Tebow TD should have been called back!

[Adam]

Yeah, and they missed the Pittsburgh fumble on the lateral too.......Horribly officiated game. Tebow's facemask was pulled all game.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Yeah, and they missed the Pittsburgh fumble on the lateral too.......Horribly officiated game. Tebow's facemask was pulled all game.

 

 

Indeed it was, and this is where SJBF is really on to something.

 

The problem in any sport is that officials will be fallible. In football, that problem is magnified, since a minor infraction, if called, can invalidate a decisive play at any time, even if the infraction has no impact on the play itself (for a painful Bills example, how about the thown-in-a-fraction-of-a-second flag for delay of game against the Bills on 4th down in the Cincy playoff game in January 1982?) , just as a major infraction, if missed, can allow a decisive play to stand. I have no idea how to eradicate such dangers, but there it is.

[DrDawkinstein]

Yep.

 

You're definitely missing my point.

 

The point is that you don't arbitrarily decide to enforce or not enforce a rule that could determine the outcome of a game.

 

Yes there is a grey area but if you look at the photo this is a black and white case.

 

This was clearly an illegal formation and it was not called.

 

Would you be so charitable if this happened to our Bills?

 

They need to enforce this rule or remove it from the rule book.

 

edit: It has NOTHING to do with advantage or no advantage.

 

That's yet another reason why it's a bad rule.

 

oh oh oh, i get what you are saying now.

 

ehh, if you read the rule book, Holding is a very cut and dry rule as well, but we know that's not how it goes and as long as an OL is engaged inside on a DL, they can get away with whatever they want.

 

i'm sick of the ambiguity in reffing as well, but i dont see how this determines the outcome of a game. the TE didnt get open because he was a little farther back than he should have been. this rule isnt so much about that as much as it is preventing extreme illegal formations such as 5 OL, and 5 guys in the backfield with the QB. maybe the rule needs to be changed, but i think this is very much like a Speed Limit.

 

and I would be more pissed off if this was called on the Bills, than I would be if we were in the Steelers shoes.

[tennesseeboy]

I really reject this argument, Doc.

 

Hundreds of millions of dollars ride on the outcome of these games. And it's not only the financial aspect of things.

 

Think about The Music City Miracle… to me that was too close to call. I'm probably in the minority here but that's not my point.

 

Now imagine if it was a clear cut forward pass and that the refs missed the call.

 

Now imagine how an entire fan base, an entire city, the careers of players and coaches and everyone in the organization would be affected about being screwed by an extremely important non-call which decided a playoff game.

 

I think people are misunderstanding me.

 

It's not the reason Pittsburgh lost and I'm glad they lost.

 

But the casual approach to enforcement of this rule is very wrong.

 

 

 

 

Again disagree.

 

This is not like holding.

 

This type of infraction is like Too Many Men on the Field.

I don't see any difference. If the refs don't see it (holding, too many men on the field, illegal formation) and the play goes on, there isn't a review.

[RealityCheck]

I have seen this penalty called on the Bills at the worst time often enough to say this is BS. It should have been called back.

[Astrojanitor]

you play a game with humans and you are going to see mistakes--in fact that's part of the (sometime infuriating) fun. barely worth giving a second thought ever.

[Acantha]

Yep.

 

You're definitely missing my point.

 

The point is that you don't arbitrarily decide to enforce or not enforce a rule that could determine the outcome of a game.

 

Yes there is a grey area but if you look at the photo this is a black and white case.

 

This was clearly an illegal formation and it was not called.

 

Would you be so charitable if this happened to our Bills?

 

They need to enforce this rule or remove it from the rule book.

 

edit: It has NOTHING to do with advantage or no advantage.

 

That's yet another reason why it's a bad rule.

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. Small calls like this are missed all the time...this is no different. As far as I can tell this wasn't a "just give it to them" type of situation. The refs didn't decide not to call the penalty, they just didn't see it. Does that suck for Pitt? Sure, but as others have mentioned, that game (and every single other NFL game every played) is filled with mistaken calls. It's every bit as much a part of the game as the forward pass.

 

You keep using the "what if it were the Bills" argument and I find that to be completely off base. Fans of a particular team are obviously biased in their views, so why would that be a good measuring stick to determine fairness? I could maybe understand the question if this call favored the Bills in some way, but in this forum you have a neutral fan base. Exactly what you should be looking for.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Faustus

[Garranimal]

I guess they were so in awe of Tim Tebow they didn't notice Denver was in an illegal formation! Man, wouldn't you hate to be a Steelers fan right now?

 

PTR

 

 

Nice try....keep that Tebow vitriol coming.

 

Update....(I will try to find a link for you)

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello says the formation was legal. "This is a legal formation," he told NFL.com. "This should not have been flagged." It's not exactly an in-depth rules explanation, but it's definitive.

 

Heard the audio on the radio.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Garranimal

[dave mcbride]

And what would you say if the rule was enforced against the Bills and it cost them a touchdown and led to a defeat?

 

My point is that you have to call it every time or just get rid of the rule.

I'd say it was nitpicking and inconsequential. There are penalties on every play, and they usually aren't called. In the comeback game against the Oilers, a brutal and obvious defensive hold by Darryl Talley that was uncalled was directly responsible for Moon's final interception in OT. It's part of the game, and this is a truly minor infraction.

Edited January 11, 2012 by dave mcbride

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

A little off topic here, but I am gonna go on record stating that Big Ben will never

win another championship. Same thing for Michael Vick. No way the NFL will let it happen,

and have either one of them be the poster boy for the NFL.

-a suspected/accused serial rapist, and a convicted felon, are not what the NFL wants to promote.

They have latched on to Tebow for the time being, and when he is finally exposed, Fitz will become

their poster boy again, as long as he is producing and winning. He was the man early in the season,

and as soon as his performance and wins dropped off, they dropped him like a a bad Tebow pass.

 

They just need to stall a year or two until these RG3 types flow into the league.

 

Hi I am an nfl qb, working on my law degree in the off season, have a strong family background, oh and I am extremely well spoken plus a helluva football player.... Or tannenhill the aspiring orthopedic surgeon.

 

The game is changing. Now you need to be a super athlete plus acedemic all American. It's not ok to major in basket weaving and football. These players are smart and they are playing chess on the football field.

 

The next few rookie classes have all the poster children they can use.

[PromoTheRobot]

Nice try....keep that Tebow vitriol coming.

 

Update....(I will try to find a link for you)

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello says the formation was legal. "This is a legal formation," he told NFL.com. "This should not have been flagged." It's not exactly an in-depth rules explanation, but it's definitive.

 

Heard the audio on the radio.

Wow. Do you even know the definition of vitriol? Is this part of the anti-Christian discrimination rampant in the USA?

 

PTR

[Garranimal]

Wow. Do you even know the definition of vitriol? Is this part of the anti-Christian discrimination rampant in the USA?

 

PTR

uh yeah, do you?

 

"something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism. "

 

You are clearly as anti-Tebow as they come.....your post title doesn't say Broncos TD, it says Tebow TD which clearly indicates you are STILL trying to discredit the performance as somehow illegal. What else you got?

 

here you go....read it and weep (maybe gnash your teeth too)

 

Linky

Edited January 11, 2012 by Garranimal

[Ted William's frozen head]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_775981.html

Steelers dont' seem to care about the non-call. They are rightly more upset at how they played the game. They were severely out-coached,

Not really out coached. They have a big, fat quarterback with the brain of a watermelon whose ego got in the way......

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. Small calls like this are missed all the time...this is no different. As far as I can tell this wasn't a "just give it to them" type of situation. The refs didn't decide not to call the penalty, they just didn't see it. Does that suck for Pitt? Sure, but as others have mentioned, that game (and every single other NFL game every played) is filled with mistaken calls. It's every bit as much a part of the game as the forward pass.

 

You keep using the "what if it were the Bills" argument and I find that to be completely off base. Fans of a particular team are obviously biased in their views, so why would that be a good measuring stick to determine fairness? I could maybe understand the question if this call favored the Bills in some way, but in this forum you have a neutral fan base. Exactly what you should be looking for.

First let me say that I may indeed be making more of this than a reasonable person would. I don't think so but it's absolutely possible.

 

As far as what you've bolded, it's a small call if it's missed but it's potentially a huge call when it's made.

 

And that's the problem IMO… is that the application of the rule is arbitrary.

 

It's not being made an issue of because Pittsburgh didn't deserve to win and their fan base is pissed at the team, not the refs. Everyone on the Pittsburgh side is in shame and not in the mood to make an issue of this.

 

What I'm saying is if this call was made (not missed) against any team and it changed the result of a game, it would be a major issue.

 

 

 

 

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello says the formation was legal. "This is a legal formation," he told NFL.com. "This should not have been flagged." It's not exactly an in-depth rules explanation, but it's definitive.

All you have to do is read the rule which I posted upthread and look at the photo which is linked upthread to know that Aiello is wrong.

 

Rosario (the TE) is clearly too far back in the context of the written rule.

 

 

[Garranimal]

First let me say that I may indeed be making more of this than a reasonable person would. I don't think so but it's absolutely possible.

 

As far as what you've bolded, it's a small call if it's missed but it's potentially a huge call when it's made.

 

And that's the problem IMO… is that the application of the rule is arbitrary.

 

It's not being made an issue of because Pittsburgh didn't deserve to win and their fan base is pissed at the team, not the refs. Everyone on the Pittsburgh side is in shame and not in the mood to make an issue of this.

 

What I'm saying is if this call was made (not missed) against any team and it changed the result of a game, it would be a major issue.

 

 

 

 

 

All you have to do is read the rule which I posted upthread and look at the photo which is linked upthread to know that Aiello is wrong.

 

Rosario (the TE) is clearly too far back in the context of the written rule.

 

 

so out of curiosity, why harp on this missed call, but not the missed face masks or even the inadvertent whistle that was really a result of an official not correctly officiating the game? How is this different than the seemingly millions of missed calls that occur every single season....such as a hold that allows a QB an extra second to get off a pass that wins a game?

 

Lastly, so Greg Aiello is lying? or is he uninformed?

[PromoTheRobot]

uh yeah, do you?

 

"something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism. "

 

You are clearly as anti-Tebow as they come.....your post title doesn't say Broncos TD, it says Tebow TD which clearly indicates you are STILL trying to discredit the performance as somehow illegal. What else you got?

 

here you go....read it and weep (maybe gnash your teeth too)

 

Linky

So you know the meaning of vitriol, yet you take my thread to be vitriolic?

 

I'm sorry I don't worship Tim Tebow, or believe his victories are by divine intervention. But for this reason you color my intent as hostile? Not a word critical of Tebow. Not a critical word toward anyone! And you create controversy and invent hostility where none exists. I thought with our history of disappointments in Buffalo we would feel sympathy for Steeler fans.

 

All I did is post a story about a possibly blown call, and you turn it into a personal attack. I'm speechless but not surprised. After all that's how you play the victim card.

 

PTR

Edited January 11, 2012 by PromoTheRobot

[San Jose Bills Fan]

so out of curiosity, why harp on this missed call, but not the missed face masks or even the inadvertent whistle that was really a result of an official not correctly officiating the game? How is this different than the seemingly millions of missed calls that occur every single season....such as a hold that allows a QB an extra second to get off a pass that wins a game?

 

Lastly, so Greg Aiello is lying? or is he uninformed?

This entire thread is devoted to the call… thus the topic title. So no, I'm not harping on anything. I'm discussing it with people who disagree with me.

 

As for your question, one distinction (and now I'm repeating myself) is that there are grey areas with most calls but if you look at the rule and you look at the photo, this was not in a grey area. It was a missed call that should have been called.

 

As for Aiello's statement, I don't know. You'd have to ask him.

 

But if you read the rule posted upthread and look at the photo linked upthread, it was clearly an illegal formation.

 

edit: And to repeat myself again, with a Head Linesman and a Line Judge standing on the line of scrimmage on every play, an obvious violation like this shouldn't be overlooked. It's not like holding or that sort of penalty… it's more along the lines of Too Many Men on the Field.

Edited January 11, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[CardinalScotts]

Yeah, and they missed the Pittsburgh fumble on the lateral too.......Horribly officiated game. Tebow's facemask was pulled all game.

 

pretty much par for the course, we say they are human so don't worry about being in over your head as far as superior athletes and the speed of the game versus your ability level as an official and your age. They rarely retire - in his 30th year etc. Stop stop your 70 years old and can't see as well as your no glasses persona would indicate and your going to run with 23 year old elite athletes ? Really ? really ? - oh wait he's human so if you can't do the job don't worry about it

[Garranimal]

So you know the meaning of vitriol, yet you take my thread to be vitriolic?

 

I'm sorry I don't worship Tim Tebow, or believe his victories are by divine intervention. But for this reason you color my intent as hostile? Not a word critical of Tebow. Not a critical word toward anyone! And you create controversy and invent hostility where none exists. I thought with our history of disappointments in Buffalo we would feel sympathy for Steeler fans.

 

All I did is post a story about a possibly blown call, and you turn it into a personal attack. I'm speechless but not surprised. After all that's how you play the victim card.

 

PTR

wow, i would reply but your response is actually frightening in it's tone of persecution and religion ...which no one but you brought up and has no place in this discussion whatsoever.

 

Your history of anti-tebow/anti-christian sentiment is documented well on this board, so my "attack" as you call it was simply pointing out, you didn't mention the Broncos TD, but the Tebow TD.

 

"I have a question: Will attending the Denver game on Christmas Eve count as Midnight Mass?

 

PTR " yuk yuk...good one

 

"The Tebow era may be over. Cue the plagues of locust.

PTR " another gem

 

And clearly, you are not speechless.....ever.

 

But, if i misinterpreted the intent of your initial post, I apologize.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Garranimal

[pkwwjd]

It eyeballs that Rosario's front hand/helmet are about 1.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

 

I'm gonna look up the rule.

 

Section 18 Line of Scrimmage

 

Article 1 The Line of Scrimmage is the yard line (plane) passing through the forward point of the ball after it has been made ready for play. The term scrimmage line, or line, implies a play from scrimmage.

 

Article 2 A Player of Team A is on his line:

 

(a) when his shoulders face Team B's goal line, and

 

(b) if he is the snapper, no part of his body is beyond the line at the snap,

 

© if he is a non-snapper, his helmet must break the vertical plane that passes through the beltline of the snapper.

 

Note: Interlocking legs are permissible.

 

10Rule 3, Section 18, Article 3

 

A.R. 3.8 Offensive A1 assumes a three-point stance with his shoulders facing defensive B's goal line. One hand is on the ground and it is on or not more than one foot behind his line. Neither of his feet nor the other hand is within one foot of his line. Ruling: A1 is legally on his line.

 

http://www.mediafire…8oc9b6wkn5etnpe

 

So Rosario is clearly not on the line of scrimmage and a penalty should have been called.

By strict interpretation, the LT is not on the line either ... That wouldn't ever get called