Max997 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) and what if the Skins trade Cousins in a year or two for a second or even first round pick? to me this was purely a value pick and a way to get back an early pick in a year or two they have a good defense and signed a couple receivers so if RG3 works out they can compete for a playoff spot Edited April 30, 2012 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 and what if the Skins trade Cousins in a year or two for a second or even first round pick? to me this was purely a value pick and a way to get back an early pick in a year or two they have a good defense and signed a couple receivers so if RG3 works out they can compete for a playoff spot If that is what happens. But how much will Cousins be worth sitting on a bench 2-3 seasons? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) and what if the Skins trade Cousins in a year or two for a second or even first round pick? to me this was purely a value pick and a way to get back an early pick in a year or two It's a risky move though. It doesn't always work out for the best. Do you think the Patriots are gonna get a 3rd rounder for Mallett? If the Skins are trying to develop a young QB in RGIII, are there really gonna be enough snaps to develop and showcase Cousins? On top of that the Redskins have a ton of needs. Then you factor in that Cousins has zero future in Washington and there becomes more to argue against the move than for it, IMO. Edited April 30, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 RGIII has the label of being their franchise QB, lets not forget he stll has to play the game first! For all we know he can be another Jamarcus Russell? Until RGIII proves himself, hes just another player! Dont get me wrong he has all the tools. But still has much to prove! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) It's a risky move though. It doesn't always work out for the best. Do you think the Patriots are gonna get a 3rd rounder for Mallett? If the Skins are trying to develop a young QB in RGIII, are there really gonna be enough snaps to develop and showcase Cousins? On top of that the Redskins have a ton of needs. Then you factor in that Cousins has zero future in Washington and there becomes more to argue against the move than for it, IMO. was there a future for Schaub in Atlanta? this is not something new, teams do this all the time every pick doesnt have to be used for need...nothing wrong with a value based pick and the skins dont have as many needs as you think Edited April 30, 2012 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoName Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 let's not over react because the skins used "a 4th round pick" on a qb. You all act like that 4th round pick would have netted them a pro bowler. If kirk counsins is as good as advertised, the skins will get a 1st rounder when they trade him in 2 or 3 years. To the point about Shanahan, they guy can coach offensive football. Say what you want about him being a head coach/gm but as far as offensive football the guy is up there with the best that are currently coaching. The way he would script the first 15 or so calls at the beginning of games during the 90s was good stuff. When the Bills lost out on Shanny I was so upset. I remember when the Bills announced they were going to hire Gailey, I almost threw up. Then after a few days, I started to warm up to the idea a bit. The more and more I thought about it, the more I started to warm up to it. Seeing him on the sideline with the playchart and always talking to the qb made me feel comfortable compared to the hands off coaches we had in he past. I wouldnt trade Gailey for Shanney at all. Keep this in mind though, Gailey is entering into the last year of his contract. He may very well be on the hot seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 and what if the Skins trade Cousins in a year or two for a second or even first round pick? to me this was purely a value pick and a way to get back an early pick in a year or two they have a good defense and signed a couple receivers so if RG3 works out they can compete for a playoff spot How exactly is Cousins going to improve his value on that team over the next 2-3 years? Showing how well he holds a clipboard? He doesn't even have a veteran starter to learn under. I think you argue just to argue -- when you're a team that just came off a 5-11 season, you don't (or shouldn't) have the luxury of taking a "value pick" at a position you don't need, rather than continuing to fill holes on your roster. To my original point -- what has Shanahan done to suggest he would have been the better choice in Buffalo, and which of these two teams is in a better position to become very good, soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) and what if the Skins trade Cousins in a year or two for a second or even first round pick? to me this was purely a value pick and a way to get back an early pick in a year or two they have a good defense and signed a couple receivers so if RG3 works out they can compete for a playoff spot It's a risky move though. It doesn't always work out for the best. Do you think the Patriots are gonna get a 3rd rounder for Mallett? If the Skins are trying to develop a young QB in RGIII, are there really gonna be enough snaps to develop and showcase Cousins? On top of that the Redskins have a ton of needs. Then you factor in that Cousins has zero future in Washington and there becomes more to argue against the move than for it, IMO. was there a future for Schaub in Atlanta? this is not something new, teams do this all the time every pick doesnt have to be used for need...nothing wrong with a value based pick and the skins dont have as many needs as you think Max… I just pointed out that this "strategy" doesn't always work. I stated good reasons why I thought it was a bad move by the Skins in this particular case. No one said it was a "new" strategy. No one said every pick has to be used for "need." The practice of drafting a developmental QB by the Skins with that pick is what's being debated, not the general idea of drafting a developmental QB. As I already said once, it's not a fail safe strategy, there are risks involved. Besides my Mallett example (the Cheatriots*** were shopping him before the draft after picking him 74th overall last year) how did it work out when the Packers selected Brian Brohm? It doesn't always work and this particular case looks like a bad move for all parties, IMO. Edited May 1, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoName Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 How exactly is Cousins going to improve his value on that team over the next 2-3 years? Showing how well he holds a clipboard? He doesn't even have a veteran starter to learn under. I think you argue just to argue -- when you're a team that just came off a 5-11 season, you don't (or shouldn't) have the luxury of taking a "value pick" at a position you don't need, rather than continuing to fill holes on your roster. To my original point -- what has Shanahan done to suggest he would have been the better choice in Buffalo, and which of these two teams is in a better position to become very good, soon? Do you know what Matt Schaub, Rob Johnson, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, etc etc all have in common? They WERE backups to established quarterbacks that ended up being a starter elsewhere and given a big contract. Kirk Cousins will follow the same path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Do you know what Matt Schaub, Rob Johnson, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, etc etc all have in common? They WERE backups to established quarterbacks that ended up being a starter elsewhere and given a big contract. Kirk Cousins will follow the same path. Cousins was taken in the 4th. Kevin Kolb was a 2nd, Brohm was a 2nd, Mallet a 3rd, Schaub was a 3rd, Rob Johnson was a 4th, so they're in the ballpark as far as Cousins is concerned. Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel were both 7th rounders which is not the same as spending a higher round pick on a developmental QB. I think that's a slightly different conversation. More to my original point, we're talking about Cousins in the context of RGIII who is also a young quarterback. Who are the young QBs who were developed alongside another young QB? We were NOT talking about developing a young guy alongside an established veteran. We were talking about the difficulties in developing and then showcasing a young quarterback for a future trade when the same team is trying to develop a different young quarterback. Edited May 1, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Do you know what Matt Schaub, Rob Johnson, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, etc etc all have in common? They WERE backups to established quarterbacks that ended up being a starter elsewhere and given a big contract. Kirk Cousins will follow the same path. And RGIII is not an established QB. You want to devote 100% of your resources to developing your prize pick. Typically a veteran backup has been the way to go. Good luck Shanny, don't let your ego hit you in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I see Shanny as another free agent bust for skins, giving the guy anything he wants (in this case makin him Hghest paid coach and letting him hire his son to drain more money out skins) and getting nothing in return from day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Totally agree on Cowher. How many AFC Championships can u lose at home before you are called a fraud? His SB victory was a gift from the refs. Tomlin has done just as well. Cowher was not bad and he seemed to be consistently good, but he was never a great coach. LeBaeu was the the main difference maker. Too bad he chose Cincinnati as his HC opportunity. And we could have had him locked up if not for the stupidity to make his a "Assistant Coach" instead of the Defensive Coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Do you know what Matt Schaub, Rob Johnson, Matt Flynn, Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, etc etc all have in common? They WERE backups to established quarterbacks that ended up being a starter elsewhere and given a big contract. Kirk Cousins will follow the same path. And what established QB will Cousins learn his trade under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I admit that I was jelous of the skins when they got Shannahan & McNabb but now I see that we are better off. Whew, Thanks Buddy Let's Go Buffalo! ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The only thing that can be said about the Redskins right now is they have their franchise QB in RG3. That being said I can't wait to watch Fitz with a healthy O Line and a defense that will actually force some three and outs. Mmmm. I think, like St Louis with Bradford, the Redskins will be a good chance to observe the impact of the "get your franchise QB first, no matter what it costs" strategy that many here argue so passionately the Bills MUST employ to avoid futility. Time will tell. I wouldn't count the Redskins out, but the drafting of Cousins does puzzle me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Where are the naysayers now? Where are the idiots who were chucking flaming handfuls of poo when we passed on Shanny, or when we weren't good enough for Cowher? I can't help but notice a certain roster of characters has been suspiciously absent since Super Mario hopped on board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Shanny thinks he can 'spend' his way out of crappiness. Perfect coach for the Redskins. Why not?? He's playing with that big headed, dumba*s Snyder's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree that I'm glad he's not here. I supported bringing him in because (a) we were lost in the wilderness and could've used a dose of legitimacy and (b) despite his pedestrian resume post-Elway/TD, he is a Super Bowl champion coach and longtime winner. But the warts were present... But I disagree that the Cousins pick was foolish. It was (like ALL draft picks).....a gamble! The Skins emptied their high round clip for the next few years for RGIII. Yes, they could have selected a different position at #102 and maybe that player would contribute more over the next 2-3 years. But, as others pointed out, they are obviously hoping to parlay Cousins into a future, higher draft pick. It's not unreasonable and I think Cousins' good qualities (winner, great leader, good accuracy) make him the type of candidate for this scenario. I don't think you need some "established veteran QB" to make this play out (remind me exactly was Schaub learning from Mike "I didn't watch film" Vick). All Cousins needs to do (and of course it's crucial) is develop a good reputation and play well when he gets the chance. And should RGIII get hurt/falter in the regular season, all it might take is one good game (or half) to make Cousins' stock soar. It's a risk and I wouldn't bet on it paying off. But I also wouldn't bet on a 4th round DT or OL becoming a meaningful contributor. Cousins is at worst a safety valve should RGIII tear an ACL or pull and Akili Smith and at best he gets them back into the early part of the draft in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Mike Shanahan is an ordinary coach. I'd argue Bill Cowher was too. Perhaps. It's definitely arguable. But without Cowher, we very likely would not have Chan Gailey, it was Cowher's very strong recommendation of Chan to Nix that led to Gailey's hiring. So it's great that Nix considered him. And Nix, whom the vast majority of posters here including myself have great confidence in, chose Cowher over Gailey, and very likely wanted Shanahan bad, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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