DC Tom Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You assumed my point though. It wouldn't matter if it was the 2008 CRA enacted one week before the first sub-prime loan was issued. My point is that the CRA just doesn't have the teeth to facilitate the behavior. The meltdown was the result of affirmative behavior, not responsive behavior. All that other crap is subterfuge. People like throwing "CRA" around as if it represents some convenient explanation for bad lending practices. That would be true, if every loan denied to a member of protected classification were scrutinized, or if they could be subjected to disparate impact claims 82-352 style, or if CRA mandated lending criteria for traditionally under-represented communities, ****...even if there were finable offenses. You know what CRA gets ya, some bureaucratic scrutiny around merger time, and a few frivolous ACORN class-action suits that will be met with a directed verdict and a Rule 11 ass-whoopin. If only people knew the law... It is probably most accurate to say that the CRA and subprime lending were both a symptom of the government initiative over the past 30 or so years to promote low-income home ownership. Lenders just took advantage of the climate (created in no small part by relaxing the standards for Fannie and Freddie). Blaming the CRA exclusively is retarded. It's a symptom, not a cause. Like blaming a fever for killing somebody sick with ebola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It is probably most accurate to say that the CRA and subprime lending were both a symptom of the government initiative over the past 30 or so years to promote low-income home ownership. Lenders just took advantage of the climate (created in no small part by relaxing the standards for Fannie and Freddie). Blaming the CRA exclusively is retarded. It's a symptom, not a cause. Like blaming a fever for killing somebody sick with ebola. Concise and perfect. Agreed 10000% Would you agree that the housing collapse was the catalyst for the recession? Would you agree that lenders were lending to people who never should have gotten a loan? I'm not just talking low income but speculators. Did you view the video from post 11? Yes x 3. We only differ on one key point. The CRA wasn't some sword that scared lending institutions into submission and reactionary lending. I can't articulate it any better than DCTom did in his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 We only differ on one key point. The CRA wasn't some sword that scared lending institutions into submission and reactionary lending. Sometimes it was - I know of a few cases, second-hand, where it was used to brow-beat lenders into lending to unqualified minorities because they were minorities, even though they couldn't remotely afford the loan. But not often, and it was an egregious abuse of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Sometimes it was - I know of a few cases, second-hand, where it was used to brow-beat lenders into lending to unqualified minorities because they were minorities, even though they couldn't remotely afford the loan. But not often, and it was an egregious abuse of the law. Or lenders just fudged the data to meet any minimums, as they did with income data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Or lenders just fudged the data to meet any minimums, as they did with income data. They didn't need to fudge income data on these types of loans, since many didn't require income verifications as the real estate was sufficient collateral. Plenty of blame to go around, including the Basel central bank confab that assumed all risk was created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Sometimes it was - I know of a few cases, second-hand, where it was used to brow-beat lenders into lending to unqualified minorities because they were minorities, even though they couldn't remotely afford the loan. But not often, and it was an egregious abuse of the law. Egregious indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Egregious indeed. What did you think of the video in post #11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) And GG, this is not an erudite conversation either. Are you saying these two guys weren't separated at birth: Edited January 26, 2012 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The "Rev." Jesse Jackson can go !@#$ himself. The End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Or lenders just fudged the data to meet any minimums, as they did with income data. http://spectator.org/archives/2008/10/29/acorns-food-stamp-mortgages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 http://spectator.org/archives/2008/10/29/acorns-food-stamp-mortgages Food stamps as a source of income/downpayment for a house? I can not possibly imagine that to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 http://spectator.org/archives/2008/10/29/acorns-food-stamp-mortgages Inaccurate to the point of stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Food stamps as a source of income/downpayment for a house? I can not possibly imagine that to be true. Very true. I'm in the middle of reading a book called "The Great American Bank Robbery". This is mentioned in the book. Just Googled "Liar Loans" and chuckled at a NYT article among others painting Countrywide as some sort of evil predatory corportation. All the time it should be HUD, activist groups and the Justice Department(Janet Reno ugh) that shoulder the blame. They blackmailed and strong armed banks to push these bad loans.If they didn't they would be publicly smeared as racist. Outlines how the housing collapse began with Clinton and his leftist redistribute-rs enhancement of the CRA. Book is so frustrating I've almost gave up on it several times now. Book is pretty detailed and backed up with lots of data. A glaring example of bureaucrats with a cause that have no real knowledge of the business they are regulating. I guess it wouldn't matter if they did. Edited January 26, 2012 by Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very true. I'm in the middle of reading a book called "The Great American Bank Robbery". Outlines how the housing collapse began with Clinton and his leftist redistribute-rs enhancement of the CRA. Book is so frustrating I've almost gave up on it several times now. Book is pretty detailed and backed up with lots of data. A glaring example of bureaucrats with a cause that have no real knowledge of the business they are regulating. I guess it wouldn't matter if they did. Description alone makes this book a crock of smoldering pile. If you're really interested in facts instead of piles of crap, this is the book to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very true. I'm in the middle of reading a book called "The Great American Bank Robbery". Outlines how the housing collapse began with Clinton and his leftist redistribute-rs enhancement of the CRA. Book is so frustrating I've almost gave up on it several times now. Book is pretty detailed and backed up with lots of data. A glaring example of bureaucrats with a cause that have no real knowledge of the business they are regulating. I guess it wouldn't matter if they did. As a rule, every time I've seen any sort of "history" book subtitled with some form of "The Unauthorized Report," or "The Untold Story," or "The True Story of...," or some such sensationalism, I have NEVER gone wrong avoiding it. It's the kind of thing editors do to make the book more appealing to the simplistic...because they know it's such a crappy book it'll never sell on its merits. Used bookstores are littered with this type of schlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Food stamps as a source of income/downpayment for a house? I can not possibly imagine that to be true. Hell, you can use food stamps as a source of income to get a car loan even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) As a rule, every time I've seen any sort of "history" book subtitled with some form of "The Unauthorized Report," or "The Untold Story," or "The True Story of...," or some such sensationalism, I have NEVER gone wrong avoiding it. It's the kind of thing editors do to make the book more appealing to the simplistic...because they know it's such a crappy book it'll never sell on its merits. Used bookstores are littered with this type of schlock. You could be right. I've never been involved in the banking industry. Just trying to educate myself a little on the subject Tom. The author seems credible enough. "Paul Sperry is a Washington-based investigative journalist and Hoover Institution media fellow who has broken a number of national stories on the war on terrorism. His articles have appeared in the New York Post, Investor's Business Daily, The Wall Street Journal, Houston Chronicle, Sacramento Bee, The American Conservative, Reason, The American Spectator, WorldNetDaily, Dallas Magazine, and other publications. Making regular appearances on Fox News, Sinclair Broadcasting Group, and other national media outlets, Sperry's reports on national security issues have been picked up by virtually every major news agency in the world. His book Crude Politics was cited by Investigative Reporters and Editors Inc. as a top investigative book of 2003." Description alone makes this book a crock of smoldering pile. If you're really interested in facts instead of piles of crap, this is the book to read. I like the look of this one GG. I just wish there was a Kindle version. Not sure if its fair to judge my book on the title alone though. Edited January 26, 2012 by Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I like the look of this one GG. I just wish there was a Kindle version. Not sure if its fair to judge my book on the title alone though. What, are you alergic to paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 "Paul Sperry is a Washington-based investigative journalist and Hoover Institution media fellow who has broken a number of national stories on the war on terrorism. His articles have appeared in the New York Post, Investor's Business Daily, The Wall Street Journal, Houston Chronicle, Sacramento Bee, The American Conservative, Reason, The American Spectator, WorldNetDaily, Dallas Magazine, and other publications. Making regular appearances on Fox News, Sinclair Broadcasting Group, and other national media outlets, Sperry's reports on national security issues have been picked up by virtually every major news agency in the world. His book Crude Politics was cited by Investigative Reporters and Editors Inc. as a top investigative book of 2003." Really? That bio sounds like the complete antithesis of "credible" to me. Just did some googling of the guy. He looks like a marginal crackpot - not Art Bell or Alex Jones level nuts, but he has been on Art Bell's show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 What, are you alergic to paper? Do most of my reading while working out. Kindle just works better while on a machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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