stinky finger Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for another good, reasonable post. Who knows if Young makes it or not but the whining about this move is unbelievable. When Clabo, who became the greatest thing since slice bread this offseason, was Young's age, he was bouncing around from team to team. The Giants' SB winning team of a few years that was widely considered the best in the NFL for a few years, was made up of castoffs and low round draft picks. While the post in and of itself may be reasonable, the whining of the masses is also. The talk of 3-4 year plans doesn't sit well, nor should it, with those rooting for a team who hasn't made the playoffs for whats going on into it's second decade. I applaud the stoic, thoughtful, "reasonable" faction here, but many have had it up to freakin' HERE with the ineptness this franchise has had on display for far too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 While the post in and of itself may be reasonable, the whining of the masses is also. The talk of 3-4 year plans doesn't sit well, nor should it, with those rooting for a team who hasn't made the playoffs for whats going on into it's second decade. I applaud the stoic, thoughtful, "reasonable" faction here, but many have had it up to freakin' HERE with the ineptness this franchise has had on display for far too long. When my bills are overdue, I get as many extensions as I can with small payments. I kind of view this as the same thing. Next year they will draft some Oline talent but even the highly drafted Oline talent needs development time. Last years waiver wire PS pick ups worked out ok with minimum investment (like free draft picks, I think Buddy said). I don't love this way of doing it but it at least shows some farsightedness and effort. Certainly better than Levy/Jauron tried to do. After the vet guarantees are done with next week , we will pick up another guy or two. I like this guy, Ryan Cook (Minnesota signed 2 year contract after the lock out) plays all positions on the line, 28 years old, played rt for them when AD was having very big years, came back to be a guard this year but they have newer younger guys and a new staff. IMO a Nix type of vet pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 How do you arrive at this conclusion? Jasper is on the PS. That's where players go to develop. How does that change because they signed Young? Eventually they would want the two of them to compete. Remember Nix said he wants to stack players on players? Doyle Miller CB was put on PS. If that's the case, then Jasper better be at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 As I mentioned in another OL related thread, these are the types of players we will pick up. Similar to Urbik and Pears and the TE the just acquired. They are looking for the diamond in the rough. A young player with some potential that they can hopefully develop. No quick fixes here. This rebuild is not on a 3 year plan. It will take at least 4 years and that is only if they hit big on the their drafts. It is pretty obvious that the Bills are looking for a diamond in the rough. Do they honestly believe that a Jason Peters will show up in every other UDFA group? Once the Bills start spending high draft picks on O-linemen instead of running backs, which are much easier to find in UDFAs (Arian Foster, LaGarrette Blount as of late, Fred Jackson way before them), they will start building a team. Drafting scat backs and defensive backs with 1st round picks will never build a good foundation. Spiller was a mistake, Dareus was an excellent pick. We will get a QB this year, whether it's Luck, Barkley or Landry Jones. After that, the Bills should draft nothing but OL, maybe a TE, and quit depending on finding a diamond in the rough. It should not take 4 years to build a team, it takes a good front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 It is pretty obvious that the Bills are looking for a diamond in the rough. Do they honestly believe that a Jason Peters will show up in every other UDFA group? Once the Bills start spending high draft picks on O-linemen instead of running backs, which are much easier to find in UDFAs (Arian Foster, LaGarrette Blount as of late, Fred Jackson way before them), they will start building a team. Drafting scat backs and defensive backs with 1st round picks will never build a good foundation. Spiller was a mistake, Dareus was an excellent pick. We will get a QB this year, whether it's Luck, Barkley or Landry Jones. After that, the Bills should draft nothing but OL, maybe a TE, and quit depending on finding a diamond in the rough. It should not take 4 years to build a team, it takes a good front office. If we finish poorly this year, and it's because of our offensive line, I can safely bet that we will draft to fill those needs. This off season was centered around a bigger defense. Baby steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Great HS player, top rated OL coming out, but never lived up to the recruiting hype. Saw every one of his college games at ND. He was a good, but far from great player. If I were to choose one word to describe him it would be SOFT. That fits our offensive line strategy. We are not looking for athletic types...just heavy soft guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 When my bills are overdue, I get as many extensions as I can with small payments. I kind of view this as the same thing. Next year they will draft some Oline talent but even the highly drafted Oline talent needs development time. Last years waiver wire PS pick ups worked out ok with minimum investment (like free draft picks, I think Buddy said). I don't love this way of doing it but it at least shows some farsightedness and effort. Certainly better than Levy/Jauron tried to do. After the vet guarantees are done with next week , we will pick up another guy or two. I like this guy, Ryan Cook (Minnesota signed 2 year contract after the lock out) plays all positions on the line, 28 years old, played rt for them when AD was having very big years, came back to be a guard this year but they have newer younger guys and a new staff. IMO a Nix type of vet pick up. Cook signed with the Dolphins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The Cowboys have not done a great job in developing young offensive linemen. (Then again, neither have the Bills.) It's reasonable to assume that the Bills think they can work with and develop this guy into a player, and there is no risk to trying. That said, how horrible must Wrotto, Howard and Wang be, that they were ditched for this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Cook signed with the Dolphins Damn, didn't see that. Too bad, very good run blocker a couple years ago, will open some holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Sam Young + Lee Smith = serviceable RT. You just have to leave Smith there on passing plays. Sam Young CAN run block. Hey, plenty of low round picks and free agents become good NFL lineman. The Bills just tried to throw 25 mil at one in Clabo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 If we finish poorly this year, and it's because of our offensive line, I can safely bet that we will draft to fill those needs. This off season was centered around a bigger defense. Baby steps. Absolutely. I loved that we addressed our defense in this year's draft. I would have dreaded getting Cam Newton and watching another year of our defense getting shredded by the run. In our "whatever"-year plan, this draft was a big step. I know we need to address our O-line and Young can't hurt. I'm just not delusional in thinking, nor do I have expectations that he's going to be another Jason Peters. If I were an NFL GM, I would be always restocking my offensive and defensive lines as much as possible in the draft and build around that, addressing positional needs now and then through free agency and a draft pick. A good defensive line getting pressure on a QB makes a DBs life easier, and a good O-line opening holes and providing good pass protection makes a RB and QBs life easier. Seems simple enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 It is pretty obvious that the Bills are looking for a diamond in the rough. Do they honestly believe that a Jason Peters will show up in every other UDFA group? Once the Bills start spending high draft picks on O-linemen instead of running backs, which are much easier to find in UDFAs (Arian Foster, LaGarrette Blount as of late, Fred Jackson way before them), they will start building a team. Drafting scat backs and defensive backs with 1st round picks will never build a good foundation. Spiller was a mistake, Dareus was an excellent pick. We will get a QB this year, whether it's Luck, Barkley or Landry Jones. After that, the Bills should draft nothing but OL, maybe a TE, and quit depending on finding a diamond in the rough. It should not take 4 years to build a team, it takes a good front office. tell that to Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa Bay, San Francisco, Oakland, Houston, St. Louis, Washington......... There are just as many o-linemen found as UDFA's as there are skill players. Olinemen just don't get recognised as much as skill players. GB won the Super bowl with a line that gave up more sacks then anyone else in the league. Pittsburgh has a Bills castoff playing LT for them who also started in the Super Bowl for them last season. In Arizonas SB, they had another Bills castoff (often refered to around here as a "turnstile") starting on their o-line. You don't have to have a line built with top picks and pro Bowlers to be good. You need to have a good line, with a great QB, something those teams all have/had (Rogers, Ben R, Warner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 If we finish poorly this year, and it's because of our offensive line, I can safely bet that we will draft to fill those needs. This off season was centered around a bigger defense. Baby steps. Not to mention that by far the best player on the Board when the Bills drafted was a defensive lineman in round 1. Filled a need and BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 tell that to Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa Bay, San Francisco, Oakland, Houston, St. Louis, Washington......... There are just as many o-linemen found as UDFA's as there are skill players. Olinemen just don't get recognised as much as skill players. GB won the Super bowl with a line that gave up more sacks then anyone else in the league. Pittsburgh has a Bills castoff playing LT for them who also started in the Super Bowl for them last season. In Arizonas SB, they had another Bills castoff (often refered to around here as a "turnstile") starting on their o-line. You don't have to have a line built with top picks and pro Bowlers to be good. You need to have a good line, with a great QB, something those teams all have/had (Rogers, Ben R, Warner) St. Louis went from last place to SB Champs in 1999. The NFC South was known for the last place team finishing first quite a few years in a row. It SHOULD NOT take that long. Good coaching is needed also. Bills don't seem to have that. I would call the Falcons o-line coach a miracle worker. He took two UDFAs and made them stars (Clabo and Dahl). Still, they have Blaylock (a #2) and Baker (a #2) as anchors. Every O-line has an anchor or multiple anchors, and you can plug in a Jonathan Scott and still keep rolling as a unit. When you have five Jonathan Scott's on the o-line, you're in trouble. He wasn't even a UDFA. He has bounced around though. No doubt having a good QB makes a huge difference. Big Ben had the advantage of being on an established team, behind an established line, as did Marino. When Matt Ryan was drafted, the Falcons also made sure to get his left tackle in that draft also with their next pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm with you, Bob. For so many fellas around here, every move the Bills make is the wrong one, always. Apparently the Jets were "stupid" too. According the Star Ledger, the Jets made a claim for Young too. Bills were awarded him however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The guy sounds like one who was born to play tackle, excelled in high school at tackle and has not adapted to the pro game at the position he has been playing for eight or nine years at lears. Still I would say he is as good as any of the (second rate) backups we have now. I'm not impressed as I was with the fella from the Patriots, but hey let's wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superb Owl Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The guy sounds like one who was born to play tackle, excelled in high school at tackle and has not adapted to the pro game at the position he has been playing for eight or nine years at lears. Still I would say he is as good as any of the (second rate) backups we have now. I'm not impressed as I was with the fella from the Patriots, but hey let's wait and see. I watched them both and feel opposite of you. Young's punch looks good. Smith looks like he's struggling all the time to get where he needs to be. He definitely tries hard though. Seems like Young could be a guard if he turns out too slow as a tackle, true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Sam Young + Lee Smith = serviceable RT. You just have to leave Smith there on passing plays. Sam Young CAN run block. Hey, plenty of low round picks and free agents become good NFL lineman. The Bills just tried to throw 25 mil at one in Clabo. The Bills may be On to something quite innovative here. They have assembled a bunch of huge offensive linemen who are not particularly gifted athletically. Wood and Levitre and perhaps a still developing Bell being the exceptions. They have also elected to go with TE's who are better blockers than receivers. The Tight ends are designed to help out the Tackles who may never perfect the kick slide. Levitre can move to LT on days when Bell gets beaten by the speed rushers. None of these guys should ever demand top LT money. But in the cold in Buffalo in November and December and perhaps January when you need to run the ball and depend on quick short drops this is an innovative approach that with a great defense and the addition of a Big running back could get you deep into the playoffs. What's missing? a great QB (of course that will always work). how about a great power back Remember when the Redskins destroyed the Bills in the Super bowl with that huge O line and just an average QB? They actually ran all over the whole league that year, If this is what the Bills are thinking then I am all for it. We should see some progress late in the year if it is going to work. We will have to wait a season or two for that power back but we have some ok guys in the meantime. Edited September 7, 2011 by Trader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 5 pages, over 9000 views in 3 hours---about a waived OT. Kickoff can't come soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 FWIW, this NY Giants site cited several scouting sources on Young just before the 2010 draft - the NFL Draft Scout comments are not promising... The highly touted prep athlete served as an effective pass blocker in Charlie Weis' pro-style offense. Despite operating exclusively at right tackle, his lack of foot quickness and flexibility was quickly exposed by the speed of Senior Bowl defensive ends this week. Even worse, at 6-8 he's too tall to move inside to guard. (link) From Nix's comments, it sounds like he agrees that Young is better suited to run-blocking than pass protection, and multiple other scouts have made the same reference as Buddy regarding Young's 'mean streak'. Hope the Bills found a sleeper here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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