Bills Going 4/3 defense

[Justice]

I love the fact that we're switching back to the 43, for some many reasons. The main reason is may finally take advantage of Dareus and Williams' strengths, which is rushing the passer from the middle and collapsing the line. The next reason that it's simply too hard to find guys that fit in a 34 defense. Most colleges play out of a 4-3, therefore we have more guys to choose from. Kelsay is better off as a 43 end and during passing downs we can substitute Kelsay for Merriman. Now if we can just draft Whitney Mercilus, we should have the makings of a formidable front four.

 

With Merriman, Williams, Dareus and Mercilus on the line and Moats(on passing downs), Sheppard and Barnett at LBer, we should be able to put plenty of pressure on the quarterback making our entire defense better. I fully expect about 45 sacks, next year, if this were to go down like this. Can't wait!!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Add a healthy Williams and another legit NFL DE to the mix, and the team is well set up. The most important part of the 40 front is dominant DT's, and thankfully the Bills have 2 of them. Dude not to come across like a d*ck(I mean that seriously btw), but do you consider things that things change as seasons move forward? Players get healthy,overmatched coordinators get fired,free agents and draftees get added to the mix, etc,etc?

I've seen this episode before. Some changes are announced, some new names come in, fans like you get giddy as school girls, and then the Bills miss the playoffs again. Change should not be so easily confused with making significant progress towards winning a championship.

[Cash]

I saw Zach Brown listed at 6'2" 231 lb.

 

I think he'd be perfect, especially if we can get Merriman back or a FA pass rusher, and get another pass rush DE in the 2nd or 3rd.

 

Having an athletic cover LB who can cover guys like Gronk would be huge in our division. It would be one of the few times we got ahead of the trend.

I think Turbosrrgood got Zach Brown mixed up with Zach Brown, which is pretty understandable. I assumed Turbosrrgood got his numbers right and wrote my above reaction based on that, but I've edited my previous post to delete that part. With Dareus and Williams up front, I don't care if our linebackers are a little on the small side, but I still say that you can't draft a part-time player at #10 overall. And with Barnett starting at WLB and nickel LB, the starting SLB will almost definitely be just a part-time player. Truth be told, I think nickel CB is more important than starting SLB.

[mob16151]

I've seen this episode before. Some changes are announced, some new names come in, fans like you get giddy as school girls, and then the Bills miss the playoffs again. Change should not be so easily confused with making significant progress towards winning a championship.

 

Whats better change, or flogging a dead horse? ( The dead horse is Edwards and his defensive schemes?)

 

As to giddy as a school girl, I don't know what posts of mine you've been reading.

Edited January 31, 2012 by mob16151

[San-O]

Whats better change, or flogging a dead horse? ( The dead horse is Edwards and his defensive schemes?)

 

As to giddy as a school girl, I don't know what posts of mine you've been reading.

 

 

I'm excited! To NOT see Kelsay stumbling around in space trying to play OLB. Not sure about giddy.

 

Seriously, I've seen him out there looking like he's wearing skates or something. He's best on the LDE spot if the Bills

insist on putting him on the field. If the defense does impove this year, which it must, all will have a much better perspective

of where the weak spots actually exist.

 

I give the Bills two (2) more wins next year: 1 for getting rid of Edwards, and 1 for going with the 4-3 and drafting D again.

 

[Justice]

Just finished reading the entire thread and I would like to chime in on some of the things that were said.

 

Switching to the 34 defense wasn't a mistake. The execution, or lack thereof, was the problem. We could have drafted much better, but we didn't. Brooks Reed and Justin Houston should have been the picks, last year, and Terrence Cody over Troup in 2010 would have been the wiser pick, as well. Those moves would have put us right on schedule to be a very good 3-4 defense.

 

Now the Bills want to move to the 43. Two drafts were wasted on 34 personnel, but it is what it is. At least we made the right decision to switch back to a 43 and didn't waste another draft.

 

You have to build your team around its greatest strengths, which is Kyle and Dareus. Those two can form the strongest DT combo in the NFL. We didn't have the OLBers to run a 34, so what does it hurt to switch now? Either way, we had holes to fill.

Edited January 31, 2012 by NoJustice

[BADOLBILZ]

Well, in his interview Chan stated the only thing he could say for certain was that Sheppard was going to be the starting MLB. Which means Barnett will slide over to OLB (he played a fair amount of OLB toward the second half of last season).

 

So you can definitely pencil in:

 

DL: ?????, Williams, Dareus, Kelsey

LB: Barnett, Sheppard, ?????

 

They can pencil Sheppard in but he is a lesser player in a 4-3, IMO. Not a sideline-to-sideline guy. Not that instinctive either. It's a much bigger assignment and he didn't really set the league on fire as it was.

 

As for Kelsay, the guy turns 33 this year. He started breaking down last year. It's foolish to expect him to anchor LDE for you. And the #1 reason many fans want the Bills back in a 4-3 is Kyle Williams. The guy basically missed last season. It is not a given he will ever get back to his 2010 form.

[BillsVet]

Just finished reading the entire thread and I would like to chime in on some of the things that were said.

 

Switching to the 34 defense wasn't a mistake. The execution, or lack thereof, was the problem. We could have drafted much better, but we didn't. Brooks Reed and Justin Houston should have been the picks, last year, and Terrence Cody over Troup in 2010 would have been the wiser pick, as well. Those moves would have put us right on schedule to be a very good 3-4 defense.

 

Now the Bills want to move to the 43. Two drafts were wasted on 34 personnel, but it is what it is. At least we made the right decision to switch back to a 43 and didn't waste another draft.

 

You have to build your team around its greatest strengths, which is Kyle and Dareus. Those two can form the strongest DT combo in the NFL. We didn't have the OLBers to run a 34, so what does it hurt to switch now? Either way, we had holes to fill.

 

If the Bills couldn't draft to fit a 30 front, how can they do it for a 40 front? Buffalo has a systemic problem of drafting poorly (across many regimes) and then refusing to spend in UFA to make up for it.

[CosmicBills]

It says the former. I do love the rhetoric used in the latter however. "TWO YEARS," as if switching a defensive scheme is something often accomplished in 2 weeks -

 

That's the whole point. You can't switch your entire scheme like a light switch. It takes time, it takes a plan, and it takes the wherewithal ($ and guts) to do that correctly.

 

This regime came in with promises to be "football men" who know the game and most importantly, HAVE A PLAN.

 

Now, either they are switching plans (after a very short period of time) because either they no longer believe in it (which makes me nervous about the merits of their next plan) or because they were incapable of executing it (due to incompetence or financial restrictions -- take your pick).

 

THAT is why this is alarming news. I've made no bones that since Nix took Spiller I smelled trouble. This isn't meant to be a "I told you so" post at all, I'm just saying this in the effort of full disclosure. I am NOT impartial here. I have an opinion about Nix's abilities and so far he has done nothing to dispel those doubts for me.

 

If anything, this team is in worse shape than it was when Nix took over. At best it's exactly the same as far as the amount of talent on the roster.

 

And now he's saying it's time to start over ... again. Only this time we don't get the promise of a new GM. Instead we are rebuilding (again) with a guy who's already showed he doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

 

...and "something everyone's been saying since we got here" which of course no one has been saying. In fact, there were people rejoicing to "give Jauron's small, fast, dome defense the boot" all over the forums.

 

You're combining two different trains of thought. There were plenty of people who said switching to the 3-4 would require a massive (if not complete) overhaul of the roster on the defensive side of the ball. Plenty of those same people rushed to Nix's defense after the first season saying, "give it time" despite all the raised eyebrows over questionable draft picks like Troupe.

 

Everyone was happy to get rid of the Tampa 2. Every 4-3 defense isn't a Tampa 2. There are plenty of other ways to run a 4-3 and it's alarming that the coaches waited until 2 drafts, 2 free agency periods to determine that the talent on their roster was best suited for a DIFFERENT defense than the one they were building to.

 

So on one hand you are tired of the "same 'ol, same 'ol" at One Bills Drive, and on the other hand you don't want them to attempt to change. Which is it?

 

Oh, you have no idea how much I want OBD to change. I say blow the entire thing up and start over. And by that I mean at the ownership level. This is not a competitive team. It hasn't been a competitive team in over 12 years. TWELVE! At some point you have to wake up.

 

Questioning your team's ability to compete doesn't question your fanhood.

 

Don't worry, you don't have to answer. The fact that you watched them miss the playoffs for 12 years doesn't qualify you as a football expert, only a whiner. Seriously, get the sand out of your vagina.

 

I've never claimed to be a football expert. But maybe I missed the point of a message board ABOUT football.

 

And I'll have you know, my vagina brings all the boys to the yard. And they LOVE it. Sand and all (something about extra friction). You would too, I promise.

Edited February 1, 2012 by tgreg99

[Justice]

@tgreg The Bills just drafted Marcell Dareus last year. Maybe they saw that this kid has way more to offer as a 43 DT than an end on the 34 and that he was worth blowing up the plan for.

[spartacus]

several things...the recent pass happy offenses have made teams who normally play 3-4 techniques--play 4-3 techniques and vice versa..

 

Plus, this Bills team tried to install the 3-4, but the 4-3 caters to the players we already have...

 

players we already have ???

 

 

Nix has spent 3 years drafting and signing guys to play in a 3-4 - and all these guys cater to a 4-3?

 

time to start that 5 year re-build all over again

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spartacus]

Florence would be fine if the opposing QB didn't have eternity to deliver the football. Yes he makes a few mistakes, but the Bills could do a lot worse than Florence (McKelvin). Florence also makes his share of very good plays. Rogers showed flashes, mostly as a KR. I don't know that I would consider him a solid starter when we have only seen him in very limited nickle/dime coverage. He has potential at least.

 

Williams is a stud though, he is a lock to start next year.

 

With Wanny running a 4-3 defense, we will certainly look a heck of a lot different on D than we did last year...Whether that means success or not remains to be seen.

 

so what did Wanny do all of last year other than steal a pay check?

[San-O]

So, how many more years will i t take now to get the 4-3 working?

 

I can hear it now: be patient. It takes time. We need to get the right guys and it takes a while to gel.

[mob16151]

So, how many more years will i t take now to get the 4-3 working?

 

I can hear it now: be patient. It takes time. We need to get the right guys and it takes a while to gel.

 

Why is it going to take time for Byrd,Dareus,Williams,Williams,Wilson,Rodgers,Dareus,Sheppard, and Barnett time to gel?

[Justice]

players we already have ???

 

 

Nix has spent 3 years drafting and signing guys to play in a 3-4 - and all these guys cater to a 4-3?

 

time to start that 5 year re-build all over again

 

Since the vast majority of college programs run a 43 defense, most kids are asked to switch positions in the NFL in order to play in a 34. DE's are typically converted to OLBers. In Buffalo's case, Danny Batten and Arthur Moats both played DE in college, so they already have experience there. So yeah, we are more suited to run the 43.

[LABills08]

Big time draft implications. As bad as our defense has been, I have to imagine this indicates the Bills are at least somewhat willing to go offense with #10. Especially if Stevie walks (as I've long thought he will). Anyone who think the Bills are going to sign V. Jackson is insane, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised with WR/OT at 10.

 

But, otherwise, this move looks like a precursor to Upshaw. He'll be able to play both strong side and DE, which are the two biggest needs on defense right now. And we all know the Bills love these hybrid guys. And I feel a little better about their chances to shore up the unit with 1 or 2 picks. At 4-3 we have a lot of depth on the D-line. The DT rotation is already set with Williams (cross your fingers he comes back healthy), Dareus, Heard and Troup (given he comes back healthy). As for DE's, we have Kelsay, Carrington, Johnson, Edwards. Definitely needs to be upgraded, but at the very least, these guys are solid against the run which is a big asset when you have Dareus and Williams in the middle. I also think that Sheppard is a better fit for a 4-3. A few posters have questioned that, but really? He has a nose for the ball and tackles well. His coverage needs improvement, but he's much better suited to attack in a 4-3. And I think Barnett can survive on the weakside (where he'll likely split time with Batten), but certain TE's will eat him alive. As for strong side, an upgrade is definitely needed unless Merriman recovers (he's not going to). Moats isn't good enough for that role. That's why I think Upshaw will be the guy.

 

Also, the larger point here is what the hell are the Bills doing switching their defense again? Sure, its the right move, but I think Gailey and Nix should be questioned for their approach. Lets not forget that switching to the 3-4 was a decision both of them made. And Edwards was hired in response to Gailey picking the defensive scheme. Its not as though Edwards was hired and then he pushed for the 3-4; the decision had been already made. Just my opinion, but I feel Gailey needs to feel a little more heat for last season.

[mob16151]

Just a random entirely subjective breakdown of our defense.

 

Quality players

Byrd

K.Williams

Barnett

Dareus

 

Guys with good potential

Sheppard

A.Williams

J.Rodgers

Searcy

 

You could do worse

Wilson

Florence

 

To me, there's some pieces there.

[BillsVet]

So, how many more years will i t take now to get the 4-3 working?

 

I can hear it now: be patient. It takes time. We need to get the right guys and it takes a while to gel.

 

There's another built-in excuse if 2012 doesn't turn into a playoff season. Add in injuries and the small market status and homers are all set.

 

Since the vast majority of college programs run a 43 defense, most kids are asked to switch positions in the NFL in order to play in a 34. DE's are typically converted to OLBers. In Buffalo's case, Danny Batten and Arthur Moats both played DE in college, so they already have experience there. So yeah, we are more suited to run the 43.

 

Moats and Batten come from I-AA programs (or whatever they call it now) and couldn't get on the field for the Bills even when they went to a four man rush.

 

The point is, they have NO ONE who is capable of getting to the QB. Kelsay turns 33 during the season, Carrington is strictly a base end, and the RDE is a black hole. And not for one moment does anyone bank on Williams or Dareus being the rushers. And then, they'll need a SAM who can cover, which isn't on the roster.

 

I'm just glad the scouts and personnel types have been looking for 40 front talent since they hit the road last April or so.

[HuSeYiN1978]

Florence would be fine if the opposing QB didn't have eternity to deliver the football. Yes he makes a few mistakes, but the Bills could do a lot worse than Florence (McKelvin). Florence also makes his share of very good plays. Rogers showed flashes, mostly as a KR. I don't know that I would consider him a solid starter when we have only seen him in very limited nickle/dime coverage. He has potential at least.

 

Williams is a stud though, he is a lock to start next year.

 

With Wanny running a 4-3 defense, we will certainly look a heck of a lot different on D than we did last year...Whether that means success or not remains to be seen.

 

Yea, I'm sticking to my guns on this whole Florence thing. I don't like him at all. He gets beat and then tries to hold. When he gets a pass caught on him he looks around at the ref and says the receiver pushed off. I don't like him and I never said I wanted McKelvin AT ALL. I'm also done with McKelvin. Let's call him a bust and move on.

 

Of course I would love to be proven wrong cuz I highly doubt Gailey and staff will get rid of either of them being that we're short in that position so, let's see what the future holds.

[Justice]

Moats and Batten come from I-AA programs (or whatever they call it now) and couldn't get on the field for the Bills even when they went to a four man rush.

 

The point is, they have NO ONE who is capable of getting to the QB. Kelsay turns 33 during the season, Carrington is strictly a base end, and the RDE is a black hole. And not for one moment does anyone bank on Williams or Dareus being the rushers. And then, they'll need a SAM who can cover, which isn't on the roster.

 

I'm just glad the scouts and personnel types have been looking for 40 front talent since they hit the road last April or so.

 

We didn't have anyone to get to the QB before the change. So what's your point?