San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Alpha is a Fitz hater. No question those two picks but that's what gunslingers do. He gave us a chance to win when nobody thought we could. Short story is Fitzy has earned the r!ght to lead this team and I for one can't wait to see what he can do as the starter with some talent around him. Hey San Jose. Did I read you were a BNY slum? Same here. Early to mid 80s at WBNY. I was at Channel 4 from 85-87. You? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) Alpha is a Fitz hater. No question those two picks but that's what gunslingers do. He gave us a chance to win when nobody thought we could. Short story is Fitzy has earned the r!ght to lead this team and I for one can't wait to see what he can do as the starter with some talent around him. Hey San Jose. Did I read you were a BNY slum? Same here. Typical...so let me get this straight...your only response to the actual facts is that I am a hater? I didn't make his performance up. I didn't make up that he followed up the Balt game by going for 12 TD's and 16 turnovers...I didnt make up his passer rating over those 9 games was 70 or that his accuracy was 56%. I don't hate him at all. I am not a hater, I am a realist about what his season was. Truth is, it was a subpar season made to look spectacular only in comparison to the likes of JP, Trent, and every other recent loser QB we have trotted out. But its very below average when held up against quality QB's around the league in almost every category. For all the hoopla about the one Balt game, a game we lost, he went on to finish the season over the proceeding 9 games poorly. 1/3 of his total TD's over those 9 games came in fluke Cincy game to boot. Case in point, he was one of the lowest rated passers in the NFL in the 9 games following the fabled Balt game. Funny thing is, FJ was one of the leading rushers over the 2nd half of the season once he was the full time starter, yet people still blame a lack of run game as an excuse for Fitz's struggles. Just like with Trent, it's never Fitz's fault...it's always everyone else's fault. I mean its not Fitz fault his comp % was near the bottom of the league, despite the fact its right at his career average well south of 60%...Its not his fault that he had more turnovers than TD's over those final 9 games after the so called defining Balt game despite that it aligns with his career of having more turnovers than TD's (50 TD's and 55 turnovers). This is why I dont get the fascination of the Balt game. One, we lost and he was part of why we lost. Two, Balt weak spot on D was pass defense. Three, it didnt change anything, his numbers over the next 9 games are poor. Four, its one game in comparison to a resume that clearly shows it is not the norm nor to be expected. Believe me, I 100% sincerely hope he becomes the man, I really do. I just won't believe it until he shows me on the field and shows me consistency. Last year was not even close to good enough. If he duplicates last year we won't win 5 games again. While I personally side with Harvey on this one (sorry Dawg), you guys are arguing like it's a black and white thing… which it's not. If it were clear, there wouldn't be this much debate over it. There are about 4 people on this board who still believe that Brian Brohm hasn't been given a fair shake and that he still has a chance to be a starting quality quarterback. But it's not a topic of debate because there are so few people who believe this that it's an issue that's not even contested. The fact that we've steadily churned out hundreds of thousands of words on how good Fitz is or how bad he is clearly demonstrates that there's pretty much an even split of opinion on the matter… and both sides feel passionately about it which I only half understand. Anyways, I'm psyched that Chris Brown is doing this 10-part series and looking forward to more video breakdowns with the coaches. The video quality is excellent too. When I worked at Channel 4, I was down at the stadium with Brian Blessing and we ran into Mark Kelso who actually invited us into the defensive meeting room to watch film. It was an amazing experience… even viewing wide shots (which video cut-ups are) and the grainy video of those days, Kelso could pick up nuances like posture, foot position and all sorts of tendencies and tells. And he could pick them up so quickly. I think with the advent of statistical analysis ventures such as Football Outsiders, Cold, Hard Football Facts, and Pro Football Focus and the increase in the draftnik industry that there is a growing segment of very serious NFL fans who eat this stuff up… for whom traditional NFL coverage is simply not enough. Over the last few years on this board, I've really come to enjoy watching college prospects on video in the run-up to the draft. And I find it very interesting watching coaches cut-ups, especially from Bills games. I'll take stuff like this over watching the clowns in suits walk through plays on the NFL Network set. No worries bro, good post anyway. You don't have to side with me, nor does Harvey or anyone else. And like I said, I want nothing more than for Fitz to come out and light it up this year. I love how he plays the game in terms of guts and grit. I just don't like the inconsistency, inaccuracy, turnovers, and lack of execution when it matters. I just don't hold out much faith based on his body of work and how he performed week in and week out that his ceiling is any higher than last year, and last year was no where good enough to get this team back to the playoffs. Edited June 15, 2011 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) Too bad the only other time he ever did it again was against Cincy where he was absolutely atrocious until Cincy literally lost 50% of their starting secondary and essentially handed us the game on a silver platter after that. So what about all the other games where he was below average or just bad? What did that do to your eyes? I love how an entire career is now built around what he did in one game, against a team who's weakest part of the D was their pass defense, a game he lost in large part because he single handedly gave away our double digit half time lead with two awful INT's, and a game that isn't even remote representative of his week in and week out production. It's one game...hmmm, lets see, how did he build on that one marvelous (losing) game? Well over the next 9 games following that game he had a passer rating of 70, 16 turnovers and just 12 TD's (and FOUR of those TD's came in the ONE Cincy game where he was bailed out by Cincy injuries). Not exactly lighting the league on fire after such an amazing demonstration of his talents against a Balt D who's weak spot was pass defense. You make some good points. Fitz played well at times and not so well at times. Those of us that support him think that the good will outnumber the bad with a year of being the starter through training camp and pre season (if and whenever that is). With a better defense so the offense doesn't have to score as much. With some better OLine play. And another year under his belt. Let's not forget that in one of those last 9 games, he made the game winning play against the eventual AFC Champs in overtime. He played well against some good teams. He also had us in position to win a few more. Sure he made some mistakes in those games. But in the Baltimore game we had a chance til Nelson fumbled. In KC we would have won if our kicker could have made the FG. Pitt if Johnson makes that catch. You always talk about those 9 games. But in those 9 games we were 4-5 as opposed to 0-4 when he was better statistically. The only stat that counts is Ws. Fitz is a gamer and with a little more help could make us winner. He raises the level of the rest of the team. In the last 2 years with Fitz the team has been 9-13 and 1-9 with all others. Speaks volumes to anyone listening. Edited June 15, 2011 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 This is what a losing culture does to a franchise and a fan base... You can have the 4TD, 2INT, and 300+ Yards LOSING effort...where his 2 INT's gave away our double digit lead half time lead for good I prefer the no turnovers, 3 TD, and 250 yard WINNING performance of Flacco I'd prefer that we win every game, he complete every pass and ever 5th pass be a touchdown. But then again, that's not realistic. He had a rating of 106.9 that week. I don't see why that isn't "good enough". Sure, two turnovers don't help at all, but those type of stats will not lose games on a regular basis if the rest of the team plays equally as well. Too bad the only other time he ever did it again was against Cincy where he was absolutely atrocious until Cincy literally lost 50% of their starting secondary and essentially handed us the game on a silver platter after that. So what about all the other games where he was below average or just bad? What did that do to your eyes? I love how an entire career is now built around what he did in one game, against a team who's weakest part of the D was their pass defense, a game he lost in large part because he single handedly gave away our double digit half time lead with two awful INT's, and a game that isn't even remote representative of his week in and week out production. It's one game...hmmm, lets see, how did he build on that one marvelous (losing) game? Well over the next 9 games following that game he had a passer rating of 70, 16 turnovers and just 12 TD's (and FOUR of those TD's came in the ONE Cincy game where he was bailed out by Cincy injuries). Not exactly lighting the league on fire after such an amazing demonstration of his talents against a Balt D who's weak spot was pass defense. Maybe I'm misreading the posts here... but I think most people acknowledge that this was a *good* game by Fitzpatrick and better than how he normally does. Take a breather, man. Just like with Trent, it's never Fitz's fault...it's always everyone else's fault. I mean its not Fitz fault his comp % was near the bottom of the league, despite the fact its right at his career average well south of 60%...Its not his fault that he had more turnovers than TD's over those final 9 games after the so called defining Balt game despite that it aligns with his career of having more turnovers than TD's (50 TD's and 55 turnovers). Whereas I agree, statistically, Fitzpatrick has been pretty mediocre at best... you can't say things like this, but then turn around and don't give him any credit for good games. If you *only* count bad performances for any player, they look incredibly bad. Fitzpatrick, imo, is better than Trent and JP. Is that good enough? Probably not. We don't have the talent on this team to win with a mediocre to possibly good QB. But at the same time, should we release him, tar and feather him, for doing the job he's been asked to do? Your call I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishmonger Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Too bad the only other time he ever did it again was against Cincy where he was absolutely atrocious until Cincy literally lost 50% of their starting secondary and essentially handed us the game on a silver platter after that. The cool thing about the Cincy game is that their secondary got three guys baged up, all trying to put a shot on Freddy. That was sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'd prefer that we win every game, he complete every pass and ever 5th pass be a touchdown. But then again, that's not realistic. He had a rating of 106.9 that week. I don't see why that isn't "good enough". Sure, two turnovers don't help at all, but those type of stats will not lose games on a regular basis if the rest of the team plays equally as well. Maybe I'm misreading the posts here... but I think most people acknowledge that this was a *good* game by Fitzpatrick and better than how he normally does. Take a breather, man. Whereas I agree, statistically, Fitzpatrick has been pretty mediocre at best... you can't say things like this, but then turn around and don't give him any credit for good games. If you *only* count bad performances for any player, they look incredibly bad. Fitzpatrick, imo, is better than Trent and JP. Is that good enough? Probably not. We don't have the talent on this team to win with a mediocre to possibly good QB. But at the same time, should we release him, tar and feather him, for doing the job he's been asked to do? Your call I guess. I hear ya, and I do give him credit for his good traits and his good games. Like I said, I like the guy and the positives he brings by the way he leads and plays with guts and grit. The problem I have is when people take a game like Balt, a losing effort, and now create some kind of folklore about the guy as if he went on to have a great season. And yes, there are many supporters arguing how great his season was and how his flaws are everyone else's fault. I am not trying to say Balt was not a good effort by him, but I am also not the ones trying to turn the Balt game into some legendary game, a game we lost where he contributed to that loss. Everyone remember Frank Reich? In the playoffs, he led the single greatest NFL comeback of all time for us while going 12 for 16 with 3 TD's and 260 yards in the 2nd half. I think we can pretty much all agree this was not the norm for Frank Reich, yet he still did it. Fitz comes out and goes way outside his norm and puts up gaudy stats against Balt and people elevate him up to be more than he is because of this game...a player he was not before that game, and a player he was not for the most part in the 9 games following Balt to end the season. I am just tired of hearing about one game, one we lost that he factored into that loss, as if it erases the rest of the season where he was below average or out right bad in the majority of his games. He is still light years better than Trent, no denying that, but being better than Trent does not mean it was good enough. Its all good though, I hope the lockout ends and we have a season so he gets the chance to prove the doubters wrong. I would love nothing more than to see him do that, I just don't have much faith he will based on the body of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 My take on Fitz, once and for all: -- better intangibles (leadership, guts, respect of his teammates) than any Buffalo QB since Flutie -- may have more intelligence than ANY prior Buffalo QB -- better skills than MOST give him credit for (agility, adequate arm strength) -- weakness seems primarily to be accuracy, which leads to incompletions and turnovers (Fitz has also acknowledged throwing into some spots he shouldn't because he was trying to make a play) We can look at the stats from last year and debate all day long. He had some good games, and he had some bad games. But is there any dispute he's the best leader the offense has seen in the past ten years? Perhaps Bledsoe had "it" for half a season, but otherwise, Fitz is better than anything we've had -- and it's not really close. Perhaps this is why a lot of folks are really rooting for him to take the next step -- we've seen such crappy QB play for a decade, and even a spark of competence gets our mouths watering. What is Fitz not? He's not a prototypical franchise QB. His career stats thus far are mediocre. He has also had, for the most part, crappy teams around him. At least to me, the difference between Fitz and all those other middle-of-the-road QBs floating around the league is that Fitz has had legitimate moments where it looks like he could really get the job done. I also believe it's easy to underestimate what it means to a guy like Fitz to get the vote of confidence as a starter before training camp even begins. In any event, none of us have a crystal ball and I'm not predicting greatness for Fitz. I will, however, be surprised if we don't see "good"ness out of him. He does not possess any of the critical flaws that doomed all of the Bills' prior QBs of the decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 A lot of people want to call Fitz a "caretaker" of the offense like Trent Dilfer was....I actually propose that Fitz is a better QB then Dilfer was - His scrambling ability and escapability is EXTREMELY under rated (but one of the reasons why i feel we need a vet back up is he does take chances - For all of the comments about his lack of cannon.....he does in fact through the intermediate pass pretty darn well....with a lot of zip - One of his real strengths is his ability to throw a pass to a spot BEFORE the wr comes out of his break......that is a real talent folks - One of his "Strength but Weakness" areas is his willingness to try to make a play.....its no guts no glory in the NFL.....but sometimes you will look great and sometimes you will look a fool. The question is does he forget about it right away like a good QB needs to do or does he brood about it on the bench......looks good to me here - He is a true leader....and you can see this in the huddle....at the line of scrimmage.....he has control of it out there and you can sense the swagger....his team mates stand up for him at every turn....JIM KELLY himself said that we did not need a QB. I think we really all need to just sit tight and see what happens this season.....this team could make a wild card if - The defense improves immediately......and it could....this was a defensive heavy draft and frankly they have cut some dead weight from last year. Not to mention we got hit really hard by injury on the defensive side of the ball. - Wide receiver core with the exception of Evans is VERY young....and we also have players who looked like keepers get injured - Dont discount the addition of Dave W. on defense - Chan with another year of installing his offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 At this point there's little more anybody can say about this debate. Both sides have some facts on their side. And I doubt anyone is going to change his mind until the games start. It's really not going to be decided until we see how Fitz plays this season. I expect we'll know one way or the other by December. Though there are still people ready to fight the Flutie/Johnson war. I think I'll lay off reading all this stuff until the bullets start flying again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 As much as Flacco outplayed him, I'd still take a 4TD, 2INT, 300+yrd passing day any week. Not when you blow the game away with those dumb plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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