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K.Rivers LB traded to giants for 5th round pick

sharebear

By sharebear
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CBD RFA

CBD

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nfl.com this guy is actually good I can't beleive they only got a 5th

He was highly touted coming out of college, but hasn't really done much since being drafted and didn't play at all last year. Speaks to a bigger issue that 43 OLB isn't a highly productive enough position to draft at the top of the 1st round.

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Cash Veteran

Cash

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For all you "we need to draft a LB in the first round" people, be forewarned: This is what happens when LBs who aren't pass-rushers go high in the draft. There's occasionally a Jerod Mayo or Patrick Willis, but the much more likely scenario is an Aaron Curry, Keith Rivers, AJ Hawk, etc. All decent players, but all eminently replaceable and not necessarily worth what they make. The new rookie salary structure has helped that last problem somewhat, but the biggest change salary-wise was for the top 5 picks.

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Billsrhody RFA

Billsrhody

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For all you "we need to draft a LB in the first round" people, be forewarned: This is what happens when LBs who aren't pass-rushers go high in the draft. There's occasionally a Jerod Mayo or Patrick Willis, but the much more likely scenario is an Aaron Curry, Keith Rivers, AJ Hawk, etc. All decent players, but all eminently replaceable and not necessarily worth what they make. The new rookie salary structure has helped that last problem somewhat, but the biggest change salary-wise was for the top 5 picks.

 

You can say the same exact thing for every position drafted in the first round.. that argument is meaningless.

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CBD RFA

CBD

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You can say the same exact thing for every position drafted in the first round.. that argument is meaningless.

No you can't, even Mayo and Willis don't really apply in the scenario because they're ILBs on their teams. The argument is that the production you get from an OLB in a non pass rushing role isn't enough to warrant the high pick.

Edited by Carey Bender
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Cash Veteran

Cash

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You can say the same exact thing for every position drafted in the first round.. that argument is meaningless.

There are busts at every position, but you'll be hard-pressed to find a first-round DE, pass-rushing LB, CB, DT, WR, TE, OT, or QB who turned into a good player, but was put on the trade block anyways. If you're going to spend a top 15 or so pick on an interior O-lineman, LB who doesn't get after the QB, or safety, you'd better be sure he's going to develop into not just an okay starter but an elite player.

 

Another aspect, which is specific to the LB position: In today's NFL, your third CB usually plays more snaps than your second LB, unless that LB plays DE on passing downs. I don't think it's wise to spend high first-round picks on defensive players who play about half of the defensive snaps.

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Billsrhody RFA

Billsrhody

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No you can't, even Mayo and Willis don't really apply in the scenario because they're ILBs on their teams. The argument is that the production you get from an OLB in a non pass rushing role isn't enough to warrant the high pick.

 

Well an OLB in a 43 is essentially an ILB in a 34. So you can include Mayo and Willis. Add to that list Brian Cushing, Lawrence Timmons, John Beason (I'm sure there are more past 2008) and you have a solid list of the best young linebackers in the league.

 

Of course there are going to be some busts... but you can say that about any position in the first round.

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....lybob Veteran

....lybob

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I wouldn't say the guy has to be a pass rusher but I would say he has to be a big play maker- tackles for losses, sacks, forced fumbles, interceptions- one of the reasons I was interested in Mercilus was he had 9 forced fumbles to go along with all his sacks, I don't know if it's a skill that translates to the NFL though

 

a high number of tackles are ok but I'm not spending a first or second on tackles down the field

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Estro Veteran

Estro

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I thought the Giants didn't need good linebackers for their defense? Or at least that's what the anti-Kuechly crowd keeps saying.

 

What's your definition of a "good" LB? 35 starts, 186 total tackles, 2 sacks, and 2 interceptions in 4 seasons doesn't define good to me.

I'd actually argue this only reinforces the Giants philosophy about not using major resources on their LB corps. Taking a chance on an injury prone LB with a 5th round draft choice is just the type of investment you'd expect the Giants to make in an OLB, rather than spending a top 10 pick on one in the draft, as you argue the Bills should do.

 

The point isn't that the Giants don't want good LB's, they just aren't going to use major resources (high draft picks and a lot of money) on acquiring them. Those high picks will be used on DE/DT 1st, and CB/S 2nd. I expect the Bills to follow a similar philosophy when it comes to fortifying our defense.

Edited by Estro
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Geno Smith's Arm Veteran

Geno Smith's Arm

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What's your definition of a "good" LB? 35 starts, 186 total tackles, 2 sacks, and 2 interceptions in 4 seasons doesn't define good to me.

I'd actually argue this only reinforces the Giants philosophy about not using major resources on their LB corps. Taking a chance on an injury prone LB with a 5th round draft choice is just the type of investment you'd expect the Giants to make in an OLB, rather than spending a top 10 pick on one in the draft, as you argue the Bills should do.

 

The point isn't that the Giants don't want good LB's, they just aren't going to use major resources (high draft picks and a lot of money) on acquiring them. Those high picks will be used on DE/DT 1st, and CB/S 2nd. I expect the Bills to follow a similar philosophy when it comes to fortifying our defense.

 

I haven't argued that they should select Kuechly! I just want them to get the BPA, if that is Kuechly, and there isn't a comparable talent at a position of greater need, I'm fine with with it. I mainly don't want them to whiff on the pick. I think there will be good value at linebacker in the 3rd and 4th rounds!

 

I also don't think they should ape every aspect of the Giants, like they are the only defense that can beat the Pats. The Pats are tweaking their offense all the time, and there is more than one way to get pressure on the QB. Having good, talented LB's won't hurt this defense.

Edited by Matthews' Bag
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Estro Veteran

Estro

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I haven't argued that they should select Kuechly! I just want them to get the BPA, if that is Kuechly, and there isn't a comparable talent at a position of greater need, I'm fine with with it. I mainly don't want them to whiff on the pick. I think there will be good value at linebacker in the 3rd and 4th rounds!

 

I also don't think they should ape every aspect of the Giants, like they are the only defense that can beat the Pats. The Pats are tweaking their offense all the time, and there is more than one way to get pressure on the QB. Having good, talented LB's won't hurt this defense.

 

 

Nah I hear you. I would actually love if they could somehow get LaVonte David on this roster as I think he'd be a huge asset to our D. No matter what happens I'm sure we'll both have faith in Nix/Whaley and the entire organizations plan. For the first time in a long time, I really think this team is being built the right way. The QB postion remains the biggest ?, and unfortuantely that's probably the postion that means the most.

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