evidence are you making these observations from? Have you played in NFL Europe or the Arena League? It silly to pretend it had no impact on him because there's no way of actually knowing. Almost as silly as chiding someone for comparing Matthews and Willis. Have you ever seen an arena football game? The league's a JOKE and doesn't have nearly the physicality of the NFL. You'd be able to tell if you watched it. Arena football is a track game more than a ground and pound game which is why the scores are always ridiculously high. So no, I don't account for that as real football. Willis is MUCH better than Mathews. Are you serious? Willis is the best LB in the game right now hands down. Ask anyone and they'll tell you that he is. I suggest you watch some more football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Says who? What evidence are you making these observations from? Have you played in NFL Europe or the Arena League? It silly to pretend it had no impact on him because there's no way of actually knowing. Almost as silly as chiding someone for comparing Matthews and Willis. Well, doing a little research shows, that Mr. Jackson had 184 touches in NFL Europe, and 624 touches in the Indoor League. So he had roughly 800 touches in about 4 years or so from college (22yrs old i'm guessing) until playing for the Bills(26 yrs old). Then he only had about 250 touches in his first 2 yrs in Buffalo. He is not an "NFL old" 31 by any means. This, he is old worn down/breaks down easily is hogwash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm curious how they broke down his attributes. He's not the fastest back, but he's fast enough. And he doesn't have Barry Sanders style agility but he is very elusive nonetheless. He's not one to plow through the line but still runs strong and breaks tackles. His hands are excellent, his blocking is superb, and his field awareness is elite. I wonder how well his Madden attributes reflect his skill set. I'm too old for Madden but I agree with the assessment. Well, doing a little research shows, that Mr. Jackson had 184 touches in NFL Europe, and 624 touches in the Indoor League. So he had roughly 800 touches in about 4 years or so from college (22yrs old i'm guessing) until playing for the Bills(26 yrs old). Then he only had about 250 touches in his first 2 yrs in Buffalo. He is not an "NFL old" 31 by any means. This, he is old worn down/breaks down easily is hogwash. I wonder if NFLE and indoor touches really count the same, anyway. I mean, I don't think defenders at that level hit as hard as NFL defenders who run like cheetahs and hit like freight trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 It's not the number of touches, it's his chronological age. Once RBs get around 30 they slow down and lose some explosiveness. That doesn't mean they can't be effective backs, but it's a downhill slide. I think this whole "Freddy isn't beat up" argument is us trying to delude ourselves that we have more time with a solid RB than we really do. He will be on the team 2 more years then I think he's gone. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Outside of TDs his numbers stack up with the best of the RBs in the game. As of right now my RB rankings go.. Arian Foster Lesean McCoy Ray Rice Fred Jackson Matt Forte MJD---------------#1 in yards, #1 in offensive penalties Arian Foster-----tied for 2nd in fumbles (4), #2 in offensive penalties Lesean McCoy-#1 in PFF's rushing ranking for RB's Ray Rice--------#1 in PFF's receiving ranking for RB's Fred Jackson--#1 in PFF's overall ranking for RB's, #1 in blocking, #2 in receiving Matt Forte------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Willis is MUCH better than Mathews. Are you serious? Willis is the best LB in the game right now hands down. Ask anyone and they'll tell you that he is. I suggest you watch some more football. I am going to watch some football very soon. Can't wait. I see..... it's YOUR ranking.... And in this fantasy your arbitrary opinion can be written as fact. I have a friend, packers fan, who says Clay is the best linebacker in the league. Which certainly refutes your "anyone" comment. Also the ravens fans around here still think ray Lewis is the more dominant MLB. Just saying.... Anyone in San Francisco might agree... Pattern? See it? Now I am not claiming this for certain, but I have heard bias can influence judgement. But enough of that, I don't want to delay any more of these consequential player rankings. Please let me know when results for guards is in. I really just can't wait. And by the way I am glad fjax is a bill, but I couldn't find evidence anywhere to suggest he is a better rb than Steven Jackson. Are you just talking about the wrong guy? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Well, doing a little research shows, that Mr. Jackson had 184 touches in NFL Europe, and 624 touches in the Indoor League. So he had roughly 800 touches in about 4 years or so from college (22yrs old i'm guessing) until playing for the Bills(26 yrs old). Then he only had about 250 touches in his first 2 yrs in Buffalo. He is not an "NFL old" 31 by any means. This, he is old worn down/breaks down easily is hogwash. I get the argument he's "less used" than other backs. I won't even begin to refute this. All I'm saying is that Fred Jackson will not be a Pro Bowl caliber back in his mid-30s like some on here seem to believe. This is not a bad thing. It's simply a reality those enamored w/ Fred must realize. Some people seem to think because he hasn't led a normal running backs life he gets to roll back five years of his life. The whole "Fred is 31 + he's got less touches = he ain't slowing down a bit" argument is a bit far fetched. I hope Chan realizes this and gives him less touches early in the year so he's fresh when were pushing for the playoffs in the crappy weather late in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I get the argument he's "less used" than other backs. I won't even begin to refute this. All I'm saying is that Fred Jackson will not be a Pro Bowl caliber back in his mid-30s like some on here seem to believe. This is not a bad thing. It's simply a reality those enamored w/ Fred must realize. Some people seem to think because he hasn't led a normal running backs life he gets to roll back five years of his life. The whole "Fred is 31 + he's got less touches = he ain't slowing down a bit" argument is a bit far fetched. I hope Chan realizes this and gives him less touches early in the year so he's fresh when were pushing for the playoffs in the crappy weather late in the year. Chan is no dummy. Ive seen him switch around players when needed without hesitation and is always talking about ensuring backs aren't run into the ground. Also spiller could push for a greater part of the workload anyway if he continues improving over the second half of last season. He looked a little bigger and stronger to me in campy his far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintmyhouse Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Love Fred Jackson, hard worker, really good player, productive, what is not to like. He is not a top 5 player, never has been, hard to say he will be. Just hope brings us wins!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) LOVE Fred. -Love the guy. IMO, He's the best RB we've had since Thurman, and my whole family thinks he's 100% awesome. However.... Freddy DID put the ball on the ground a couple times last season. I couldn't believe it when it happened, but it did. I hope he's had time to adddress that problem in training camp. As far as him being top five, that's a tough one. -He definitely has top 5 potential, but at the age of 31, top five may be a whole lot to ask. Edited August 8, 2012 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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