NE's Offense vs Buffalo's Defense

[Pneumonic]

I think the Bills strategy towards the Patriots' offense is to either force Brady to throw quickly or make the Patriots put in a max protection scheme that eliminates their strengths in Gronk, Welker, and Hernandez. Buffalo Rumblings had a nice piece back in March outlining the potential blocking schemes:

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/17/2878990/mario-williams-buffalo-bills-defensive-line

 

If the Bills D-line does not command additional blockers or does not get to Brady quickly, it'll look much like last year. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills put Gilmore on Gronk.

Forcing Brady to throw quick isn't the best way to defend him because their offense is designed to defeat just that by employing a quick and short passing game. Brady is very astute at the LOS and he prcoesses defenses so quickly and accurately, it's an exercise in futility to try and pressure him in the pocket. Especially so when coupled to what has traditionally been a very strong pass blocking OL.

 

Inevitably those defenses which have had success in defending the Pats offense do so either with top notch coverage of his receiving weapons (which causes coverage sacks or throwaways) or by mass confusion like what the Jets and Giants have been successful at doing of late. With the addition of Brandon Lloyd I think the Pats will be much more difficult to defend in coverage so I would think causing confusion is the best plan of attack. Then again, Brady is a year wiser and already one of the wisest to ever QB in the NFL.

 

One post mentioned how the Giants D-Line can play without getting exposed on run plays. When the Pat*s beat us (or anyone for that matter) because of their run game, I'll worry.

Keep in mind that the Pats short passing game is part of their run game.

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

Now granted a M Williams - Dareus - K Williams - Merriman (Anderson) grouping has the potential to excel against the Pats but for entirely different reasons than why the Giants front of Tuck, Osi, JPP and Canty caused the Pats so much grief.

 

I agree with that statement, my previous post wasn't exactly clear. I wasn't trying to argue that our DL is going to be a clone of NYG's DL. My point was that we finally have four capable players who could generate sufficient pressure without the need to thrown in a fifth body (DB/LB) on a blitz. Again assuming all stay healthy, the Bills haven't had this quality of a pass rush in quite some time.

[Pneumonic]

I agree with that statement, my previous post wasn't exactly clear. I wasn't trying to argue that our DL is going to be a clone of NYG's DL. My point was that we finally have four capable players who could generate sufficient pressure without the need to thrown in a fifth body (DB/LB) on a blitz. Again assuming all stay healthy, the Bills haven't had this quality of a pass rush in quite some time.

I agree. If Dareus improves his play and if M Williams plays better this year than he has the last 2 seasons then, health permitting, the Bills DL has serious potential to be a top 5 unit.

[Bufcomments]

The OP has a point and as I have been saying all off season, almost all the moves we made on D is to stop Brady. Well at least get some pressure on him.

 

And we can rotate players in to keep Mario and Kyle and Dareus fresh. I am interested this summer to see how Dwan Edwards handles backup DT. Him along with S. Johnson looks good with Merriman and Kelsey on the outside. If Troup can play this yr we are very deep on the Dline.

 

I think we got a good shot at pressuring Brady into mistakes. Guys like Byrd, Gilmore, Wilson will make Brady pay if he pressured. If we win the turnover battles we can beat NE twice this yr I really believe that.

[sllib olaffub]

At first glance it would appear Buffalo has indeed built a defense whose primary objective is to be able to beat the Patriots. On the other hand, how do these personnel moves mesh with Wanny's preferred defense, Patriots or no? I think having to contend with the Patriots gives the Bills extra incentive to get that D-line fortified with pass rushers, but I also think our defense is built to stop just about any offense. We don't have much by way of weakness. And, as far as 4-3 vs 3-4 goes, some of the best defenses in history, IMO, were 4-3 fronts. The way I see it, if you can control the running game and get pressure on the QB with 4 guys, that beats having to commit 5 or more that 3-4 usually end up using.

 

Anyway, I think, when two teams have evenly matched players it comes down to the coaching. Bellicheck hasn't been out-coached in many games. Gailey, IMO, though, hasn't looked too bad in games either. When he's been beaten it usually has been because his players weren't up to the task, or, he's crippled himself by refusing to adjust schemes.

 

I think Buffalo is going to have a real chance at beating New England this year in both games. But, other posts have brought up, quite rightly, that the Patriots are likely to win 12 or more this year. Their schedule favors it, as well. We have to not only beat them, but we've got to come out of the regular season with 11 wins, I think, to guarantee at least a wildcard.

[#34fan]

It seems a tad delusional to cast our team as the AFCE champs-in-waiting when all we did was add a couple of defensive peices in the off season.

 

Hate to break it to you guys, but the Dolphruits made a few changes as well. So did that other AFCE team that swept us last year.

 

I think it's OK to be excited about our defense's potential, but until they start living up to it, that's all it is. -Potential. Given this franchise's recent history, the extreme cockiness i've felt around here lately is totally unwarranted. We've got a LONG way to go. Still......

 

GOOOO BILLS.

Edited June 24, 2012 by #34fan

[Fan in San Diego]

Forcing Brady to throw quick isn't the best way to defend him because their offense is designed to defeat just that by employing a quick and short passing game. Brady is very astute at the LOS and he prcoesses defenses so quickly and accurately, it's an exercise in futility to try and pressure him in the pocket. Especially so when coupled to what has traditionally been a very strong pass blocking OL.

 

Inevitably those defenses which have had success in defending the Pats offense do so either with top notch coverage of his receiving weapons (which causes coverage sacks or throwaways) or by mass confusion like what the Jets and Giants have been successful at doing of late. With the addition of Brandon Lloyd I think the Pats will be much more difficult to defend in coverage so I would think causing confusion is the best plan of attack. Then again, Brady is a year wiser and already one of the wisest to ever QB in the NFL.

 

 

Keep in mind that the Pats short passing game is part of their run game.

I disagree. Getting pressure on Brady and making him get happy feet is the best way to defend Brady. it is well documented that when he starts getting hit and forced to throw quickly, he makes bad throws and inaccurate throws.

[Just in Atlanta]

Why are your posts so long?

I don't know about the other posts. But to answer your question about this post, because he has a lot of analysis. If you don't want long posts, go to Twitter.

[Rockinon]

You gotta love this defense. I think Mario is going to do more damage to Brady holding the line more than pass rushing (at least when it's a three step drop). The guy is just a monster. Brady throws a ton right over where Mario will be playing. Mario is big enough, strong enough, tough enough and can jump like a kangaroo to disrupt Brady's vision, his throws or just tip passes (hopefully to himself. I've read he has 10 ints. that's quite a stat). Both of our DTs are ideal for playing Brady as well. NE line is the best pass-blocking line I have ever seen and then some. But, I think the fact that we have not one, but two - primo penetrating DTs will give them some trouble. They are going to be a very tough assignment for any team as long as their healthy.... Having two makes them really special and unique. And of course we have two speed rushers as well in Mr. Anderson and Light's Out. Again, having two is Way better than one (unless that one is B.S.) So many times i have seen pass rushers get gassed playing passing teams. You simply can't rush hard every play....unless you have two of them.

I also think Kelsay is a pretty darn good backup at LDE. Mario doesn't have to hold back tossing people around, he can rest a series or two....

And that's just the D-line!

I love that whole defense, I'm telling you..... Sheppard has the tools to run that D. A very big and solid with B.S. type glutes. (B.S. Himself accredited his big glutes as the reason for his dominance). gym rat when he isn't watching film. He is a tough guy who will drop them on contact and yet is athletic enough to play pass defense. Barnett is one of our best players and will not leave the field. A former #1 because of his combination of toughnees and speed. Barnett will light up backs with their head down as he knives in between blockers and hits with nice explosion. He is one of the best three-down LBs in the league and what a great get for chixy and us fans. I really like Captain Kirk at SLB as well. Highly experienced and durable, he won't be fooled often. Has the size and the history to play that spot well. Both he and Barnett are former MLB that called their defense, can't think of a better place for Sheppard to grow than behindvour line and surrounded by coaches on the field. That said, by fall.the two impressive rookies ought to be able to help if needed. Mr. Scott is definitely going to play more than Captain Kirk in this show as more teams throw more every year. Scott McKillop has a chance to impress enough that we keep a seventh LB to back up Sheppard, but I see them giving the spot to someone else & sliding Morrison in the middle and giving Nigel the SLB job.

 

Well, I am finally getting tired but I could ramble on and on about this defense otherwise....you know I love our super heat seeking killer extra big CBs. Their job is to either catch poorly thrown balls, which will bevmore abundant this year, or lay the lumber. Something they both excell at and a great way to defend our middle. I may love our safties most of all... All around great players that hit harder then they look, have great hands and ofcourse, always watching film or working out..... Right now, we go a very respestable, six deep at CB. What's not to love?

 

Go Bills!

Captain Kirk? Mr. Scott? New name for the Bill's defense..... "The Enterprise".

[Pneumonic]

I disagree. Getting pressure on Brady and making him get happy feet is the best way to defend Brady. it is well documented that when he starts getting hit and forced to throw quickly, he makes bad throws and inaccurate throws.

My point is it's next to impossible to get pressure on Brady on a consistent basis unless you confuse him with scheme (ie Giants NASCAR package) or you get great coverage play (Jets) which makes him hold the ball longer than usual. The Pats offense (quick hitting, short passing game) is designed around Brady's biggest strength's, processing things properly at the LOS and getting rid of the ball very quickly, and is intended to beat defenses that play simple man up in the trenches. Especially so with the great pass protection the Pats OL generally affords Brady and the weapons he has at his disposal; guys who are adept at getting open in short area passing zones.

[sllib olaffub]

It is certainly true that we fans on this forum have been getting more and more confident, making these claims of future wins against the likes of the Patriots, even. And, although we haven't actually been good yet, at least not for a duration, we are a team that has been improving step by step since Gailey and Nix took over. It is not at all unreasonable to expect that we'd be better this year, given that we're getting healthy on offense, got a key guy in LT Glenn, Wood is healthy at C, and Easley is back at WR - those are additions that will help. Not to mention Fitz is healthy again - and the whole team has time and an offseason to get better at Gailey's system. In the Patriots case, they've already been there - so we should improve, while they should merely remain good.

 

And, on defense, there is no denying all the additions we've made - and it isn't just a couple players. The entire front seven is better and by a ton. The front seven lineup we're likely to see this year, on paper, has the potential to be one of the best in a decade, perhaps. And, our secondary is very solid - it's not like they are just passable, they have the potential to be excellent! Add to that Wannstedt's presence, and all this premature arrogance is really more just a very reasonable, long waited, anticipation. It is okay to get excited and to have something good to look forward to. It is not bad, either, though, to remember that we have to prove it as well - and the Bills know that. That will be the fun to look forward to!

[Rockinon]

I find it kind of interesting that there have been comparisons to the Giant's NASCAR defense. As one poster pointed out, they employed 4 defensive ends....smaller guys able to penetrate the offensive line quickly. Yes, Marcel and Kyle are bigger, but that is the beauty of it. Both of those guys have had 5 sacks while playing Nose Tackle. That's two big men who are not only able to penetrate quickly enough to get after a QB, but also are powerful enough to get some push. If they can't shoot the gap and get the passer, they can collapse the pocket. Either way works. The Bills may be using a similar style because that is what works against NE. On the other hand, they don't have to follow the blueprint to a tee. They can put their own stamp on the plan. I like what this defense looks like. The upcoming season is going to be interesting.

 

The front four also will have some tricks up their sleeve. It's not all about shooting the gap or collapsing the pocket. There are stunt moves that can be used to disrupt an offensive line's weaknesses. There is some serious talent here. All they have to do now is put in the work and they can dominate this league.

[Pneumonic]

I find it kind of interesting that there have been comparisons to the Giant's NASCAR defense. As one poster pointed out, they employed 4 defensive ends....smaller guys able to penetrate the offensive line quickly. Yes, Marcel and Kyle are bigger, but that is the beauty of it. Both of those guys have had 5 sacks while playing Nose Tackle. That's two big men who are not only able to penetrate quickly enough to get after a QB, but also are powerful enough to get some push. If they can't shoot the gap and get the passer, they can collapse the pocket. Either way works. The Bills may be using a similar style because that is what works against NE. On the other hand, they don't have to follow the blueprint to a tee. They can put their own stamp on the plan. I like what this defense looks like. The upcoming season is going to be interesting.

 

The front four also will have some tricks up their sleeve. It's not all about shooting the gap or collapsing the pocket. There are stunt moves that can be used to disrupt an offensive line's weaknesses. There is some serious talent here. All they have to do now is put in the work and they can dominate this league.

The uniqueness with the Giants DL is that the 4 DE all can play all spots on the DL. Inside and out. All 3 downs. It's this ability that is the real problem for a QB because the QB struggles to read what scheme and front the Giants DL is in. For a thinking QB like Brady it takes away perhaps his biggest strength and key matchup advantage; that of pre-snap read of the opposing defense.

 

Now, as promising as the Bills DL is, guys like Dareus and K Williams are 4-3 interior players who won't give the same flexibility, and thus scheme confusion, that all the Giants DE's give. This is not to say that the Bills front 4 can't be effective rushing Brady but, as pointed out previously, the Pats offense is ideally suited to effectively counter such schemes.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Pneumonic

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

IF the Bills offense can avoid any injuries resulting in games lost, the Bills O can be good. They were in the top tier in points per game through the first 5 games. Then players started to drop and were put on IR. Then there were those who played through pain like Fitz w/badly bruised ribs.

 

Then you lose your center and his backup hikes the ball low and left on every snap in the Miami game to the rib injured Fitz. Add in the 2nd replacement center. Then there was the loss of 33% of the offense when Fast Freddy went down....

 

 

Not to mention 2 players that can produce double digit sack totals .......

 

10-6 or better.

Edited June 24, 2012 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The uniqueness with the Giants DL is that the 4 DE all can play all spots on the DL. Inside and out. All 3 downs. It's this ability that is the real problem for a QB because the QB struggles to read what scheme and front the Giants DL is in. For a thinking QB like Brady it takes away perhaps his biggest strength and key matchup advantage; that of pre-snap read of the opposing defense.

 

Now, as promising as the Bills DL is, guys like Dareus and K Williams are 4-3 interior players who won't give the same flexibility, and thus scheme confusion, that all the Giants DE's give. This is not to say that the Bills front 4 can't be effective rushing Brady but, as pointed out previously, the Pats offense is ideally suited to effectively counter such schemes.

You raise a valid point about the differences between the Giants' "NASCAR" package and the Bills Base D.

 

However, I read somewhere that the Bills can and will go NASCAR on obvious passing downs with M Williams, Anderson, Merriman, and Kelsay, and will be able to use the same tactics of moving them around to confuse the offense as the Giants do.

 

Meanwhile our base defense will have the talent to stop the run and rush the passer in non-obvious passing downs.

 

 

[ganesh]

While the Bills DL *may* end up being productive against the Pats it won't be because they are similar to that Giants DL that caused the Pats so much trouble. The 4 of Tuck, Osi, JPP and Canty are unique in that they are all sub 275#, pass rush DE's who excel at getting at the QB but who can also all defend the run without being exposed. What this combination of rush/run skillset allows is for all 4 of them to be used in all 4 DL spots on all 3 downs in all series of the game. This is what caused the Pats trouble, the matchup and confusion that having 4 such unique DE's all being able to play inside or out and not knowing where they'll lineup play in and play out.

 

The Bills don't have anything close to that personnel (4-3 pass rush DE's who can also play 4-3 DT capably) on the DL on a consistent and regular basis. The closest thing they could lineup in comparison (ie all DE types) would be Merriman - M Williams - Kelsay - Anderson and if they did use this regularly in a game they'd get dominated. FTR, I have excluded Dareus and K Williams in this package since they are 300+ pound DT's and not 275# 4-3 DE's like what the Giants have.

 

Now granted a M Williams - Dareus - K Williams - Merriman (Anderson) grouping has the potential to excel against the Pats but for entirely different reasons than why the Giants front of Tuck, Osi, JPP and Canty caused the Pats so much grief.

 

Have to disagree...Kyle Williams and Dareus are penetrating interior linemen who can rush the passer and have had good success in stopping the run and forcing it to the outside. If Mario and Anderson can play as thye are expected they should be able to stop those runs to the outside or the cutback lanes. If they do, we will have a strong run defense and at the same time offer a tremendous pass rush. The question is: Can they execute consistently on 70 plays a game week-in-week-out. We will find out in September.

[Pneumonic]

Have to disagree...Kyle Williams and Dareus are penetrating interior linemen who can rush the passer and have had good success in stopping the run and forcing it to the outside. If Mario and Anderson can play as thye are expected they should be able to stop those runs to the outside or the cutback lanes. If they do, we will have a strong run defense and at the same time offer a tremendous pass rush. The question is: Can they execute consistently on 70 plays a game week-in-week-out. We will find out in September.

My point isn't that they'll not be effective in their roles. If they perform as capable I suspect they'll be highly productive.

 

My point is that comparing this Bills DL to the NASCAR DL version of what the Giants used to confuse and ultimately curtail Brady isn't at all accurate. The two defensive fronts employ very different personnel skillsets. The Giants regularly employed all of their DE's in all 4 positional spots on the DL in an attempt to confuse Brady's pre-snap recognition and utlimately fluster him. The Bills don't have the personnel to do the same. They'll simply line em up and attempt to win the 1 on 1 battles against the Pats OL so that they are able to pressure Brady before he is able to get the ball out to his receiving options (or before his receiving options are able to get open).

[John from Riverside]

Brady has gone up against, and beaten, oodles of the leagues best defenses for over a decade now. There is a well established pattern of success in his corner. It's not like the Bills defense is going to be anything different than what Brady has routinely dissected numerous times throughout his career.

 

Further, in those Giants SB wins it was Manning and his offense that won it for them. As mentioned previously, it's all about QB play over the course of a season.

 

 

Excuse me but this is simply NOT true.

 

This defense in no way shape or form resembles defenses that Brady has picked apart in the past. People so quickly forget....EVERY SINGLE ONE of the defensive linemen on this new front is a bonafied pass rusher......you literally will not be able to double on one as if you do someone else is going to make the play.....Anderson....Darius....Kyle...Mario...ALL of them can get to the passer.

 

I am trying to remember the last time a defense was in place that could do this....The closest we got was back when Ted Washington and Pat Williams were manning the interior.....we are THAT GOOD there again and have added EDGE PASS RUSH

 

Brady has disected our defenses in the past yes.....that is because he could make a call to his wife from the pocket for lack of fear of getting manhandled by a defensive linemen.....

 

Quick strike passing game is what Brady does best....that is why teams that blitz and do things open ultimately get killed by him. secondary and linebackers will all be back in the passing lanes.....causing Brady to bring the ball down and not throw it immediatley....and as soon as he brings that ball down? He will have a D linemen in his face.

 

Oh look.....a couple of the D linemen rotated out for a breather....now I will get a chance...not so fast...because now the 2nd wave comes in with Merriman and Kelsay

 

This is NOT the same defense Brady has picked apart. And the Patriots defense was NOT good last year......

 

I honestly could see a blowout

 

Putting Scott in and Barnett in, 2 LB's...but Scott really is not an LB - he can play one, but he is a monster/rover.

 

I think he is perfect for this defense......honestly Scott has always played like a linebacker anyways

[Pneumonic]

Excuse me but this is simply NOT true.

 

This defense in no way shape or form resembles defenses that Brady has picked apart in the past. People so quickly forget....EVERY SINGLE ONE of the defensive linemen on this new front is a bonafied pass rusher......you literally will not be able to double on one as if you do someone else is going to make the play.....Anderson....Darius....Kyle...Mario...ALL of them can get to the passer.

 

I am trying to remember the last time a defense was in place that could do this....The closest we got was back when Ted Washington and Pat Williams were manning the interior.....we are THAT GOOD there again and have added EDGE PASS RUSH

 

Brady has disected our defenses in the past yes.....that is because he could make a call to his wife from the pocket for lack of fear of getting manhandled by a defensive linemen.....

 

Quick strike passing game is what Brady does best....that is why teams that blitz and do things open ultimately get killed by him. secondary and linebackers will all be back in the passing lanes.....causing Brady to bring the ball down and not throw it immediatley....and as soon as he brings that ball down? He will have a D linemen in his face.

 

Oh look.....a couple of the D linemen rotated out for a breather....now I will get a chance...not so fast...because now the 2nd wave comes in with Merriman and Kelsay

 

This is NOT the same defense Brady has picked apart. And the Patriots defense was NOT good last year......

 

I honestly could see a blowout

 

 

 

I think he is perfect for this defense......honestly Scott has always played like a linebacker anyways

You are missing my point which is this Bills defense is NOT at all like the Giants defense that has caused Brady so much trouble of late. That Giants defense caused Brady trouble because, by scheme, they were unique enough to be able to lineup 4 DE at any and all DL spots - inside and out, on any down, for every series played in the game, which was so confusing that the Pats OL blocking calls collapsed which ultimately took away Brady's best skill, the ability to read a defense, pre snap, in order to identify the best matchup to take advantage of, and the Giants made them pay. This would be akin to asking Dareus and K Williams line-up as DE's with Anderson and M Williams lining up at inside at DT play in and play out. That's not going to happen with any regularity to cause recognition problems for Brady.

 

I am not saying the DL won't be able to get after Brady and cause him trouble. Many teams have DL capable of doing this and have done so in the past and caused Brady grief.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Pneumonic

[BuffaloBill]

Can our linebackers cover their tight ends???

 

 

That is a gay .... Err ... Merry thought...