A New Domed Bills Stadium in the Falls?

[ChevyVanMiller]

I am diabolically opposed to anything built anywhere but in Buffalo. Not crazy about a dome, but this is Buffalo's asset, and if any downtown area could use the boost economically, it needs to go to the city that has been punched in the gut for the last 100 years. I hate the idea of something being put in Niagara Falls plain ans simple. If they were the Niagara Falls Bills playing games in Orchard Park, then sure, try to bring the team back to your city, but they're not, so can we please let this stupid idea go away....

 

Besides, anyone who has been to RWS lately knows how great a place it is to watch a football game, no other new stadium can even come close to competing with it's seating, ease to get into and out of the stadium, and it's relatively easy access for parking. I could care less about the idiot concourses filled with overpriced merchandise, or crappy overpriced restaurants, I go to watch the game, and have yet to sit in another venue that does it better than the Ralph. Now waiting to take a piss, that's something they could spend a little coin updating.

 

BTW - I am going to the Bills-Dallas game, so I'll let you know how the seating and overall stadium compares to the new Rockpile.

 

You do realize that Buffalo changed the name of the airport to the "Buffalo Niagara International Airport," the tourism bureau to the "Buffalo Niagara Visitor's Bureau," the convention center to the "Buffalo Niagara Visitor's and Convention Center" and the major money powerhouse to the "Buffalo Niagara Partnership," don't you?

 

The Bills play their games in Orchard park, hold their camp in Rochester and play a home and occasional pre-season game in Toronto. The only thing they DON'T do is have any activities in Buffalo. The Bills belong to the region - plain and simple.

[RTW2012]

And beyond that it would behoove the Bills and the County to improve RWS with amenities that generate money, like a Bills HOF and/or restaurants, meeting spaces, and such. If you wanna play with the big boys you have to bring a bank roll.

 

PTR

 

None of that will generate revenue with the stadium in Orchard Park. If the stadium was in downtown Buffalo (or Niagara Falls, perhaps), then you have a shot at making some money outside of game days.

 

The trade-off for having a stadium in the burbs with ample room for tailgating is that it will only be used 8-10 times per year.

[sfladave]

If anyone watched the Bills teams of the 90's, you know then fans come out for December games, even last games of the year when Marv sat half the team. If the Bills continue to win and make a playoff push, the Ralph will be rockin' in December.

 

As far as a dome, It could make economic sense for the State of New York. It would be a multi-purpose facility that could help revitalize the Buffalo area, keep the NFL in the area, and be a hallmark of NFL stadiums. Could it be built to maintain the tailgating culture of the Ralph? Could you guarantee the roof open for all football games? Can 100mil turn the Ralph into viable? Forgetting personal traditions and preferences; Is spending a 15Billion on a new dome a better investment than 100mil for the long term future of the Bills?

Unless it was a wild card game vs Houston!

 

Winning alone does not guaranttee sell outs.

[weehawk]

No doubt about it.

 

I was responding to the notion of a new domed stadium. Or any *new* stadium for that fact. They have to keep RWS safe and comfortable. As far as a HOF or other amenities are concerned, I'm on the fence about those if they come out of taxpayers pockets.

 

 

RWS seems well built, though next time you go to the game look at the underside of the upper deck and see all the aftermarket braces, etc, in place. Nothing lasts forever. If you aren't going to build new you are certainly going to pay for upkeep, and that's more than just a coat of paint. And beyond that it would behoove the Bills and the County to improve RWS with amenities that generate money, like a Bills HOF and/or restaurants, meeting spaces, and such. If you wanna play with the big boys you have to bring a bank roll.

 

PTR

[Chandemonium]

Unless it was a wild card game vs Houston!

 

Winning alone does not guaranttee sell outs.

The seating capacity of the stadium back then was 80,000+. Attendance for the comeback game you are referring to was 75,000, which is 2,000 more than then the current seating capacity. The Colts blizzard game 2 years ago was a sellout, and the Bills had 5 wins going into that game in awful conditions. There's no way the Bills have trouble selling out their December games if they're in playoff contention IMO.

[nick in* england]

No to a dome. For example: see Toronto.

 

No to Niagara Falls. I like the idea but even two seconds spent think about it you realise that transport is worse than it is for OP.

 

What's next? A stadium on Grand Island?

 

N

[Bills(70)]

Doesn't matter what they put in DT buffalo. It will never be host to anything of national or international importance, including a super bowl.

The objections to a dome in NF are all pretty lame and just smack of some lazy ass not wanting to drive the extra 15 minutes, too cheap (or worse broke) to drink anything but a 6 of genny cream pee water. Ie the exact type of fan the NFL doesn't see in its future.

Truth is NFL has gotten more family and corporate oriented, and with an international agenda, none of which work in an outdoor space on the outskirts of an acknowledged dying cold Weather city. Sure NF has similar problems but unlike buffalo it has an internationally renowned tourist attraction that will never be taken away. Along with the canadian side it is well suited to accomodate large number of visitors with accommodations and attractions, attracting families and businesses alike, and access to a constant stream of international visitors.

I wouldn't waste another dime on the Ralph.

Let's get with the future and build a dome near the Falls, putting the bills on top of the nfl economic food chain rather than groveling along the bottom in constant fear of getting eaten by bigger fish

Your comments are borderline ridiculous.

Especially the ones about Niagara Falls being family friendly, far from it.

Buffalo can not only handle the traffic with current infrastructure, it can easily build the accomadations necessary in a much more cost effective manner given the existence of the current infrastructure. Plus, as stated, Niagara Falls is a chemical pit, and there is literally near nothing in accomadations on the New York side, making traffic a nightmare experience.

 

A stadium would actually detract from the Falls itself on Sundays, as visitors here for that sole reason and not a football game would get the word out the the area is clogged with crazed American football fans.

No, not a good idea at all.....

 

No to a dome. For example: see Toronto.

 

No to Niagara Falls. I like the idea but even two seconds spent think about it you realise that transport is worse than it is for OP.

 

What's next? A stadium on Grand Island?

 

N

Yes to a domed stadium.

And for more than several reasons.

First of which is the economic benefit of having an all season indoor facility, especially in Buffalo, New York.

It makes no sense what so ever for the tax payers of Erie county (and subsequently New York through tax incentives, grants and the like) to continue to foot such a large bill on a civic building without increasing it's potential return through revenue generators.

 

I.E.

It's nice to hold a concert in Jan. (country music, rock, or whatever venue) in the 18 thousand seat First Niagara Center, But a domed stadium could hold events 4 times + that size.

It's common sense to maximize potential returns and minimize as much as possible, the financial impact on taxpayers.

[truth on hold]

Why don't you go there before making such uninformed comments? There are major stretches of highway from over building the infrastrure around that area that barely hve any traffic, and are well suited to handle the capacity.

See, being clueless you ended providing another important point to putting it in the falls

[Astrojanitor]

"What is the bigger move? What could the people of Western New York do to make a national statement that the Bills are our team, the NFL our birthright, and that we are serious about being a real player at a poker table many think has reached a level too steep for our wallet?

 

Eschewing the stadium renovations in favor of building a state-of-the-art domed stadium would be the first shot across the bow that I'd fire to serve that notice nationally. Putting that stadium in downtown Niagara Falls would be the second."

 

Would you support a plan to build a new dome in place of shelling out $100 million to update the Ralph?

 

A DOME FOR THE BILLS IN NIAGARA FALLS COULD KEEP TEAM HERE, REVITALIZE CITY

 

No dome! The advantage this team has in Dec/Jan cannot be denied. Back in the glory days my favorite thing was watching the Bills play in a snow storm in their shirtsleeves. Total psych out to the opponent and one of the fun things about following a Northern team.

Domes may be good for business, but they are awful for the game.

[RTW2012]

 

It's nice to hold a concert in Jan. (country music, rock, or whatever venue) in the 18 thousand seat First Niagara Center, But a domed stadium could hold events 4 times + that size.

It's common sense to maximize potential returns and minimize as much as possible, the financial impact on taxpayers.

 

The days of stadium concerts are over. Performers prefer venues of 20K or less. Even in its heyday the Ralph/Rich didn't host that many concerts- the last one there was in 2001.

 

To all those saying you need a dome, exactly what other uses are you going to get out of it?

 

Concerts, monster trucks, wrestling? Any of these held at a dome would just take away from business for First Niagara Center.

 

Super Bowl? An extreme long shot.

 

Conventions? Maybe, but once again it would take away business from an existing venue. Although I've read that the convention center is undersized, would a stadium floor attract that many more conventions? I have my doubts.

 

Final Four/ NCAA regionals? Possible. Not going to rule it out, but attracting the Final Four would be almost as much a long shot as getting a Super Bowl. Plus, the FNC already gets NCAA subregionals semi-regularly.

 

UB football? UB seems unconcerned about upgrading its program, and would prefer to keep playing in its bare-bones stadium on campus.

 

I'd like to see a new stadium that can be used more than 8-10 times a year, but I'm having a hard time seeing other uses for it. Any stadium that is going to see use outside of Bills games needs to be in an urban center, either downtown Buffalo or Niagara Falls. Orchard Park just doesn't cut it.

[Marv's Neighbor]

You guys are delusional! Fun, but delusional.

 

We went from a $100M Rich renovation to a Dome costing over 10 times what the still unspecified renovations would cost.

 

The Dome people are talking as though we already have the $100M sitting in Orchard Park! As far as I know, we are mostly counting on the largess of New York State for much of that money and their credit is also in the toilet, so where does that leave us? Anyone want to co-sign for that Loan?

 

Niagara Falls is mostly a Super Fund site. Take any suitable parcel, do some preliminery soil tests, and I expect the actual development costs would be out of sight expensive. Soil remediation is mostly a huge rip-off BUT if the site tests call for it, get ready to write a big fat check, and that's before you even get to build anything. A Buffalo City location would be preferable but that's IF we had the funding and I don't think there's a chance of pulling that one off.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the BILLS and Erie County/NYS can settle on some acceptable Rich renovations, sign a 10-20 year deal, and praise God that we got that far!

[PromoTheRobot]

None of that will generate revenue with the stadium in Orchard Park. If the stadium was in downtown Buffalo (or Niagara Falls, perhaps), then you have a shot at making some money outside of game days.

 

The trade-off for having a stadium in the burbs with ample room for tailgating is that it will only be used 8-10 times per year.

I would have said the same thing until I saw Patriot Place at Gillette Stadium. Foxboro is basically suburban nowhere and they do just fine.

 

PTR

[ET1062]

The walls are not crumbling ... the toilets work ...

 

Toilets? Not in my section, we have troths!

[Mr. WEO]

The days of stadium concerts are over. Performers prefer venues of 20K or less. Even in its heyday the Ralph/Rich didn't host that many concerts- the last one there was in 2001.

 

To all those saying you need a dome, exactly what other uses are you going to get out of it?

 

Concerts, monster trucks, wrestling? Any of these held at a dome would just take away from business for First Niagara Center.

 

Super Bowl? An extreme long shot.

 

Conventions? Maybe, but once again it would take away business from an existing venue. Although I've read that the convention center is undersized, would a stadium floor attract that many more conventions? I have my doubts.

 

Final Four/ NCAA regionals? Possible. Not going to rule it out, but attracting the Final Four would be almost as much a long shot as getting a Super Bowl. Plus, the FNC already gets NCAA subregionals semi-regularly.

 

UB football? UB seems unconcerned about upgrading its program, and would prefer to keep playing in its bare-bones stadium on campus.

 

I'd like to see a new stadium that can be used more than 8-10 times a year, but I'm having a hard time seeing other uses for it. Any stadium that is going to see use outside of Bills games needs to be in an urban center, either downtown Buffalo or Niagara Falls. Orchard Park just doesn't cut it.

I agree with this. A dome would be empty almost every day except game days. Who holds a convention in a 65,000 seat dome? And what concert would fill this dome?

[Mike in Horseheads]

You guys are delusional! Fun, but delusional.

 

We went from a $100M Rich renovation to a Dome costing over 10 times what the still unspecified renovations would cost.

 

The Dome people are talking as though we already have the $100M sitting in Orchard Park! As far as I know, we are mostly counting on the largess of New York State for much of that money and their credit is also in the toilet, so where does that leave us? Anyone want to co-sign for that Loan?

 

Niagara Falls is mostly a Super Fund site. Take any suitable parcel, do some preliminery soil tests, and I expect the actual development costs would be out of sight expensive. Soil remediation is mostly a huge rip-off BUT if the site tests call for it, get ready to write a big fat check, and that's before you even get to build anything. A Buffalo City location would be preferable but that's IF we had the funding and I don't think there's a chance of pulling that one off.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the BILLS and Erie County/NYS can settle on some acceptable Rich renovations, sign a 10-20 year deal, and praise God that we got that far!

...Any body thinking that the State is going to help build a billion dollar dome in the Falls is dreaming. Based on the attached if they contribute $10 the area/Bills/fans will be lucky.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/71320785/2012-13-Call-Letter

[vorpma]

Build an open air stadium in downtown Buffalo on the waterfront! I love the idea of a late December game with cold gray skies! The Vikings have never been the same since they movede to a domed stadium, take football back to its roots, muddy, snow and the gray December sky.

[Bills(70)]

I'll take the last posts 1 at a time, starting with Joe 6 pack.

1st Joe, my firm Eninthal, did a traffic study for the city of Niagara Falls with regards to a high truck volume industry (granted, not nearly an 80k seat stadiums worth, but a good example), Your way off base on your statements with regards to funneling of traffic with current infrastructure.

Niagara Falls is just a bad location for such a venue. A convention center and 10,000 seat arena would be perfect right across the street from the Casino, but that would have to include a multi-industry buildout to include Rainbow Blvd and more.

 

Astrojanitor,

A dome stadium would be a signature project and would change the landscape of downtown. Adding not only prestige, but also the ability to function on some levels as a major city center, allowing a draw to keep some of the youth and attract new. Granted, jobs would be the key to that, but it would most certainly add a touch of increased standard of living. Their are varibles at work here beyond the normal thoughts on this.

 

Mobywale,

While I don't discount some of what you say, a Super Bowl is most certainly an assured event, given the NFL's desire to increase it's fan base, even from outside the US markets. As a matter of fact, one of the NFL's staple programs is to increase market share in Canada. Not a bad idea actually, after all, Buffalo is a mere 1 1/2 hours from Toronto and currently has a bonus with regards to the exchange rate between the Canadian and American dollar.

Also, here is a link to the brief listing for the Metrodome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_H._Humphrey_Metrodome#Other_events

 

There is such a huge, (and I cannot stress that enough) huge upside for standard of living, not only in the close surrounding communities, but regionally overall that it actually becomes easier to swallow as a civic project.

And there are many more events culturally and otherwise than what that link lists as well as yourself.

Thinking outside of the box is what is needed in this area, not the status quo.

 

We do atleast agree on downtown Buffalo as any new site for this type of venue, and I whole-heartedly agree.

 

To Marv's Neighbor,

I understand your sentiment on the cost, but ask yourself this.....

How many renovations of Ralph have occured to date and what was the overall cost to taxpayers?

Also, how many more renovations will take place, and once again, at what cost to taxpayers?

I can tell you this, to date, Rich Stadium (forgive me, it will always be Rich Stadium to me) combined with the old Veterans Stadium have cost (inflationary rate figured in) roughly 1.5 times the amount a new, state of the art, domed stadium would cost us.

I would vote for the bond offering on this in a heartbeat given the alternative of losing the team altogether combined with a subpar stadium such as Rich Stadium.

 

To Mr. WEO,

You can't compare the 2. Foxboro sits outside a metro area with roughly 4 million people, the numbers aren't even close for this area at a mere 1.5 million. In order to change that you'd have to add a facility that "increases the standard of living".

A dome stadium does this.

 

To Mike in HorseHeads,

You don't need the state, you need private investment, that is the only assured way of a successfully run facility until the debt is paid off. By then, the managing agency should have ample experience to run the facility on it's own merits.

[truth on hold]

I didn't say there wouldn't be changes made, I am saying there's a lot of unused capacity. Changes would certainly be required in downtown buffalo and I could see the urban setting being far more problematic. in the NF-area be a lot easier for the state/city to claim large parcels of under utilized land under "emiment domain" and do as they see fit

Edited November 2, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Mike in Horseheads]

To Mike in HorseHeads,

You don't need the state, you need private investment, that is the only assured way of a successfully run facility until the debt is paid off. By then, the managing agency should have ample experience to run the facility on it's own merits.

..I couldn't agree more, but I guess that means the Bills are looking for a two billion dollar investor for a stadium and the team. Not going to happen.

[Bills(70)]

..I couldn't agree more, but I guess that means the Bills are looking for a two billion dollar investor for a stadium and the team. Not going to happen.

This I can agree with.

There are some avenues to take on this with the "thinking outside of the box" mentality. It's not entirely outside of the realm of possibilities, but yes, I do agree that it would be a "hard sell", especially given the current circumstances in the region concerning market size.

Any plan on a domed stadium would surely have to include a broader plan to bring in jobs and not only retain the regions current population size, but also have viable plans to grow and expand it.

That won't happen here in WNY at this time given the political climate at both the state as well as the local level.

To much of the me, me, me and cronyism/patronage system in play here. Actually, I'm surprised the younger generations haven't looked at the situation with some seriousness and attempted in large scale to change it, but then again, the youth in this area leave partially because they are sick to their stomachs of watching the older generations vote in these politicians that basically continue to rape the area, sad actually.

 

I didn't say there wouldn't be changes made, I am saying there's a lot of unused capacity. Changes would certainly be required in downtown buffalo and I could see the urban setting being far more problematic. in the NF-area be a lot easier for the state/city to claim large parcels of under utilized land under "emiment domain" and do as they see fit

We have an entire lake front on Fhurman Blvd that is more than amply ready to be developed for such a project.

The question I'd want answered would fall under the political will catagory.