Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I see a lot of talk on here about Stevie not being a number 1WR, what is a number1 wideout then? I'm asking because I believe the term is relative and cannot be defined completely by one or more attribute. Is it size, speed or hands? Andre Reed was no bigger or faster than Johnson is. Reed also dropped a few from time to time and made mental errors in key spots(penalty in the SB anyone?) Is it maturity? Reed and Moulds made some bonehead moves in their days and were at times known to be disruptive in the locker rooms. I'm not saying Andre or Eric weren't #1 WRs just trying to figure out why Johnson isn't according to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The first quality is he doesn't play for the Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I see a lot of talk on here about Stevie not being a number 1WR, what is a number1 wideout then? I'm asking because I believe the term is relative and cannot be defined completely by one or more attribute. Is it size, speed or hands? Andre Reed was no bigger or faster than Johnson is. Reed also dropped a few from time to time and made mental errors in key spots(penalty in the SB anyone?) Is it maturity? Reed and Moulds made some bonehead moves in their days and were at times known to be disruptive in the locker rooms. I'm not saying Andre or Eric weren't #1 WRs just trying to figure out why Johnson isn't according to some. A #1 receiver is your first option in the passing game, which is relative to whatever other players you have. The way it is thrown around here just refers to relative dollar value. There aren't a lot of transcendent WR's in the league. It's not like Jerry Rice, TO and Randy Moss are all out there. Calvin Johnson is in a physical class by himself. Welker is a pinball machine in terms of receptions. Otherwise, it's kind of hard to separate them, there are just lots and lots of really productive receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 A #1 receiver is your first option in the passing game, which is relative to whatever other players you have. The way it is thrown around here just refers to relative dollar value. There aren't a lot of transcendent WR's in the league. It's not like Jerry Rice, TO and Randy Moss are all out there. Calvin Johnson is in a physical class by himself. Welker is a pinball machine in terms of receptions. Otherwise, it's kind of hard to separate them, there are just lots and lots of really productive receivers. That is a long outdated assumption. The pre-snap read of the defense against the offensive play that is called dictates the progression. When the blitz is read properly the go to guy is typically the receiver that is singled up which is rarely your best receiver and usually in the slot, although that too has it's exceptions. #1 receivers have more to do with how a fan ranks the importance of that player than how the game is actually played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 First of all Stevie Johnson is a #1 WR he's just not in the top half of #1 WRs but he is in the top half of the bottom half of #1 WRs so that's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 First of all Stevie Johnson is a #1 WR he's just not in the top half of #1 WRs but he is in the top half of the bottom half of #1 WRs so that's something. Please name 15 teams that have 1 WR better than SJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Please name 15 teams that have 1 WR better than SJ. New England (welker) Miami (Marshall) Jets (Santonio Holmes) Pittsburgh (Wallace) Cincinnati (Green) Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) Titans (Kenny Britt) Texans (Andre Johnson) Chargers (Vincent Jackson) Chiefs (Bowe) ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) Eagles (DeSean Jackson) Packers (Greg Lewis) Lions (Calvin Johnson) Vikings (Harvin) Atlanta (Roddy White) Saints (Colston) Cardinals (Fitzgerald) ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. Edited March 5, 2012 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I still say Stevie is a number one. He isn't top in the top 15, but I would say top 20. With that said, with Stevie as our best wr and Fitz our qb, we really need more receiver help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 New England (welker) Miami (Marshall) Jets (Santonio Holmes) Pittsburgh (Wallace) Cincinnati (Green) Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) Titans (Kenny Britt) Texans (Andre Johnson) Chargers (Vincent Jackson) Chiefs (Bowe) ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) Eagles (DeSean Jackson) Packers (Greg Lewis) Lions (Calvin Johnson) Vikings (Harvin) Atlanta (Roddy White) Saints (Colston) Cardinals (Fitzgerald) ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. Harvin, D. Jax, Britt, Wayne did not perform at Stevies level without question but keep that haterade flowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 New England (welker) Miami (Marshall) Jets (Santonio Holmes) Pittsburgh (Wallace) Cincinnati (Green) Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) Titans (Kenny Britt) Texans (Andre Johnson) Chargers (Vincent Jackson) Chiefs (Bowe) ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) Eagles (DeSean Jackson) Packers (Greg Lewis) Lions (Calvin Johnson) Vikings (Harvin) Atlanta (Roddy White) Saints (Colston) Cardinals (Fitzgerald) ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. Stevie is in the middle of the pack. He is worth the money if you have the cap room to spend. Losing him with Easley being a complete unknown means they would have to spend even more for Vincent Jackson or Colston, or trade for DeSean Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 New England (welker) AGREE Miami (Marshall) AGREE Jets (Santonio Holmes) NOT SO MUCH Pittsburgh (Wallace) AGREE Cincinnati (Green) AGREE Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) NO Titans (Kenny Britt) NO. THIS GUY SEEMS LESS WISE THAN STEVIE. Texans (Andre Johnson) AGREE Chargers (Vincent Jackson) AGREE Chiefs (Bowe) AGREE ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) HAVEN'T SEEN ENOUGH OF ROBINSON. DEZ CAN'T LEARN THE PLAYBOOK. Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) NO.. CRUZ IS TOP 5. Eagles (DeSean Jackson) AGREE Packers (Greg Lewis) AGREE Lions (Calvin Johnson) AGREE Vikings (Harvin) AGREE Atlanta (Roddy White) AGREE BUT CLOSE Saints (Colston) AGREE Cardinals (Fitzgerald) AGREE ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. Good job sticking your neck out. Disagree with a few. I wish Stevie had a mentor because I think he could be top shelf (almost in the Cruz range). Wide Receivers that aren't Divas are hard to come by. Unfortunately, there are more DeSean Jacksons and Santonio Holmes types than Colstons and Andre Johnsons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 New England (welker) Miami (Marshall) Jets (Santonio Holmes) Pittsburgh (Wallace) Cincinnati (Green) Colts (Wayne (maybe close due to wayne's age) Titans (Kenny Britt) Texans (Andre Johnson) Chargers (Vincent Jackson) Chiefs (Bowe) ----- That's 10 so far in the AFC Cowboys (Bryant, Robinson (closer one)) Giants (Nicks, Cruz (kinda a stevie clone, but its not just a better team. He has better speed and maturity)) Eagles (DeSean Jackson) Packers (Greg Lewis) Lions (Calvin Johnson) Vikings (Harvin) Atlanta (Roddy White) Saints (Colston) Cardinals (Fitzgerald) ----- That's 19 teams. You can maybe debate 1 or 2. To test it ask yourself "would I trade Stevie, straight up, for that guy?" Or, even better, ask yourself "If Stevie gets traded to this team, will he be the #1 receiver?" To me, a #1 receiver is someone who can be counted upon (not just "able to") to get open against zone or man, make the big catch downfield or across the middle in the big situations, and makes the opponent want to double-team him even in today's wide-open passing game. Maybe someone you design your offense around because he's that good (welker). Stevie is not that. A #1 does not mean "best on the team." I dont think anyone would argue that Jacksonville has a #1 receiver. I think you mean Greg Jennings and you forgot Steve smith, Brandon Lloyd, and anquan Boldin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Harvin, D. Jax, Britt, Wayne did not perform at Stevies level without question but keep that haterade flowing. Translation: Okay Maddenboy, you got me. But I still wanna believe what I wanna believe. You wouldnt take Harvin, Jackson, or Britt straight up in trade? You think Stevie would instantly be the #1 receiver in Minnesota, Philly, Tennessee or Indy? I think you mean Greg Jennings and you forgot Steve smith, Brandon Lloyd, and anquan Boldin True. I dont even know who the hell Greg Lewis is. I was going stream-of-consciousness there in making my list. Seemed pretty easy to rattle off a list without research, so I just jumped right in. I left Steve smith off. He doesnt get open consistently anymore, and I wouldnt trade stevie Johnson str8 up for him. I LOVE steve smith for sure, he's the Allen Iverson of the NFL, but he's past his prime. B. Lloyd maybe, maybe not. Anquan to me isnt a #1 but you're probably right that I'd trade str8 up for him, and design plays for him. A "man among boys" which is part of what a #1 should be, for sure. Edited March 5, 2012 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Translation: Okay Maddenboy, you got me. But I still wanna believe what I wanna believe. You wouldnt take Harvin, Jackson, or Britt straight up in trade? You think Stevie would instantly be the #1 receiver in Minnesota, Philly, Tennessee or Indy? Percy Harvin hasn't had a 1000 yard season or scored as many TD's in a single season as Johnson has. All of this with better QB's(Favre, McNabb, Ponder) and being drafted #22 overall, so there is an expectation with him to preform. Which I don't think he has lived up to. He has more receptions but with less yards per attempt. So for me, personally, I'd take Johnson over Harvin in a heartbeat. Jackson can be an elite player, but it seems as though the injuries are pilling up for him(especially the concussion). His body almost seems like its not going to hold up. So that one to me is a toss up. Johnson is more durable, so I would take him. Kenny Britt, in 3 years, hasn't put up the yardage or TD's Johnson has(although he was injured this year). Through the first 3 games of the this season they both had identical stats. I'd still take Johnson. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cincinnati Kid Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The first quality is he doesn't play for the Bills HAHA! If you read this board regularly, then that is the truest statement in this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 someone who can put up good numbers against darrelle revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 someone who can put up good numbers against darrelle revis. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Maybe I was harsh saying Stevie was in the top half of the bottom half- maybe he's in the bottom half of the top half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I see a lot of talk on here about Stevie not being a number 1WR, what is a number1 wideout then? I'm asking because I believe the term is relative and cannot be defined completely by one or more attribute. Is it size, speed or hands? Andre Reed was no bigger or faster than Johnson is. Reed also dropped a few from time to time and made mental errors in key spots(penalty in the SB anyone?) Is it maturity? Reed and Moulds made some bonehead moves in their days and were at times known to be disruptive in the locker rooms. I'm not saying Andre or Eric weren't #1 WRs just trying to figure out why Johnson isn't according to some. Easy. Go to nfl.com take a look at all pass receivers and sort by TDs, sort by yards, sort by 1st down conversions, etc. See where Stevie ranks on that list. Take a look at the rest of the nfl and list the teams where SJ would be the number one target over that teams best WR(s) or TE's. By the number SJ wouldn't be a #1 on a lot of teams. Don't get me wrong, without question we need to keep this guy but is SJ and Fitz any better than Lee Evans and JP Losman? Was Lee a #1 with Losman? If he wasn't then the numbers would say SJ isn't a #1 with Edwards/Fitz. Edited March 5, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 according to this board...any players that puts up numbers like Stevie Johnson but doesnt actually want to be a Bill.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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