OT: Lawyers and Law School Grads, Regrets?

[BuffaloBob]

Some lawyers (like some doctors) are crooks, but saying insurance companies are the bad guys moreso than the lawyers is off base.....

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Please provide some facts for this position. You are not an attorney and you are not in insurance, so perhaps you should provide us with the basis for this position.

[gmac17]

so the guy who has this fact filled position wants me to back up what is obviously my opinion?

 

Moreover, corporations will virtually always opt for profits over safety, especially when they believe that their liability will be less than the profits they expect to reap. So what if you harm a few individuals, disrupt their lives and their families, so long as it costs you less to pay out compensation than it does to either fix the problem or do without the profits.

[BRH]

not necessarily. But IMO becoming a doctor is more difficult than becoming a lawyer by a factor of 10. (I base this on the fact that some of the dumbest people I know are lawyers, and I can't say that for the doctors I know).

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I won't denigrate the effort, time and expense it takes to become a doctor. And there's no question some people choose the lawyer track because it's the fastest (but IMHO by no means the easiest) way to get a "D" after your name.

 

But unless you've gone to both law and medical school, you're really no position to judge whether it's 10 times more difficult to become a doctor than a lawyer. The fact that YOU know a lot of dumb lawyers and a lot of smart doctors sheds no more light on the relative difficulty of their training process than flipping a coin that comes up heads 20 times in a row does on the probability that the next flip will also come up heads.

[Fashionformillenium]

Interesting. Even though this discussion wasn't started by me, I enjoyed reading everybody's comments. I always felt you guys are a smart group. My brother is considering getting a Masters in Education (basically for free at a lowly-in-rankings public school) or going for the law degree at a more decent private school. Personally, I feel he is better off investing in the latter.

[Tux of Borg]

Good Luck.  Whats the ultimate goal?

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I'll be happy to get my foot in the door at this point. My specific area of study is in computer forensics. That covers everything from hacking and viruses, to identify theft and economic crime. After my grunt days on active duty, I switched sides and took a military intel job in the guard. I got my first real taste of intel work during the Afghanistan conflict. I went back to active duty for a while and got to work with civilians in the intel field. It was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. The guys that did this full time gave me great advice in how to get into the field. Hence, the career path I am on right now.

[BuffaloBob]

so the guy who has this fact filled position wants me to back up what is obviously my opinion?

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The guy with the fact-filled positions has studied corporate governance and countless tort gases in law school and out, in which this very thing occurred time and again. Let's start with the exploding Pintos and the rolling SUVs, down to the drugs that they push through the FDA and sell $Billions of dollars worth before the health issues are finall brought to light.

 

I suppose I could start citing specific cases, but I think you made my point with the fact that this position is strictly opinion and that at best it is based on stuff you've heard rather than actual study of anything concrete. Like I said, this is exactly what the insurance industry, corporate America and the Republicans want. An ignorant public willing to believe anything they hear because they want to believe it.

[Greybeard]

Since there are so many lawyers here, I was wondering if lawyers ever sue other lawyers for malpractice? If so, what is considered malpractice?

[gmac17]

you have your opinion based on what you've studied, and I have my opinion based on what I've studied. You can cite examples, I can cite examples. at the end of the day they are both opinions, nothing more.

 

I'm just thankful that 50% of those greedy and careless obgyn's have been sued for malpractice.

[Deanster]

OK.. Something I might be qualified to respond to (at least from experience). Please keep in mind this is from the Canadian perspective. We don't have some of the billion dollar damage suits that the US has.

 

I finished my undergrad when I was 20 and got accepted to a few law schools. I decided to take a stab at it and started my classes in the fall of 1989. Almost immediately I came to realize that 1) I was way too young to be there and 2) the "allure" of being a lawyer might be the wrong reason to choose it as a career.

 

Consider these factors:

 

A relatively small percentage of lawyers actually ever litigate anything. Many end up pushing paper endlessly in corporate offices. If you have dreams of standing in the court room pleading passionately to a jury to right the wrongs of society you should probably do some research on how likely that might ever come to be. Sadly, the jobs that will allow for that are probably public prosecutor jobs. Endless work hours, not great pay. Could be satisfying though (I'm not a total cynic).

 

Which brings me to my next point. Endless hours. Most lawyers I know work crazy hours. I'm talking 70+ per week. OK, they make some money, but there are lots of ways to get that money without killing yourself and actually having a life.

 

To make it to the next level of income (150K +) you will either need to kiss serious ass in a law firm to become partner or chase ambulances. Neither appealed to me.

 

Law school itself is crawling with self-important pompous a-holes. From professors to students, it's tough to find real people (although I found a few). The study work is about as interesting as watching paint dry (then painting over it to watch it again). I have a property law text that you're welcome to read if you'd like.

 

Long story (somewhat) shortened: I quit law school, got a job in pharmaceutical sales, kept current and planned my career well and am now in a dream job that pays more (on a per-hour basis) than most lawyers I know. And I have a great home-life.

 

Just my experience!

[Arkady Renko]

Just wanted to thank everyone who has offered their opinions so far. I know very few people in the law profession so this helps out a lot. I don't think though that many have come forward to say that they wish they had gone to law school when they hadn't...

[Arkady Renko]

I got my BS in Finance 4 years ago. Considered going on...but found a great job in my field. Great company, great co-workers, challeging work, been here four years oh, and the pay is good too. I love it.

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You don't work for Manning-Napier, do you?

[Bill from NYC]

Wow...this thread is something I have wanted info about, and I hope someone can please help me out.

My daughter attends an Ivy. She is a junior. She wants to be an lawyer. One of her professors told her that there are 14 top law schools that if she attends, she will be set for life. Now, she says that she would rather take a year off than go to a "lesser" law school.

I, coming from Martin Van Buren High School, fail to understand this philosophy. Does it make THAT much of a difference where one goes to law school?

The truth is, she has more than one edge. She is Hispanic, and her SAT score and grades were high enough to get into her school if she was not. She is fluent in Spanish, Sign Language, Russian, and has taken a year of French. I dont see why attending a "lesser" school would hold her back but again, I am out of my league here.

I fail to see what would be wrong with her going to perhaps UB Law School. She would incur less debt, and get to be an attorney, should of course she pass. She does not want to hear it.

I would appreciate ANY help that any of you people can offer me in terms of advice and facts. It is hard to guide a child when you do not know what to tell her.

Again, help is needed, and I would consider myself in debt to any fellow Bills fans who can assist me.

Thanks in advance.

BFNYC

[Tux of Borg]

That's pretty close to what I heard on the subject. If you want to make the big money, you need to get into the top 15 schools. And the way you do this is by maxing out your LSAT. Money isn't important to me, and isn't the reason why I want to go law school. From what everybody is telling me, I might want to check out UB.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Wow...this thread is what is something I have wanted info about, and I hope someone can please help me out.

My daughter attends an Ivy. She is a junior. She wants to be an lawyer. One of her professors told her that there are 14 top law schools that if she attends, she will be set for life. Now, she says that she would rather take a year off than go to a "lesser" law school.

I, coming from Martin Van Buren High School, fail to understand this philosophy. Does it make THAT much of a difference where one goes to law school?

The truth is, she has more than one edge. She is Hispanic, and her SAT score and grades were high enough to get into her school if she was not. She is fluent in Spanish, Sign Language, Russian, and has taken a year of French. I dont see why attending a "lesser" school would hold her back but again, I am out of my league here.

I fail to see what would be wrong with her going to perhaps UB Law School. She would incur less debt, and get to be an attorney, should of course she pass. She does not want to hear it.

I would appreciate ANY help that any of you people can offer me in terms of advice and facts. It is hard to guide a child when you do not know what to tell her.

Again, help is needed, and I would consider myself in debt to any fellow Bills fans who can assist me.

Thanks in advance.

BFNYC

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Bill, it would depend on her goals. If she wants to work in certain areas, her pedigree will be less important. If she wants to work for a "white shoe" law firm in Manhattan practicing corporate law, she is better off taking the year off and going to one of the 14. All other things being equal and if she isn't in the former category, I'd advise her to go to the best law school possible. While there is something to be said for coming out with less debt, the pedigree in the long run is worth it IMHO. As someone without such a pedigree, I'll vouch that it is an easier path if you have such credentials.

 

PS-I in-house and practice corporate law. I go to work every day with a sh---eating grin on my face. The best advice I have for those who take the plunge is to work hard your first year, but remember who you are and that the connections you make can be invaluable down the road. I'm proud to say I drank a considerable amount of booze, watched a ton of sports and made some really great friends.

 

P.S. Steer her away from patent law; they are a weird lot in general..

 

Merry X-mas

[Bill from NYC]

That's pretty close to what I heard on the subject.  If you want to make the big money, you need to get into the top 15 schools.  And the way you do this is by maxing out your LSAT.  Money isn't important to me, and isn't the reason why I want to go law school.   From what everybody is telling me, I might want to check out UB.

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Thanks so much. She is going to take an LSAT course at her school this summer, and work full time.

Again, I am in the dark here. Thank you so much for helping me, especially during the Christmas Season. This board is great.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, it would depend on her goals.  If she wants to work in certain areas, her pedigree will be less important.  If she wants to work for a "white shoe" law firm in Manhattan practicing corporate law, she is better off taking the year off and going to one of the 14.  All other things being equal and if she isn't in the former category, I'd advise her to go to the best law school possible.  While there is something to be said for coming out with less debt, the pedigree in the long run is worth it IMHO.  As someone without such a pedigree, I'll vouch that it is an easier path if you have such credentials.

 

PS-I in-house and practice corporate law.  I go to work every day with a sh---eating grin on my face.  The best advice I have for those who take the plunge is to work hard your first year, but remember who you are and that the connections you make can be invaluable down the road.    I'm proud to say I drank a considerable, watched a ton of sports and made some really great friends. 

 

P.S.  Steer her away from patent law; they are a weird lot in general..

 

Merry X-mas

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She says that she favors (at this point) "Constitutional Law." Is this bad? Imo, she views herself as a hired gun of sorts, or so it seems.

Listen, thank you for your reply. She is going back up to school very soon. I want to show her this thread so she can learn from it.

Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones as well.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

That's pretty close to what I heard on the subject.  If you want to make the big money, you need to get into the top 15 schools.  And the way you do this is by maxing out your LSAT.  Money isn't important to me, and isn't the reason why I want to go law school.  From what everybody is telling me, I might want to check out UB.

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In general, I'd agree. That being said, if you are top 5% in your class at UB and not a booger-picking moron, you'll have opportunities to make very good money as a 1st year associate.

[airhunter11]

As a high school student interested in Law as a profession, are there certain undergrads that one has to attend in order to be accepted into law school? If so, what are these particular undergrads? Also, does anyone have any opinions on the best Canadian universities to attend for a graduate degree in law?

 

Thanks guys.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

She says that she favors (at this point) "Constitutional Law." Is this bad? Imo, she views herself as a hired gun of sorts, or so it seems.

Listen, thank you for your reply. She is going back up to school very soon. I want to show her this thread so she can learn from it.

Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones as well.

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It is not bad in the least. This is an absolutely fascinating area in which to practice. I would caution that it is tough to break in to such a practice. That being said, constitutional issues arise in a varieties of other areas. If this is truly her passion, I would recommend the best school possible.

 

 

Regardless of which path she chooses, she sounds like a bright young lady who will be a credit to our profession. Congratulations Dad.

 

P.S. Don't listen to these critics either. Good attorneys are appreciated and respected by their clients.

[gmac17]

like anything- a top school will help open a lot of doors for you, but if you do really well at any school you have a shot.

 

You couldn't pay me to go to take one of the jobs the top school students take here in NY - 80+ hour weeks etc. Make a ton of money but it's not for everyone.