Stevie Johnson: After the INT

[Paup 1995MVP]

Thumbs down.... SJ is a monster if Fitz ever looks like an nfl qb again....thumbs down to all the Stevie and spiller doubters...

 

 

Ain't worth a nickel ? Tighten up w the comments. SJ is a stud.... Let's get a qb who can get him the ball.

Stevie is an excellent receiver. He is not top 5 in the league because he is just not a physical specimen (Eric Moulds type build) But the guy can play. The Bills would be stupid not to keep him, and they should go out and get a big receiver to play opposite him. But why for the life of me would Stevie being an unrestricted free agent want to stay with the Bills, especially if Fitzie is throwing him the ball (if you can call it that)?

 

The guy gets open. And Fitzie almost never hits him in stride. The Bills should have made him and Fred their first priority. Instead they give a new contract to a career mediocre backup QB, and to a very average rt. tackle.

 

Can't wait for this season to end. Isn't it amazing how Gailey and Nix took a pretty marginal roster talent wise, and made it much worse? I honestly did not think it was possible to run things worse than Jauron did. But Gailey and Nix have done just that!! Unbelieveable.

[Best Player Available]

Yeah, i'm sure Whitner is crushed that he's starting on a 10-3 team that is headed to the playoffs. the Bills sure got the best of him in that deal.

 

You can't get a great #1 WR for $9 million per season. The top guys are making 8 figures per season. That puts Stevie in the second tier of top WRs, at 8-9 million per season, which is about his talent level.

Well then I would pony up the extra 2 mil and get a "top Guy" instead of a second tier guy. Makes sense no.

 

As for Donte I haven't heard his name and I have lived in the bay area for 32 years. Sure its nice too make the playoffs. They would have done it without him. They signed a couple of safety's last year Lil Donte being one of them. In the end Kudos to Donte for making way less money but in the postseason. He strikes me as a player who would prefer the money though.

[TDRupp]

SJ was terribly off balance as a result of trying to come back to the ball. He stumbled and had NO chance of doing anything. That play to me was 100% on Fitz. The dude just can't throw the long ball with any accuracy anymore.

 

I agree 100% about SJ being off balance not not able to do much to prevent the Int. The arm failing was looking for a Flag for unnecessary roughness or defenseless player after the Safety popped him a little late and he confronted him. CB already out of bounds with the ball.

 

Nothing Stevie did wrong on that pick. I want him back too.

 

 

That said, I am wondering if he did not run a good hard slant that Vontae got earlier when the Safety blitzed on causing Fitz to unload quickly onto CB arms.

[Ramius]

Well then I would pony up the extra 2 mil and get a "top Guy" instead of a second tier guy. Makes sense no.

 

As for Donte I haven't heard his name and I have lived in the bay area for 32 years. Sure its nice too make the playoffs. They would have done it without him. They signed a couple of safety's last year Lil Donte being one of them. In the end Kudos to Donte for making way less money but in the postseason. He strikes me as a player who would prefer the money though.

 

What "top guys" in the Fitzgerald/Megatron/Andre Johnson will be available? None. The potentially available FAs out there are at roughly the same tier Stevie is. We're much better served keeping Stevie (even if we have to overpay a bit) and then finding another complementary WR. That will improve the team much faster than letting Stevie go and trying to replace him. Unless you're excited about another year With Donald "garbage" Jones as #2.

[Best Player Available]

What "top guys" in the Fitzgerald/Megatron/Andre Johnson will be available? None. The potentially available FAs out there are at roughly the same tier Stevie is. We're much better served keeping Stevie (even if we have to overpay a bit) and then finding another complementary WR. That will improve the team much faster than letting Stevie go and trying to replace him. Unless you're excited about another year With Donald "garbage" Jones as #2.

Look, I don't hate the guy. In fact I was quite impressed with his effort all year, being hurt and all. Yesterday he played an "A" game in my book. I'm just trying to point out that these 2nd tier players on a 2nd tier team (at best) need to accept reality. So if he gets 9 mil a year more power to him. I doubt the Bills will give it to him. My issue is his hands. His ability to be clutch. You don't teach that stuff. You either have it or you don't. He has shown he does not have it. His numbers on our team are good. I think if he hits free agency, he will be judged on a lot of things, including the showboating, and his history of epic drops. Not just poorly thrown balls buy his quarterback. Bring him back on a long term 5 year deal, he will have a lot more opprotunitys for his entertainment style in Buffalo population 270,000. than in say the bay area population 6 million. Imagine Stevie on a New Jersey team and losing games with his drops under pressure, they would toast him. here fans with my view are in the minority. Bills football has regressed so much that we worship a @2 receiver with questionable skills. Man I want to get past that.

 

 

I agree past Johnson we have no one. Boy do I agree with that One more point on the Ralph is cheap arguement. While Ralph is more than cheap on coaches, etc. We have several teams with MORE cap space than us. We just seem to pay big bucks for the wrong players. Dockery, Walker, Fitz, Kelsay, etc. why add a tier 2 receiver to the list. I believe ralph will have to spend to the cap in 2013. That should be interesting.

[RkFast]

Look, I don't hate the guy. In fact I was quite impressed with his effort all year, being hurt and all. Yesterday he played an "A" game in my book. I'm just trying to point out that these 2nd tier players on a 2nd tier team (at best) need to accept reality. So if he gets 9 mil a year more power to him. I doubt the Bills will give it to him. My issue is his hands. His ability to be clutch. You don't teach that stuff. You either have it or you don't. He has shown he does not have it. His numbers on our team are good. I think if he hits free agency, he will be judged on a lot of things, including the showboating, and his history of epic drops. Not just poorly thrown balls buy his quarterback. Bring him back on a long term 5 year deal, he will have a lot more opprotunitys for his entertainment style in Buffalo population 270,000. than in say the bay area population 6 million. Imagine Stevie on a New Jersey team and losing games with his drops under pressure, they would toast him. here fans with my view are in the minority. Bills football has regressed so much that we worship a @2 receiver with questionable skills. Man I want to get past that.

 

 

I agree past Johnson we have no one. Boy do I agree with that One more point on the Ralph is cheap arguement. While Ralph is more than cheap on coaches, etc. We have several teams with MORE cap space than us. We just seem to pay big bucks for the wrong players. Dockery, Walker, Fitz, Kelsay, etc. why add a tier 2 receiver to the list. I believe ralph will have to spend to the cap in 2013. That should be interesting.

 

Perfectly stated. The guy has got talent...hes just doesnt have "it"....that winning attitude and killer instinct that is just ingrained in an elite athlete.

[Billy in 4C]

So to clarify your view. It would take a #1 pick to replace a #7(looks like we outsmarted 31 teams there) pick we drafted and groomed. As you remember in my previous post Johnson is far from a complete player in my humble opinion. He would be a nice complimentary receiver to a true @#1. I find it pretty foolish to think that we would need to pay 9 to 10 million to replace a serviceable #2. BTW there is a reason he lasted to the 7th round. Ball catching skills is most likely part of it.

 

I agree he has a place on the team. But come on 9 to 10 million to replace? I'm sorry there are true #1's at that price, not L. Fitzgerald but good players and they don't come with the drama this guy has. He was the laughing stock of the NFL after the jets game. They even burned him on the friggin Today show. He lost a game this year and last all by himself. Past Bills teams would not put up with that crap.

 

Johnson should tweet Donte and ask how it feels with a 2 million dollar whack from what the Bills had on the table, languishing and then accepting a huge cut from the 9ers. Where he is now a small fish in a big pond. Zero complaints here since Donte left. Johnson may experience the same thing. In the end although one of our 2 nest offensive players, I think he is replaceable, and lets face it we are arguably 20 players away from a solid contending team. Not just a team that could scratch its way in the playoffs and lose because of a TD drop.Should we let players like him go. No, but we should not be held hostage. In free agency I don't believe he will pull down true #1 money. he has to consider that because again Donte can tell him. In Buffalo i was a somebody in SF well I'm just an average player in an area that has a lot of professional sports franchises.

 

Name receivers the Bills have had better than him in 20 years... Reed, Moulds and that's it. Maybe Evans. Just because we got him with a 7th rounder doesn't mean we can pick a 7th rounder and expect the same results.

 

I agree with your last paragraph.

 

My original post was that Stevie is getting frustrated with Fitz openly because it is taking money out of his pocket. If Fitz hits Stevie when he is open like yesterday, he has 150 yards. Those yards = money and leverage. Fitz is costing Stevie directly and I can't imagine he will want to return under that scenario. He never got paid as a 7th rounder and will want to get his "due". Who knows what number of millions he has in his head.

 

Yes he has dropped some big passes. No excuses there. He also has had some big games and has made some great catches. The guy can play. He is better than any receiver on our roster and we will miss him if he's gone. Replacing him with a late round pick isn't an option. So we would either need to pony up and pay someone, spend a high pick or ignore the position.

[RkFast]

Name receivers the Bills have had better than him in 20 years... Reed, Moulds and that's it. Maybe Evans. Just because we got him with a 7th rounder doesn't mean we can pick a 7th rounder and expect the same results.

 

I agree with your last paragraph.

 

My original post was that Stevie is getting frustrated with Fitz openly because it is taking money out of his pocket. If Fitz hits Stevie when he is open like yesterday, he has 150 yards. Those yards = money and leverage. Fitz is costing Stevie directly and I can't imagine he will want to return under that scenario. He never got paid as a 7th rounder and will want to get his "due". Who knows what number of millions he has in his head.

Yes he has dropped some big passes. No excuses there. He also has had some big games and has made some great catches. The guy can play. He is better than any receiver on our roster and we will miss him if he's gone. Replacing him with a late round pick isn't an option. So we would either need to pony up and pay someone, spend a high pick or ignore the position.

 

 

And thank you very much....you just proved our point.

[EDinRTP]

Trade the jackass with this years #1, next years #2, and draft Luck.

[Nuncha]

I guess my question is this: why was the DB the only one to recognize and adjust to the underthrow?

 

I see plenty of WRs come back to the ball and either make the catch or break up the INT. Seems like if Stevie doesn't get room service, he can't be bothered to go pick up the food himself.

 

The DB was clearly beat on the play and was BEHIND SJ by nearly 5 yards. Much easier for a guy 5 yards behind to catch an underthrown Fitz Floater.

[C.Biscuit97]

Awesome. Another let's run a good player out of town for some stupid reason campaign by Bills fans. For as much as people B word about the FO, fans need to look in the mirror. Sabres fans do it with Ryan Miller. Bills fans have done it with Evans, Maybin, McGahee (though it probably was deserved), etc. Stevie Johnson is not the problem with the Bills and losing him only creates another hole. Develop, turn into a good player, get rid of him, then repeat. So stupid.

[RkFast]

Awesome. Another let's run a good player out of town for some stupid reason campaign by Bills fans. For as much as people B word about the FO, fans need to look in the mirror. Sabres fans do it with Ryan Miller. Bills fans have done it with Evans, Maybin, McGahee (though it probably was deserved), etc. Stevie Johnson is not the problem with the Bills and losing him only creates another hole. Develop, turn into a good player, get rid of him, then repeat. So stupid.

 

 

Evans, Maybin, McGahee...yeah those three are really lighting up the NFL. How will their new teams ever survive without them???????????

 

 

Seriously, who is running SJ out of town? We are debating the merits of paying him like you would an elite player. That now qualifies as irrational behavior around here?

Edited December 19, 2011 by RkFast

[starrymessenger]

Exactly right. It's sad when Bills fans are as dumb as Soloman Wilcox.

 

 

The pass looked exactly like the 2 Fitz threw to lose the Giants game.

Actually the pass was worse than what Corey Webster intercepted. Almost as bad, though not as funny, as the pass he threw yesterday 20 yards downfield and sixty yards in the air. A pot luck jump ball for maybe 10 players on either side.

A poster yesterday said the pass where Fitz overthrew Johnson was about SJ's lack of elite speed. Hilarious.

SJ is a bit of a flake, no doubt but 1) he is a WR:many WR are flakes and 2) he is also really very talented.

After the Jets game Stevie got flamed for the late game "drops". One poster said that was the difference betwen SJ and a true #1 receiver, like Santonio Holmes. Anyone watching the 2nd Jets game should have noticed Holmes dropping passes, including some well thrown balls, all over the place that day (even if he did catch an easy game winner. The truth is they almost all drop some.

[Ramius]

Look, I don't hate the guy. In fact I was quite impressed with his effort all year, being hurt and all. Yesterday he played an "A" game in my book. I'm just trying to point out that these 2nd tier players on a 2nd tier team (at best) need to accept reality. So if he gets 9 mil a year more power to him. I doubt the Bills will give it to him. My issue is his hands. His ability to be clutch. You don't teach that stuff. You either have it or you don't. He has shown he does not have it. His numbers on our team are good. I think if he hits free agency, he will be judged on a lot of things, including the showboating, and his history of epic drops. Not just poorly thrown balls buy his quarterback. Bring him back on a long term 5 year deal, he will have a lot more opprotunitys for his entertainment style in Buffalo population 270,000. than in say the bay area population 6 million. Imagine Stevie on a New Jersey team and losing games with his drops under pressure, they would toast him. here fans with my view are in the minority. Bills football has regressed so much that we worship a @2 receiver with questionable skills. Man I want to get past that.

 

 

I agree past Johnson we have no one. Boy do I agree with that One more point on the Ralph is cheap arguement. While Ralph is more than cheap on coaches, etc. We have several teams with MORE cap space than us. We just seem to pay big bucks for the wrong players. Dockery, Walker, Fitz, Kelsay, etc. why add a tier 2 receiver to the list. I believe ralph will have to spend to the cap in 2013. That should be interesting.

 

If #2 WRs put up 80-1000, i'd love to see your definition of a #1 WR. Stevie is a tier 2 WR, which is a step below the unstoppables like fitzgerald, megatron, andre johnson, roddy white (note: this is different than a #2 WR), in a group that includes guys like colston, wallace, boldin, bowe, harvin, jackson, jennings, maclin, etc.

 

All WRs drop passes. Stevie doesn't drop nearly as many as some of the "elite" WRs in the NFL like Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, etc. Hell, Marshall dropped 2 TD passes yesterday where miami had to settle for FGs. The only reason you guys notice Stevie's drops more than others is because he plays for the hometown team. But the grass is always greener, right?

 

Stevie will get his money, because good WRs like him that can beat coverage and find open spots don't come along all the time. Hopefully it will be from the Bills, but it appears many of you would much rather us let him go so you can feel good about yourselves as opposed to keeping him and making the team better.

[Armchair GM]

Not sure if anyone saw this with the blackout and all. Fitzy threw yet another underthrown, deep left pass to SJ in the 3rd quarter, resulting in an easy INT. What really bothered me, though, was SJ's reaction after the INT. First of all, he made no attempt to defend the pass from being picked off and no attempt to even tackle the CB. Then, after he realized it was intercepted, he just started bitching and flailing his arms, maybe calling for a flag?? I have no idea. He never even thought to touch the CB, who fell to the turf untouched, until it was too late. It didn't result in any return yarage, but I still think it's very telling how a WR reacts to an INT. Sure, the pass was bad, but it's one on one coverage. At least try to make a leap for it. At least TOUCH THE GUY. SJ couldn't be bothered. He just doesn't have his head in the game. TO took a lot of flak for doing the same thing 2 years ago, so I thought I'd mention it.

 

Wow...really? That INT was easy? Looked to me that he made a hell of a leap to go up and get the ball and SJ13 had ZERO chance of making a play as he broke his route to attempt to come back to a poorly underthrown ball....OH, and he did, in fact, make and attempt to touch the CB, but got blocked out of the way. You're reaching for something to mitch and boan about homey...FAIL. Are you a Fitz lover? That's what I thought!

Edited December 19, 2011 by Armchair GM

[C.Biscuit97]

Evans, Maybin, McGahee...yeah those three are really lighting up the NFL. How will their new teams ever survive without them???????????

 

 

Seriously, who is running SJ out of town? We are debating the merits of paying him like you would an elite player. That now qualifies as irrational behavior around here?

 

For years people tried to run Evans out of town and he was our best receiver. McGahee is havign a really good year for Denver and Maybin is the Jets best pass rusher.

 

My point is fans like to blame the wrong guys for why the team loses. The Bills are much better with SJ than without him.

[RkFast]

For years people tried to run Evans out of town and he was our best receiver. McGahee is havign a really good year for Denver and Maybin is the Jets best pass rusher.

 

My point is fans like to blame the wrong guys for why the team loses. The Bills are much better with SJ than without him.

 

 

I understand.

 

My point is that me, personally....I dont like building teams around guys with ten cent heads, even when they have a lot of pure physical ability.

 

Twitter drama, dropsies, fines, on and on. IMO, hes not producing enough to tolerate such behavior all the time and certainly not enough to warrant top pay.

Edited December 19, 2011 by RkFast

[Toshiero]

Look the kid has above average ability, is extremely immature, unreliable and NOT a professional in any sense of the word. No way in hell I pay this kid. but again he has become some Buffalo fan cult hero because he is a feel good story and made some decent plays last year. So what? He is another #2 talent that buffalo is pushing out there as a #1 ( see Lee Evans) that everyone will make excuses for.

 

I just pray these guys don't pay him like they did lee or Fitz and tie even more money up in average players

[starrymessenger]

Look the kid has above average ability, is extremely immature, unreliable and NOT a professional in any sense of the word. No way in hell I pay this kid. but again he has become some Buffalo fan cult hero because he is a feel good story and made some decent plays last year. So what? He is another #2 talent that buffalo is pushing out there as a #1 ( see Lee Evans) that everyone will make excuses for.

 

I just pray these guys don't pay him like they did lee or Fitz and tie even more money up in average players

No. Stevie Johnson is the real deal. Pair him with a guy who can throw and he will light it up.

[sfladave]

Evans, Maybin, McGahee...yeah those three are really lighting up the NFL. How will their new teams ever survive without them???????????

 

 

Seriously, who is running SJ out of town? We are debating the merits of paying him like you would an elite player. That now qualifies as irrational behavior around here?

I have not read anyone saying that Stevie should be paid as an elite WR. I have read a lot of people say that he deserves to be in that 2nd tier of WRs that get the 8-10 million per year. Even if that is overpaying a bit it does prevent putting another hole in the offense to fill especially when we already have so many holes.

 

We need to add depth to ALL of our positions and not ponying up for SJ just doesn't make sense to me. It's not like our back is up against the wall with cap room.