KOKBILLS Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Just interested in who the Board favors out of these 3 only...Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Kuechly = STUD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Fleener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Kuechly=SOFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Kuechly=SOFT Really...Not sure I agree...I know Mayock doesn't... NFL.com write-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Really...Not sure I agree...I know Mayock doesn't... NFL.com write-up That write-up doesn't really refute the argument that Keuchly is not a physical player. Nowhere is he described as a physical player and the criticisms that he's basically another Poz/Fletcher with inflated tackle numbers downfield is never really refuted… the only counterpoint to that criticism is that Keuchly had 12 tackles for loss. That's not the same as saying he's a physical, dominating linebacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'd be happy with Gilmore......happy.....Gilmore.....Happy Gilmore?! BAhahahaa!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That write-up doesn't really refute the argument that Keuchly is not a physical player. Nowhere is he described as a physical player and the criticisms that he's basically another Poz/Fletcher with inflated tackle numbers downfield is never really refuted… the only counterpoint to that criticism is that Keuchly had 12 tackles for loss. That's not the same as saying he's a physical, dominating linebacker. I really want to know who came up with this "tackle downfield" line about fletcher and poz. I think its a laughable description cause when they leave here the other teams love them playing ILB for them and they continue to rack up tackles. I mean who came up with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'd be happy with Gilmore......happy.....Gilmore.....Happy Gilmore?! BAhahahaa!! Better Gilmore than a Waterboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 That write-up doesn't really refute the argument that Keuchly is not a physical player. Nowhere is he described as a physical player and the criticisms that he's basically another Poz/Fletcher with inflated tackle numbers downfield is never really refuted… the only counterpoint to that criticism is that Keuchly had 12 tackles for loss. That's not the same as saying he's a physical, dominating linebacker. Oh I don't think he's necessarily a physically dominating LB by any means...But I don't think he's a soft kitty either... What is pretty much indisputable is the fact that he has great instincts in the Passing game (Mayock says the best he's ever seen coming out), and he makes a ton of tackles... I'm not sold on Kuechly being the guy at #10 either...And I'm not saying he's the next Ray-Ray...But I definitely don't think he's real soft...And I think he's a better player than Poz is, was, and will be, without playing a Down in the NFL...I really mean that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Mayock positively GLOWS about Gilmore. I think he has the most upside of the 3, and he's excellent now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Oh I don't think he's necessarily a physically dominating LB by any means...But I don't think he's a soft kitty either... What is pretty much indisputable is the fact that he has great instincts in the Passing game (Mayock says the best he's ever seen coming out), and he makes a ton of tackles... I'm not sold on Kuechly being the guy at #10 either...And I'm not saying he's the next Ray-Ray...But I definitely don't think he's real soft...And I think he's a better player than Poz is, was, and will be, without playing a Down in the NFL...I really mean that... AJ Hawk got similar raves when he was coming out in 2006. He was taken 5th overall. Patrick Willis was taken 11th overall. Keith Rivers and Jerrod Mayo were taken 9 and 10 in the 2008 draft. Rolando McClain was 8th overall. In the last 5 years, these 5 are the only inside linebackers taken in the top 11 picks. IMO, if you're not getting a pass rushing linebacker in the high first round, you're not getting the value. Only Willis has proven to be worth his draft position… Mayo maybe. I know people think Keuchly is a different player than these guys because of his athleticism and instincts. Maybe he will be the next Urlacher or Conlan. I guess it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) AJ Hawk got similar raves when he was coming out in 2006. He was taken 5th overall. Patrick Willis was taken 11th overall. Keith Rivers and Jerrod Mayo were taken 9 and 10 in the 2008 draft. Rolando McClain was 8th overall. In the last 5 years, these 5 are the only inside linebackers taken in the top 11 picks. IMO, if you're not getting a pass rushing linebacker in the high first round, you're not getting the value. Only Willis has proven to be worth his draft position… Mayo maybe. I know people think Keuchly is a different player than these guys because of his athleticism and instincts. Maybe he will be the next Urlacher or Conlan. I guess it's possible. Not that it changes your analysis, but in the instances of Willis, Mayo and McClain all three were drafted as MLBs weren't they? Or I suppose 34 ILB could be viewed as an equivalent to a 43 LB. Aaron Curry is another example of a 43 OLB being drafted high, perhaps the position doesn't have the impact necessary to warrant such a high pick? Edited March 28, 2012 by Carey Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 AJ Hawk got similar raves when he was coming out in 2006. He was taken 5th overall. Patrick Willis was taken 11th overall. Keith Rivers and Jerrod Mayo were taken 9 and 10 in the 2008 draft. Rolando McClain was 8th overall. In the last 5 years, these 5 are the only inside linebackers taken in the top 11 picks. IMO, if you're not getting a pass rushing linebacker in the high first round, you're not getting the value. Only Willis has proven to be worth his draft position… Mayo maybe. I know people think Keuchly is a different player than these guys because of his athleticism and instincts. Maybe he will be the next Urlacher or Conlan. I guess it's possible. Urlacher would be nice if The Bills pick him!!! But I hear what you're saying...And I would worry about the same thing...I think a lot of my confidence in Kuechly comes from Mayocks evaluation...I like what I see of him when I've watched him, but Mayock is over-the-top about the Kid...He literally says Kuechly has some of the best instincts he's ever seen coming out...That really says a lot from a guy who can throw around negatives as much as he does positives...And one other thing about Mayock...He will call a Player out in a heartbeat if he does not think the Player is physical...Especially a LB...Have you heard his take on Zach Brown? But he does not say any of those same things about Kuechly...Which tells me Kuechly is not afraid of contact, or initiating it...I guess we'll see in time...I do agree about the Pass Rush thing...I would like to see how he handles Pass Rush on the Outside of a 4-3...Because I think he would start out at OLB in The Bills D...It certainly would be a VERY interesting Pick would it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Gilmore, a big physical corner, above avg ball skills, not afraid of contact, and stays healthy. Pair him with williams and an improving rogers and we got our top 3 corners for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Not that it changes your analysis, but in the instances of Willis, Mayo and McClain all three were drafted as MLBs weren't they? Or I suppose 34 ILB could be viewed as an equivalent to a 43 LB. Aaron Curry is another example of a 43 OLB being drafted high, perhaps the position doesn't have the impact necessary to warrant such a high pick? That is how I feel. I know it's conventional thinking and I don't like thinking of myself as a conventional thinker but I do feel this way about "OLBs vs ILBs" just as I buy into the "tackle not guard" argument. If Keuchly turned out to be as good as Shane Conlan (8th overall) I might be in favor of drafting him. If he turned out as good as Urlacher I'd definitely want to draft him. We have no way of knowing how he'll turn out of course so to me, the overall preponderance of evidence says not to draft a MLB/ILB in the top 10. Urlacher would be nice if The Bills pick him!!! But I hear what you're saying...And I would worry about the same thing...I think a lot of my confidence in Kuechly comes from Mayocks evaluation...I like what I see of him when I've watched him, but Mayock is over-the-top about the Kid...He literally says Kuechly has some of the best instincts he's ever seen coming out...That really says a lot from a guy who can throw around negatives as much as he does positives...And one other thing about Mayock...He will call a Player out in a heartbeat if he does not think the Player is physical...Especially a LB...Have you heard his take on Zach Brown? But he does not say any of those same things about Kuechly...Which tells me Kuechly is not afraid of contact, or initiating it...I guess we'll see in time...I do agree about the Pass Rush thing...I would like to see how he handles Pass Rush on the Outside of a 4-3...Because I think he would start out at OLB in The Bills D...It certainly would be a VERY interesting Pick would it not? Yeah I was high on Zach Brown at first but saw some horrible video of him (I think against Missouri) and you could tell that he shied from contact and was not truly physical at heart. Yes, Keuchly would be an interesting pick and I guess I really have to watch more video on him. edit: But what little I've seen of Keuchly, he doesn't seem to bring a lot of force. He doesn't "lay the wood." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) That is how I feel. I know it's conventional thinking and I don't like thinking of myself as a conventional thinker but I do feel this way about "OLBs vs ILBs" just as I buy into the "tackle not guard" argument. If Keuchly turned out to be as good as Shane Conlan (8th overall) I might be in favor of drafting him. If he turned out as good as Urlacher I'd definitely want to draft him. We have no way of knowing how he'll turn out of course so to me, the overall preponderance of evidence says not to draft a MLB/ILB in the top 10. Yeah I was high on Zach Brown at first but saw some horrible video of him (I think against Missouri) and you could tell that he shied from contact and was not truly physical at heart. Yes, Keuchly would be an interesting pick and I guess I really have to watch more video on him. edit: But what little I've seen of Keuchly, he doesn't seem to bring a lot of force. He doesn't "lay the wood." He's not a whopping-type hitter...No question...But I do think he's a very sure Tackler...And that's a lost art in the NFL...Missed tackles have KILLED The Bills the last few years...And Kuechly does not miss a lot of tackles... Floyd running away with the Poll btw... Edited March 28, 2012 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Gilmore, a big physical corner, above avg ball skills, not afraid of contact, and stays healthy. Pair him with williams and an improving rogers and we got our top 3 corners for the foreseeable future. Lots of Gilmore talk on NFL Network tonight...He seems to be a big-time riser right now...Just about everybody asked said he should go higher than Kirkpatrick...They were raving about Gilmore's toughness and willingness to mix it up...He's a heck of a good athlete...Great size for a CB...And he stayed healthy...Definitely a good Prospect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverOutNick Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Lots of Gilmore talk on NFL Network tonight...He seems to be a big-time riser right now...Just about everybody asked said he should go higher than Kirkpatrick...They were raving about Gilmore's toughness and willingness to mix it up...He's a heck of a good athlete...Great size for a CB...And he stayed healthy...Definitely a good Prospect... Where was this a week ago...Mayock says it and then everyone else jumps on board. I've always been against Kirkpatrick, and am actually ok with Gilmore if Nix thinks he's BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Please give me whoever Nix takes. That is who I want! Go Bills. P.S. I voted for Gilmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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