PromoTheRobot Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Eleven years of terrible football. Incompetent management. Careless things like actively trying to eliminate the tailgating environment this season. These things were bound to take their toll on customer loyalty. How could it not? A half of a good football season does not erase all the ill will the Bills have accumulated. Factor in the obvious economic hard times for so many and people just aren't going to go charging out to snap up tickets to sit out in the cold for meaningless late season games. And don't kid yourself, most fans assume this team is missing the playoffs. It's a "show me" year for the Bills. As in, "show me that this isn't the same as the team in 2008 that was 5-3 at the midpoint. 5-3??? I'm so done with this team!! PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 5-3??? I'm so done with this team!! PTR It can't change overnight. I see what you are saying, but once bitten, twice shy. Weren't we 5-1 a few years back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 curiously enough, the Bills announced attendance for the "Comeback" game was 75,141. not sure if that counted as a sellout (i wasn't here), but it's some 5,000 fewer than other home games. move forward to 1994, the Bills entered the final month with a 7-6 record, with back-to-back home games: the first of which drew 66,500 against Minnesota and the second which drew 56,784 against New England. i think these two help discount the fact that Bills fans failed to show up because games were "meaningless," no? heck, 70,213 showed up for Jim Kelly's last game when capacity was over 78,000. odd, eh? jw That was a generation ago. Back then, the Bills took a different approach to ticket sales. They did not market AT ALL. It was all about wins and losses. Beginning around 1998 the Bills started to get aggressive about "regionalizing' the franchise and really turned a Bills game into an experience. Donahoe took it up a notch. They really had the ball rolling for about 10 years but the combination of on-field futility and alienating the customer took a huge bite out of season ticket sales lately. I would argue that the season ticket sales have a double effect. Those people tend to bring other people along. They buy a lot of extra seats. They are the basis for tailgates. When that number is as low as it is now, it's hard to sell out Nov/Dec games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well - as my buddy from SF said last week - the Bills played last Sunday like they were 30,000,000 below the cap - the Bills fail to invest in their team - don't expect the fans to invest in tix..... Agreed. Buddy loves his Guys!!! Which has gotten us to where we are at this point. Lack of depth is gonna hurt us the rest of the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) What awesome fans we have. Team is in first place at the half way mark and they still won't buy tickets. Hello Los Angeles. PTR ...a town famous for NFL ticket sales. Good point. Bills fans for all their hearty winter weather reputation have never entirely "warmed" to going to the Ralph in December. Of their 14 non-sellouts from 2000-10, eight of them were in December and nine after Thanksgiving. According to Bills, the numbers for December were even worse in the 1990s when the team was actually winning. just providing some perspective. jw For persective, anyone know how many December home tickets available in Pittsburgh/NE/Green Bay? Edited November 9, 2011 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 That was a generation ago. Back then, the Bills took a different approach to ticket sales. They did not market AT ALL. It was all about wins and losses. Beginning around 1998 the Bills started to get aggressive about "regionalizing' the franchise and really turned a Bills game into an experience. Donahoe took it up a notch. They really had the ball rolling for about 10 years but the combination of on-field futility and alienating the customer took a huge bite out of season ticket sales lately. I would argue that the season ticket sales have a double effect. Those people tend to bring other people along. They buy a lot of extra seats. They are the basis for tailgates. When that number is as low as it is now, it's hard to sell out Nov/Dec games. i disagree. for past 20 years ... and i haven't gone back further, it's historically been more difficult to sell tickets for games in December and beyond, whether the Bills are winning or losing, whether it's playoffs or not. the numbers state this. there's no getting around it. i don't know how this is debatable. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) i disagree. for past 20 years ... and i haven't gone back further, it's historically been more difficult to sell tickets for games in December and beyond, whether the Bills are winning or losing, whether it's playoffs or not. the numbers state this. there's no getting around it. i don't know how this is debatable. jw Throw out your stats for the 2000's we weren't competitive and were out of the running almost every year. The stats for the 90's aren't broken down by the year. What games weren't sold out - what was our record at the time - those are factors that drive sales. You make a specific accusation based on generalized data. And I agree with DD - there was a very limited marketing push, if any at all, in the early part of the 90's. And of course promo crosses his facts - confusing ticket sales for attendance - but then facts are just an inconvenience to him. Edited November 9, 2011 by Erik Flowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ...a town famous for NFL ticket sales. Good point. A location the NFL has come out and said is their goal for putting a team in A location where they have already secured a lucrative naming rights deal for a stadium that hasn't even started being built yet A location where groups are already working on building a stadium that may rival Jones stadium in Dallas and they don't even have a tenant yet A Location in one of the largest Markets in the US Yup, theres no way a small market team could ever be relocated there when they can't sell out games when they are TIED (happy?) for 1st overall in their division (only because they haven't played as many divisional games at this point) in a season where even the fans complaining in this post had predicted they would be picking in the top spot the last 3 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 A location the NFL has come out and said is their goal for putting a team in A location where they have already secured a lucrative naming rights deal for a stadium that hasn't even started being built yet A location where groups are already working on building a stadium that may rival Jones stadium in Dallas and they don't even have a tenant yet A Location in one of the largest Markets in the US Yup, theres no way a small market team could ever be relocated there when they can't sell out games when they are TIED (happy?) for 1st overall in their division (only because they haven't played as many divisional games at this point) in a season where even the fans complaining in this post had predicted they would be picking in the top spot the last 3 seasons ticket sales have almost nothing to do with the profitability of an NFL team. Its all about TV dollars and corporate sales. No team will move to LA on the hope of selling tickets, because the people there don't care about football. That has been demonstrated over and over and over again. Keep holding your breath for something to actually occur in LA. For all the progress you claim has been made, has anyone actually stuck a shovel in the ground yet? And no, saying they are tied for first isn't accurate either. According to the tie breakers, they are in third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 A location the NFL has come out and said is their goal for putting a team in A location where they have already secured a lucrative naming rights deal for a stadium that hasn't even started being built yet A location where groups are already working on building a stadium that may rival Jones stadium in Dallas and they don't even have a tenant yet A Location in one of the largest Markets in the US Yup, theres no way a small market team could ever be relocated there when they can't sell out games when they are TIED (happy?) for 1st overall in their division (only because they haven't played as many divisional games at this point) in a season where even the fans complaining in this post had predicted they would be picking in the top spot the last 3 seasons Ground hasn't broken on a single site in LA. The NFL has been openly pushing to bring a team there for at least 15 years--still no stadium, still no team. The Bills are the least likely team to move to LA--you should be well aware of this by now. Why are you pretending such a move is not just "possible" (in the "anythings possible" category, I guess), but imminent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Throw out your stats for the 2000's we weren't competitive and were out of the running almost every year. The stats for the 90's aren't broken down by the year. What games weren't sold out - what was our record at the time - those are factors that drive sales. You make a specific accusation based on generalized data. And I agree with DD - there was a very limited marketing push, if any at all, in the early part of the 90's. And of course promo crosses his facts - confusing ticket sales for attendance - but then facts are just an inconvenience to him. but there were FEWER non-sellouts in December with a non-winning team than there were in the 1990s with a winning team. that's what makes this curious. marketing, shmarketing. a winning team needs no marketing. it should be able to sell itself, especially in a town where "fans" like to insist that they're all about winning and the Bills. as much as Buffalonians like to talk big about not minding the weather, they're a lot like most people, preferring to stay indoors for the most part once things turn brisk. jw For persective, anyone know how many December home tickets available in Pittsburgh/NE/Green Bay? good question. don't have time to dig into it as of now, as gotta work. but good question. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills(70) Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Bills fans for all their hearty winter weather reputation have never entirely "warmed" to going to the Ralph in December. Of their 14 non-sellouts from 2000-10, eight of them were in December and nine after Thanksgiving. According to Bills, the numbers for December were even worse in the 1990s when the team was actually winning. just providing some perspective. jw DOMED STADIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 but there were FEWER non-sellouts in December with a non-winning team than there were in the 1990s with a winning team. that's what makes this curious. marketing, shmarketing. a winning team needs no marketing. it should be able to sell itself, especially in a town where "fans" like to insist that they're all about winning and the Bills. as much as Buffalonians like to talk big about not minding the weather, they're a lot like most people, preferring to stay indoors for the most part once things turn brisk. jw Your response is nonsense. If fans are all about winning and the bills (two mutually exclusive concepts for nearly the Bills entire existence) then why are season ticket sales and sellouts increasing through the 2000's when they sucked? Because of marketing and regionalization. So again - lets look at which specific games didn't sell out and the Bills record at the time and maybe we can make some progress. And where are you getting the figures you based your story on? Quoting yourself is quite fulfilling, I am sure, but it doesn't help those trying to get to the root of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 My point is if you've got to move some seats, do it at a better time when emotions are riding high"er". Like after a win. And then frame it that you want the stadium packed for the team's late season playoff run. I kinda agree, but maybe the team is wary that after a hot start, with the fans excited, and the team playing great the season has started a downward trend, and are afraid if they wait too much longer they won't be able to give them away. This team was the talk of the NFL after 3 weeks, but in the last 5 games they are 2-3, every since Week 3, Fitz has as many interceptions as touchdowns and as been abysmal in the last two losses, and they are coming off a loss in which, quite frankly just about any team in the NFL could have beaten them. It would be a boost in sales if they go into Dallas and smoke America's Team, but then again if they were confident that they were going to do that, they wouldn't have to discount the tickets. I hope things take a turn upward, and what a better place to start then in Dallas, but my gut feeling isn't quite as hopeful. OK I did not want to post in this %$#@%%#### GO buy some tickets $#@^$$##@#$$ WAKE UP PEOPLE WE ARE 5 - 3 with only one bad loss and that was to the jets. :wallbash: That is it and I am not saying any thing else. :wallbash: You didn't see the Giants game that we wrapped and put a bow on it for them, delivered by Fitz personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thread Summary: Bills cut ticket prices, fans complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thread Summary: Bills cut ticket prices, fans complain. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thread Summary: Bills cut ticket prices, fans complain. I agree Q and i'd add that after reviewing the thread again i really can't understand some of your complaints. The OP's point was simple enough - he's a Ralph Wilson hater who obviously is deriving some shallow enjoyment from the fact that the Bills are discounting tickets for the final games. 12% less money for greedy ol' coot makes his day, i guess. What the rest of you are complaining about is beyond me. Some seem to be advocating that no one buys any tickets until the team shows sustained success for 3 or more seasons - grand idea, if you want the team gone by 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 5-3??? I'm so done with this team!! PTR I don't think they are saying they are done with this team, that is just you trying to start ill will as always. All most of these people are saying is we have been here before, and have been burned too many times. It is being cautiously optimistic, and not wanting to be overly disappointed once again. If you had a wife for 15 years, and for the last 10 years she was cheating on you and bringing exotic diseases home to you every other night, then all of a sudden she behaves for a couple weeks, are you going to just assume her long history is all of a sudden changed over night? I know I wouldn't, but you make up your own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I don't think they are saying they are done with this team, that is just you trying to start ill will as always. All most of these people are saying is we have been here before, and have been burned too many times. It is being cautiously optimistic, and not wanting to be overly disappointed once again. If you had a wife for 15 years, and for the last 10 years she was cheating on you and bringing exotic diseases home to you every other night, then all of a sudden she behaves for a couple weeks, are you going to just assume her long history is all of a sudden changed over night? I know I wouldn't, but you make up your own mind. The bolded is QFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Probably because sales slowed down. Maybe they expected fans to actually buy tickets to see their first-place team. Jokes on them. PTR Or maybe they want to try and pawn them all off while the team IS in first place fearing a slide. In any event it is a great deal people so get busy and buy those discounted tickets my I can watch the game in HD at home with my family! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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