One of the best written articles that I have ever read about football.

[Tipster19]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/13/v-fullstory/2796891/former-miami-dolphin-zach-thomas.html

 

It really makes one think about the sport that so many fans love, especially after all these recent issues that this article touches upon. Also, I never realized how intelligent Zachary Thomas is, I always considered him just a big meathead jock. I see now how wrong I was.

[RevWarRifleman]

Tipster, it is a good article. Its thought provoking and tells of a side of football that's been kind of glossed over in the past.

 

There's often a "cultural lag" that takes place between how a long-held percection of something finally starts to change as more and more cold hard facts about that event, or behavior, or issue, is brought to our collective consciousness. Case-in-point is the perception of concussions in sports within the last few years. Twenty and more years ago in pro football, colorful phrases like, "He got his bell rung!", or "He's shaking the cobwebs out" were common descriptions & percieved as just normal occurances of playing the game. NOTHING was ever covered about the after-affects that those players suffered as a result of numerous concussions. And so we all just moved on.

 

Here in 2012, I think that cultural lag is finishing. Our awareness of this type of injury with its potential to have serious long-term affect is raised once again with Junior's suicide. I believe that in the years to come, we will see rule changes, team policy changes and behavior changes through all levels of football and other contact sports from pop-Warner level all the way up to the pro level as this "cultural lag" finally come to an end.

 

That's my take on it, anyway.

[dogma+]

“People are automatically saying that concussions did this — or that the transition away from the game did this — but it is all speculation,” Thomas said. “We don’t know what did this. How can we know? We have to have facts before jumping to conclusions. I never want to take a shot at the game that made me, that’s been so good to me. It’s an awesome game.”

[Tipster19]

"We have to have facts before jumping to conclusions."

This comment alone impressed me the most from Zach Thomas. In it's simplicity I found it very prolific. With that being said there is unknown issues that need to be discovered and resolved in this sport. I'm not intelligent enough to know what is causing the instability of former players but I do realize that there are some very dark and underlying issues that need to be brought to light so they can be met and dealt with.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I thought Zach's comments reflected common sense and sobriety (both albeit in short supply these days).

 

He certainly didn't add to the hysteria surrounding the issue but as a player with several concussions himself, why would he?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

“People are automatically saying that concussions did this — or that the transition away from the game did this — but it is all speculation,” Thomas said. “We don’t know what did this. How can we know? We have to have facts before jumping to conclusions. I never want to take a shot at the game that made me, that’s been so good to me. It’s an awesome game.”

That's how I feel about it.

[School 62]

One of the most jarring statistics anywhere in sports is this one: Sports Illustrated reports that 78 percent of football players are either broke or divorced within two years of retiring.

 

Really? I would sure like to see some support for that allegation. Some doctoral student somewhere has got to be working on the parallels between PTSD and the situation of retired football players.

[mrags]

I love how he says that if he had the chance to go back and do it all over again he'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

At the end of the day, if current, past or future players are suffering from what the game has done or will do fo them, they can always chose a different profession or could have in the past. These guys play this game for a few reasons. Money, Fame, glory, cempetetive nature. Most of these guys wanted this and now they are going to complain what it's done to them? They knew the risks to this game when they took it up. If they didn't they were probably too blind from the money and fame in the first place. You don't see this type of thing in any other sport. Or too many other professions for that matter. This isn't working in a place that you found out later in life had unsafe working conditions. These players knew there was a possibility of injury. I'm sick of heating about all this stiluff to be honest with you.

[Mr. WEO]

“People are automatically saying that concussions did this — or that the transition away from the game did this — but it is all speculation,” Thomas said. “We don’t know what did this. How can we know? We have to have facts before jumping to conclusions. I never want to take a shot at the game that made me, that’s been so good to me. It’s an awesome game.”

This is likely the prevailing attitude.

 

I have seen no account anywhere that attributes any of the typical "CTE" symptoms to Junior. There is no doubt that the CTE people will find evidence of the is disease in his brain (they have never not found it in any fottball player's brain). Not sure what the connection is in his case, or if there is one.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I love how he says that if he had the chance to go back and do it all over again he'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

At the end of the day, if current, past or future players are suffering from what the game has done or will do fo them, they can always chose a different profession or could have in the past. These guys play this game for a few reasons. Money, Fame, glory, cempetetive nature. Most of these guys wanted this and now they are going to complain what it's done to them? They knew the risks to this game when they took it up. If they didn't they were probably too blind from the money and fame in the first place. You don't see this type of thing in any other sport. Or too many other professions for that matter. This isn't working in a place that you found out later in life had unsafe working conditions. These players knew there was a possibility of injury. I'm sick of heating about all this stiluff to be honest with you.

I'm sick of hearing about this stuff too and look forward to the day where the game is made safe enough that we don't have to hear about it anymore.

 

There are some standard and valid counterpoints to viewpoints like the one you express above.

 

1) What of the players who didn't know any of the risks of head trauma (let's just say 1960's players for example… we don't have to be precise on what year)?

 

How about the players who maybe knew some of the risks (Steve Young retired in 1999 because he was concerned with the number of concussions he had received) but not all of the risks?

 

Wouldn't you say that those two groups of players are in a different boat ("class" in legal terms) than the guys who were drafted just last month?

 

2) How about the fact that the NFL from 1994 to 2007 downplayed the effects of concussions? http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3644940

 

Everyone who wants to have a respected opinion on this issue ought to read the above link, excerpted below:

 

"Since it first published research results in 2003, Pellman's committee has drawn a number of important conclusions about head trauma and how to treat it that contradict the research and experiences of many other doctors who treat sports concussions, not to mention the players who have suffered them. For example, Pellman and his colleagues wrote in January 2005 that returning to play after a concussion "does not involve significant risk of a second injury either in the same game or during the season." But a 2003 NCAA study of 2,905 college football players found just the opposite: Those who have suffered concussions are more susceptible to further head trauma for seven to 10 days after the injury."

 

Suffice it to say that the NFL repeatedly defied and contradicted other studies that showed severe consequences for trying to play through head injuries. Again the NFL did this from 1994-2007.

 

3) What do you say about the merit of plaintiffs such as Wayne Chrebet and Merril Hoge (or for that matter Colt McCoy just last year in a nationally televised game) who were sent back into action just plays after suffering obvious and serious head injuries? Should concussed players "recognize the risks" and determine whether they are fit to return to action?

 

On a related issue, is your opinion that the players should assume all risks and responsibilities the same as saying that the NFL shouldn't attempt to make the game safer?

 

Shouldn't all industries continually make reasonable efforts to make the working conditions of all employees safer? Especially when the consequences of non-action are great?

 

 

 

 

 

[mrags]

I do agree that the ge can and should be made safer. I also font agree with helmet to helmet hits just because some defensive idiot wants to make a highlight reel (James Harrison -cough, cough).

Althought at the end of the day it's up to the players to decide they want to go back into the game. My guess is that the players wanted back into the game just as much as the coaches and doctors were telling them to put thier helmet back on for the next play.

I'm just saying it's time to take responsibility for your own actions. These Players aren't kids anymore bthier parents aren't telling them what to do or not to do. Bill Cosby said it once "if you eat shrimp and your face blows up, you learn not to eat those shrimp again".

Like I said, I agree the game can get smarter and safer but if the players make up thier own minds to allow it not to be safe it's pointless anyway. In the end, they need to decide if the game is for them or not.

 

As for the players from the past, they might not have known about the serious risks of concussions as the players do now but they can still decide if it's right for them or not. Goes back to the shrimp thing, if you get hit and you feel funny, regardless if someone is telling you you'll be fine, if you don't think you should play, don't play. Goes right back to my point that i'd bet my yearly pay that MOST of these guys wanted to go back into the game. Like Zach Thomas said, if he had a choice to fo it all over again, he'd do it in a heartbeat.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's a complex issue and then you have to view it from a legal standpoint as well as a moral/ethical standpoint.

 

The legal part will ultimately take care of itself. Morally it's a grey area.

 

You're a corrections officer… a pretty high risk job.

 

I'm a construction worker which is not the safest job in the world.

 

I know in my career that I've been exposed to gasses (especially after lunch), crystalline silica, asbestos, and microscopic fiberglass strands. I know there's a good chance that I'll have reduced lung function in my old age. I accept that knowingly. Concrete dust, sheet rock dust, insulation dust… I breathe these things every day.

 

At the same time, I found out about these risks from my industry. I was educated to these hazards by my employers who had lawyers who informed them that they needed to make us aware of risks and measures to reduce those risks. I wear personal protective equipment supplied to me by my employer. The company does this to protect itself from litigation in the near term and in the far term. Whether they care about as as humans (doubtful) is irrelevant.

 

It's too bad the NFL tried pretending for more than a decade that there wasn't a problem. Thank goodness Goodell has had the legal and maybe even the moral sense to bring the NFL out of the dark ages on this issue. Hopefully he's not too late.

Edited May 13, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Dirtbag]

I love how he says that if he had the chance to go back and do it all over again he'd do it in a heartbeat.

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=1&t=145916&qpid=2465890

At the end of the day, if current, past or future players are suffering from what the game has done or will do fo them, they can always chose a different profession or could have in the past. These guys play this game for a few reasons. Money, Fame, glory, cempetetive nature. Most of these guys wanted this and now they are going to complain what it's done to them? They knew the risks to this game when they took it up. If they didn't they were probably too blind from the money and fame in the first place. You don't see this type of thing in any other sport. Or too many other professions for that matter. This isn't working in a place that you found out later in life had unsafe working conditions. These players knew there was a possibility of injury. I'm sick of heating about all this stiluff to be honest with you.

 

a "possibility of injury" isn't accurate. guys who are in their forties and fifties have the brains of eighty year olds. growing up, i assumed that players probably would suffer from certain physical maladies after their careers ended -- busted knees, bad backs, etc. i had not clue about the mental damage done to these guys, reinforced by the nfl's repeated denials about the risk. playing a sport for a living isn't an "opt-in" for early onset alzheimers, depression, suicidal tendencies, etc.

 

just because they make a lot of money (today) doesn't mean we shouldn't feel any sympathy for the difficulties they experience after they've been cut from the team and we no longer care.

[mrags]

Bringing up Goddell starts getting me wonding about the state of the NFL. I don't remember completely but was Tagliabue considered to retire before his time? Could he have been noticing a trend and noticing the "$h|t hitting the fan" so to speak and got out while he could? Could he have been part of the problem?

 

One thing I can tell you, tur NFL is gping to change a lot and it's going to change real soon. That's IF it even has a place anymore in our sporting lives b

[mrags]

a "possibility of injury" isn't accurate. guys who are in their forties and fifties have the brains of eighty year olds. growing up, i assumed that players probably would suffer from certain physical maladies after their careers ended -- busted knees, bad backs, etc. i had not clue about the mental damage done to these guys, reinforced by the nfl's repeated denials about the risk. playing a sport for a living isn't an "opt-in" for early onset alzheimers, depression, suicidal tendencies, etc.

 

just because they make a lot of money (today) doesn't mean we shouldn't feel any sympathy for the difficulties they experience after they've been cut from the team and we no longer care.

I never said I don't feel any sympathy for these guys. It's a horrible thing. I just think no matter what someone would say to these guys they would have made thier decisions.

 

Easy way to put it:

do you smoke? I did for many years. I knew the chance of cancer in smokers is much higher. I knew my friends, family and doctors told me not to do it but I did it anyway because I wanted to. It's that simple for these guys. They played the game because they loved everything about it. How it made them feel, the money it made them, the fame it gave them. There's countless reasons why they play or want to play.

Just like SJBF said, I'm a corrections officers. I know that any day I walk into work I could leave with many more holes in my body than I already have, or not walk out at all. I understood this when I took the job and when I was training for my job they were quick to let us know the possibilities. And if they lied to us or didn't give us all the information you were quick to learn within the first few months of the job either on your own or from the other guys that have been thier years before you were there.

 

I dint have kids but if I ever have a little boy and he wants to play football I'm not going to tell him he can't. If he becomes good enough to be an NFL player and that's the path he chooses, I won't be talking him out of it.

[Dirtbag]

Just like SJBF said, I'm a corrections officers. I know that any day I walk into work I could leave with many more holes in my body than I already have, or not walk out at all. I understood this when I took the job and when I was training for my job they were quick to let us know the possibilities. And if they lied to us or didn't give us all the information you were quick to learn within the first few months of the job either on your own or from the other guys that have been thier years before you were there.

 

this is exactly my point.

 

by your own admission, you understood the risks when you took the job because they were quick to let you know the possibilities. you knew you might get hurt, but were ok with it. with cigarettes, you knew the health risks, yet chose to keep on smoking. the nfl has never done this -- and, in fact has done the opposite by denying the connection between prolonged contact to the head and depression, suicide, etc.

 

again, i agree with you regarding the physical injuries. they're to be expected. i just don't think that the players signed on for the long term, debilitating mental injuries.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Dirtbag

[boyst]

I dint have kids but if I ever have a little boy and he wants to play football I'm not going to tell him he can't. If he becomes good enough to be an NFL player and that's the path he chooses, I won't be talking him out of it.

Maybe it is just me personally, maybe it is just the way I am but I often wonder who I would have been without sports. It dictated my life from 6th grade when I got over asthma until I was in college and quit track. If I had children I would wonder what I would want them to be...

Would I put them in ballet at a young age and if they like it let them continue but let them use that as a tool for a later time playing football, wrestle, run track or something else? I mean, my family has always been big, all over 6' easily, well built, tough people with good genetics and a ahrd working attitude. Should I continue the pattern - put my it on my children to succeed at my guiding?

 

Or...

 

Would I let them be themselves and maybe taking show choir, arts and science fairs? Giving them books and paintrushes?

 

Why is it that I think no matter what they would do better with the second then the first?

[caracara]

This is such a difficult question, because it doesn't seem possible to keep players safe without spoiling something essential in the game. I do notice that a lot of these guys who are suffering from brain trauma are guys known and loved for playing with reckless abandon above and beyond the norm. It would be an interesting but almost impossible study to brain scan a cross section of players in High school and follow those who ended up in the show, scanning them along the way.

[uncle flap]

Should concussed players "recognize the risks" and determine whether they are fit to return to action?

 

Althought at the end of the day it's up to the players to decide they want to go back into the game. My guess is that the players wanted back into the game just as much as the coaches and doctors were telling them to put thier helmet back on for the next play.

I'm just saying it's time to take responsibility for your own actions.

 

 

IMO, when a player is woozy or has had his bell rung, that player is in no condition to decide whether or not he should continue to play. Any competitor is going to want tough if out. The dilemma here is that, by definition, someone who has suffered a concussion isn't thinking straight. Even some one who is educated in the risks regarding head injuries is not going to be able to properly weigh the consequences in the midst of having suffered one.

 

Speaking from experience - As a soccer player, I suffered a few concussions...

 

Now, before anyone wants to compare the violence in soccer to the NFL, I freely admit the NFL is more dangerous and there are many more frequent collisions involving the head. However, for those unfamiliar with soccer- we don't wear helmets. Head to head (read: skull to skull) collisions happen often enough, and I've both dealt and received elbows to the head battling for balls in the air. I've also been kicked in the head a few times over the years, and I once was knocked silly by a goalie punching me in the head when intending to punch the ball away. On that play, I don't know what was worse: the fist to my head or my head hitting the turf.

 

In all of those cases, despite seeing stars, I was raring to go. While some were merely bumps, some were diagnosed concussions. In all of those cases, I should have been pulled from the game, IMO. Due to the nature of soccer, even with a coach/manager calling you off the field, it is up to the player to take himself out of the game. Only the ref has the power to stop the play and make a player leave the field.

 

In all sports, but especially in the NFL, the ref/officiating crew should have the power to remove players from the game when they suspect a head injury has occurred. Furthermore, the NFL should employ its own independent crew of doctors to assess players during the game and then clear them to return.

[Toshiero]

Bringing up Goddell starts getting me wonding about the state of the NFL. I don't remember completely but was Tagliabue considered to retire before his time? Could he have been noticing a trend and noticing the "$h|t hitting the fan" so to speak and got out while he could? Could he have been part of the problem?

 

One thing I can tell you, tur NFL is gping to change a lot and it's going to change real soon. That's IF it even has a place anymore in our sporting lives b

 

Tags knew, teams knew and they ignored the evidence. These !@#$s were told for YEARS that concussions were doing serious damage, but the players are just gladiators. They are just there to make the TV money come streaming in and if they got injured then there are thousands willing to replace them.

 

Don't give me any BS about the NFL didn't know, they knew full well the extent of what was going on and nothing was done about it. I for one applaud Goddell, I hope he brings the hammer even harder. This sport is hard ass enough as is without the 'bounty' BS, without trying to make sports center for an illegal hit to someones head etc. Just to get into the league, strap it up and go at it makes you one tough SOB. Enforcing the rules, making it where post career when you can't make the NFL marketing machine anymore money, you have a chance to survive and maybe even thrive is how it should be.

 

The NFL is going to take it in the ass with these lawsuits and they should. I for one hope Tags somehow gets what is coming to him in all this.